"No compulsion" when the choice is between Heaven and Hell - and on the basis of something we can't remember having done...? Let's try that in a non-religious context. "But, m'lud, I warned the victim that I was going to murder him if he went through with his planned visit to Midsomer - and then I erased his memory of our meeting. So clearly his murder is all his fault, and not mine." I'm not sure the defence would get very far on that basis.
If it was proved beyond reasonable doubt that God and Heaven and Hell really do exist, then no rational agent would choose NOT to worship God, as Pascal pointed out. But the idea that despite having no sensible knowledge on which to base his or her decisions, it's still the victim's fault if he fails to avoid Hell, is the logic of a psychopath. "Now look what you made me do!" he says as he tortures you. On 30 May 2015 at 13:11, Samiya Illias <samiyaill...@gmail.com> wrote: > > > On 29-May-2015, at 5:41 pm, Stathis Papaioannou <stath...@gmail.com> > wrote: > > > > On Saturday, May 30, 2015, Samiya Illias <samiyaill...@gmail.com> wrote: > >> >> >> On Fri, May 29, 2015 at 7:33 AM, LizR <lizj...@gmail.com> wrote: >> >>> On 29 May 2015 at 16:34, Samiya Illias <samiyaill...@gmail.com> wrote: >>> >>>> If we do not make the necessary effort, we will end up in the Fire due >>>> to our own negligence. >>>> >>> >>> That is known as "victim blaming". It's the psychology of a sadist - the >>> same as the rapist's "she was asking for it". >>> >> >> That's a horrible analogy! >> Consider the following verses: >> >> http://quran.com/7/35-36 O children of Adam, if there come to you >> messengers from among you relating to you My verses, then whoever fears >> Allah and reforms - there will be no fear concerning them, nor will they >> grieve. But the ones who deny Our verses and are arrogant toward them - >> those are the companions of the Fire; they will abide therein eternally. >> > > Morally, how do you justify punishment for not believing something? You > may be foolish if you believe the wrong thing, but not bad. In this > respect, God's morals seem inferior to humans'. > > > If you read the verses 7/172-174 quoted below in my previous email, it > states that God made us testify that He is our Lord. I think this can > probably be understood in terms of the consciousness discussion that has > been going on in other threads. Though we do not remember this, however > according to these verses, we did at one time testify to it -- much before > being sent to this world. At another place in the Quran, God states that He > has created us as His 'ibaad' meaning slaves. That means that we submit > only to God and to nothing else, that we serve Him alone. And at another > place, it states that there is no compulsion in religion, hence whoever > wishes can strive for a beautiful future, and whoever rejects is > forewarned. I see life in this world some thing like a quality control, of > being plugged into the Matrix, and striving to improve our reality. > > Samiya > > > >> http://quran.com/7/172-174 And [mention] when your Lord took from the >> children of Adam - from their loins - their descendants and made them >> testify of themselves, [saying to them], "Am I not your Lord?" They said, >> "Yes, we have testified." [This] - lest you should say on the day of >> Resurrection, "Indeed, we were of this unaware." Or [lest] you say, "It was >> only that our fathers associated [others in worship] with Allah before, and >> we were but descendants after them. Then would You destroy us for what the >> falsifiers have done?" And thus do We [explain in] detail the verses, and >> perhaps they will return. >> >> http://quran.com/16/70-77 And Allah created you; then He will take you >> in death. And among you is he who is reversed to the most decrepit [old] >> age so that he will not know, after [having had] knowledge, a thing. >> Indeed, Allah is Knowing and Competent. And Allah has favored some of you >> over others in provision. But those who were favored would not hand over >> their provision to those whom their right hands possess so they would be >> equal to them therein. Then is it the favor of Allah they reject? And Allah >> has made for you from yourselves mates and has made for you from your mates >> sons and grandchildren and has provided for you from the good things. Then >> in falsehood do they believe and in the favor of Allah they disbelieve? And >> they worship besides Allah that which does not possess for them [the power >> of] provision from the heavens and the earth at all, and [in fact], they >> are unable. So do not assert similarities to Allah . Indeed, Allah knows >> and you do not know. Allah presents an example: a slave [who is] owned and >> unable to do a thing and he to whom We have provided from Us good >> provision, so he spends from it secretly and publicly. Can they be equal? >> Praise to Allah ! But most of them do not know. And Allah presents an >> example of two men, one of them dumb and unable to do a thing, while he is >> a burden to his guardian. Wherever he directs him, he brings no good. Is he >> equal to one who commands justice, while he is on a straight path? And to >> Allah belongs the unseen [aspects] of the heavens and the earth. And the >> command for the Hour is not but as a glance of the eye or even nearer. >> Indeed, Allah is over all things competent. >> >> Samiya >> >>> >>> -- >>> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google >>> Groups "Everything List" group. >>> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send >>> an email to everything-list+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. >>> To post to this group, send email to everything-list@googlegroups.com. >>> Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/everything-list. >>> For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout. >>> >> >> -- >> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups >> "Everything List" group. >> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an >> email to everything-list+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. >> To post to this group, send email to everything-list@googlegroups.com. >> Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/everything-list. >> For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout. >> > > > -- > Stathis Papaioannou > > -- > You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups > "Everything List" group. > To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an > email to everything-list+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. > To post to this group, send email to everything-list@googlegroups.com. > Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/everything-list. > For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout. > > -- > You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups > "Everything List" group. > To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an > email to everything-list+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. > To post to this group, send email to everything-list@googlegroups.com. > Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/everything-list. > For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout. > -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "Everything List" group. 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