On Tue, Apr 7, 2015 Telmo Menezes te...@telmomenezes.com
<te...@telmomenezes.com>> wrote:
> >> Who is traveling through time in a forward direction, Mr. John Clark or
>> Mr. John Clark The Helsinki Man?
>>
>
> > Have you ever met anyone who doesn't feel like they are travelling
> through time in a forward direction?
>
Yes, somebody who is one instant away from death . And now that I have
answered you question I repeat my question that you dodged: Who is
traveling through time in a forward direction, Mr. John Clark or Mr. John
Clark The Helsinki Man?
> >>> many worlds or duplicating machines you have to specify which "Telmo
>> Menezes" or which "you" in the exact same way.
>
>
>> >> No it is not exactly the same way. With copying machines John Clark
>> can see 6.02 *10^23 Telmo Menezes running around and has no idea which one
>> is Mr. You,
>>
>
> > They will all believe to be Telmo,
>
I know, so if just before the multiple duplications John Clark predicted
that "you" will see X how could it be determined which one of the 6.02
*10^23 is Mr. You so we could ask Mr, You if he did really did see X and
figure out if John Clark's prediction was correct?
> >> but in Many Worlds it is dictated by the laws of physics that John
>> Clark can see only one Telmo Menezes, and human language need not be made
>> more precise than the laws of physics.
>>
>
> > I don't see how the laws of physics prevent the possibility of another
> chunk of matter being configured in the exact same way as I am.
>
Obviously the laws of physics don't prevent it, that's why I said that
matter duplicating machines don't need new science just very good
engineering. But every one of those copies that the machine has made exist
in the same universe and are visible to all. But if the Many Worlds
interpretation is correct and if the laws of physics are what we think they
are then I can never observe any of those other John Clark's or anything
else in those other universes.
And I think you were being disingenuous, I think you already understood all
of this perfectly well.
>> What good does that do? We're in Moscow now and John Clark The Moscow
>> Man didn't write that diary, John Clark The Helsinki Man did and John Clark
>> Helsinki Man no longer exists.
>>
>
> > Why do you write emails?
>
Because I remember writing them of course just as The M-Man and the W-Man
remember being the H-man.
> > what I said is that investigating the specific scenario of duplication
> to another position is a useful device used by the thought experiment
>
The exact same points could be made if everybody stayed in Helsinki but one
copy watched a video about Moscow and the other watched a video about
Washington. Information is what turns the Helsinki man into the Moscow Man
not a change in position.
> > You may criticize the clarity of the language in the paper. I don't
> think anyone ever accused Bruno of being unquirky in his English,
>
It has nothing to do with that! The problem is that neither Telmo nor Bruno
can get over the lifetime habit of effortlessly using personal pronouns
without thinking, not even when the subject is the nature of personal
identity; the result being neither realizes that posts on that subject
contain nothing but tautologies and circular logic.
> > you are the only one who doesn't understand step 3.
>
A slight correction, I am the only one who understands that there is
nothing to understand in step 3. And Telmo, peer pressure is never going to
make me think Bruno is right, only logic can do that and I haven't seen
much of that around here.
> > The other part that you always leave out is that, if you ask the
> Helsinki man to predict what he [...]
>
^^
And we've come full circle and we're right back at square one again. Is Mr.
He John Clark or is Mr. He John Clark The Helsinki man?
John K Clark
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