On Wed, Oct 1, 2014 at 3:32 PM, Bruno Marchal <marc...@ulb.ac.be> wrote:
> > On 01 Oct 2014, at 12:35, Quentin Anciaux wrote: > > > > 2014-10-01 9:09 GMT+02:00 Telmo Menezes <te...@telmomenezes.com>: > >> >> >> On 30 Sep 2014, at 19:32, John Clark <johnkcl...@gmail.com> wrote: >> >> >> >> On Sun, Sep 28, 2014 at 1:04 PM, Bruno Marchal <marc...@ulb.ac.be> wrote: >> >>> >> Computationalism is the theory that the human brain is a computer, a >>> type information processing machine, and it postulates that thinking is a >>> form of computing. But you can't have a brain or a computer or a machine of >>> any sort without matter. >>> >>> > Computer have been discovered in arithmetic. Gödel was close in his >>> 1931 paper, but missed it, but then it is clear in Post, Church, Turing >>> paper. Turing made his machine looking more "physical" but it is still a >>> purely mathematical objects, and computations are too. >>> >> >> So over the last few decades was it a big waste of time and money to >> spend trillions of dollars and millions of man-hours to make computers out >> of matter? I don't think so. Maybe computers really do exist in some sort >> of ethereal Platonic abstract plane, maybe they're real but apparently >> they're not quite real enough to get the job done here on planet Earth. >> >> > You don't need the notion of matter in computer science, unless you are >>> interested in the implementation of computer in some physical reality. Then >>> you need some physics to define what this means. But this does not mean >>> that physics is primary. >>> >> >> As I've said no natural phenomenon has ever been found where nature must >> solve a NP-hard problem to figure out what to do next, >> >> >> Protein folding? >> > > He uses anyway a bad example, > > > We can agree on this. > Indeed. > > > NP-hard problem are computable... > > > Yes. > > > > they just take exponential time to solve. > > > Assuming that P ≠ NP, which is indeed judged very plausible by all > experts (but not all) in the field, but remains still unproved today. It is > as you know a famous open problem. > This is why I find protein folding intriguing. I see the following possibilities: -> Molecular interactions entail an immense computational power; -> P = NP; -> We are constantly winning at quantum suicide. Am I missing something? Telmo. > Bruno > > > > > > We were talking about non-computable problems, and nature could use > unknown non-computable things for consciousness that would render > computationalism false. > > Quentin > > > >> >> if the so called real numbers are really real I find it difficult to >> understand why that is the case. >> >> John K Clark >> >> >> >> >> >> >>> >>> >> -- >> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups >> "Everything List" group. >> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an >> email to everything-list+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. >> To post to this group, send email to everything-list@googlegroups.com. >> Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/everything-list. >> For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout. >> >> >> -- >> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups >> "Everything List" group. >> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an >> email to everything-list+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. >> To post to this group, send email to everything-list@googlegroups.com. >> Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/everything-list. >> For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout. >> > > > > -- > All those moments will be lost in time, like tears in rain. (Roy > Batty/Rutger Hauer) > > -- > You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups > "Everything List" group. > To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an > email to everything-list+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. > To post to this group, send email to everything-list@googlegroups.com. > Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/everything-list. > For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout. > > > http://iridia.ulb.ac.be/~marchal/ > > > > -- > You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups > "Everything List" group. > To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an > email to everything-list+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. > To post to this group, send email to everything-list@googlegroups.com. > Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/everything-list. > For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout. > -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "Everything List" group. 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