Well, I am not supporting that "life is an illusion," sort of thing, because
simply put, if one drops a hammer on one's toes, the pain is still there,
whether the "world" is real or not. What I suggest is that it's a great
computation, maybe a simulation, maybe the "real" combined with a sim, maybe
something we do not have a term for as yet?* Certainly, if you gather ideas
from physicists and philosophers over at the FQXI website (Funded by the
Templeton Foundation) who come up with very esoteric ideas that somehow sound
convincing, to me.
The old religious guys of centuries ago did their best. However, their beliefs
that they met with angels in caves or God on a mountain top, seem less likely
to me. In fact, for me, the more plausible God and angels now seem, the less
likely the old guys actually met with somebody real. Instead of God I could say
Mind, and instead of angels, I could say AI's/software personalities, the soul
becomes a mind clone, etc.
*The universe looks more like a great thought then a great machine."
-Physicist, James Jeans.
And, philosophers of science like John Leslie, many great thoughts, many great
machines, maybe at some point these become the same, depending on who is
thinking, such...thoughts.
-----Original Message-----
From: Samiya Illias <samiyaill...@gmail.com>
To: everything-list <everything-list@googlegroups.com>
Sent: Sat, May 30, 2015 5:11 pm
Subject: Re: Samiya proved right
That is the analogy I also used to understand and explain with some years ago.
It helps to make sense of it.
However, the Quran states that it has been created in Truth / Reality, hence I
hesitate to use that analogy.
Samiya
On 31-May-2015, at 1:13 am, spudboy100 via Everything List <
everything-list@googlegroups.com> wrote:
Well, it sort of sabotaged technological progress for what was then
excellent, progress. It's a reasonable thing to say, the we need God and He
doesn't need us. However, just by the way the world works, the lack of cause
and effect in personal lives, disease, earthquakes, etc. I make no claims about
God. It might be a better neutral way to describe God as a Mind, and worry
about how we think about it later. This is probably trivial and shallow, but I
try to look at things from the purely human point of view-however miserable and
flawed humans are. Moreover, I see the universe as increasingly looking like a
great program, or a simulation. Thus, the actually cosmology of the astronomers
becomes a secondary thing, because no matter what it's shape or age, it all
functions like a computation.
-----Original Message-----
From: Samiya Illias < samiyaill...@gmail.com>
To: everything-list < everything-list@googlegroups.com>
Sent: Sat, May 30, 2015 1:05 pm
Subject: Re: Samiya proved right
On 30-May-2015, at 6:38 pm, spudboy100 via Everything List <
everything-list@googlegroups.com> wrote:
Here is what stopped Islamic science of 900 years ago. Insh Allah,
Ma'shallah! God wills, as god wills! This solves everything, so why study
things further. Allah is in control of it all. All is me'toub! Fated by Allah.
So studying how photosynthesis works, or what the moon is made from. The moon
is made of stone and created by Allah-so what more do we need to know. All is
in Allah's hands, and He is the best judge to know!
And thus Muslim civilisation suffered the consequence of not heeding to the
repeated advise in the Quran to contemplate on nature and use intelligence.
Please, I repeat, the beliefs of Muslims or people of any faith for that
matter, will not serve as an excuse for any of us. We will all be judged
individually. God doesn't need us, we need God.
Samiya
-----Original Message-----
From: Samiya Illias < samiyaill...@gmail.com>
To: everything-list < everything-list@googlegroups.com>
Sent: Sat, May 30, 2015 11:24 am
Subject: Re: Samiya proved right
God created humans and knows everything about us and within us. I'm sure there
will be no injustice done to anybody.
The analogies you give are between humans. We do not know our own selves:
subconscious, composition details, thoughts, mind, etc. , let alone claiming to
know another human. We cannot apply that reasoning to the One who created us,
sustains us and is aware of everything manifest and hidden throughout the
heavens and earth.
Samiya
On 30-May-2015, at 4:42 am, LizR < lizj...@gmail.com> wrote:
"No compulsion" when the choice is between Heaven and Hell - and on the basis
of something we can't remember having done...? Let's try that in a
non-religious context. "But, m'lud, I warned the victim that I was going to
murder him if he went through with his planned visit to Midsomer - and then I
erased his memory of our meeting. So clearly his murder is all his fault, and
not mine." I'm not sure the defence would get very far on that basis.
If it was proved beyond reasonable doubt that God and Heaven and Hell really
do exist, then no rational agent would choose NOT to worship God, as Pascal
pointed out. But the idea that despite having no sensible knowledge on which to
base his or her decisions, it's still the victim's fault if he fails to avoid
Hell, is the logic of a psychopath. "Now look what you made me do!" he says as
he tortures you.
On 30 May 2015 at 13:11, Samiya Illias
<samiyaill...@gmail.com> wrote:
On 29-May-2015, at 5:41 pm, Stathis Papaioannou <
stath...@gmail.com> wrote:
On Saturday, May 30, 2015, Samiya Illias <
samiyaill...@gmail.com> wrote:
On Fri, May 29, 2015 at 7:33 AM, LizR
<lizj...@gmail.com> wrote:
On 29 May 2015 at 16:34, Samiya Illias
<samiyaill...@gmail.com> wrote:
If we do not make the necessary effort, we
will end up in the Fire due to our own negligence.
That is known as "victim blaming". It's the psychology of a sadist - the same
as the rapist's "she was asking for it".
That's a horrible analogy!
Consider the following verses:
http://quran.com/7/35-36 O children of Adam, if
there come to you messengers from among you relating to you My verses, then
whoever fears Allah and reforms - there will be no fear concerning them, nor
will they grieve. But the ones who deny Our verses and are arrogant toward them
- those are the companions of the Fire; they will abide therein eternally.
Morally, how do you justify punishment for not believing something? You may be
foolish if you believe the wrong thing, but not bad. In this respect, God's
morals seem inferior to humans'.
If you read the verses 7/172-174 quoted below in my previous email, it states
that God made us testify that He is our Lord. I think this can probably be
understood in terms of the consciousness discussion that has been going on in
other threads. Though we do not remember this, however according to these
verses, we did at one time testify to it -- much before being sent to this
world. At another place in the Quran, God states that He has created us as His
'ibaad' meaning slaves. That means that we submit only to God and to nothing
else, that we serve Him alone. And at another place, it states that there is no
compulsion in religion, hence whoever wishes can strive for a beautiful future,
and whoever rejects is forewarned. I see life in this world some thing like a
quality control, of being plugged into the Matrix, and striving to improve our
reality.
Samiya
http://quran.com/7/172-174 And [mention] when
your Lord took from the children of Adam - from their loins - their descendants
and made them testify of themselves, [saying to them], "Am I not your Lord?"
They said, "Yes, we have testified." [This] - lest you should say on the day of
Resurrection, "Indeed, we were of this unaware." Or [lest] you say, "It was
only that our fathers associated [others in worship] with Allah before, and we
were but descendants after them. Then would You destroy us for what the
falsifiers have done?" And thus do We [explain in] detail the verses, and
perhaps they will return.
http://quran.com/16/70-77 And Allah created you;
then He will take you in death. And among you is he who is reversed to the most
decrepit [old] age so that he will not know, after [having had] knowledge, a
thing. Indeed, Allah is Knowing and Competent. And Allah has favored some of
you over others in provision. But those who were favored would not hand over
their provision to those whom their right hands possess so they would be equal
to them therein. Then is it the favor of Allah they reject? And Allah has made
for you from yourselves mates and has made for you from your mates sons and
grandchildren and has provided for you from the good things. Then in falsehood
do they believe and in the favor of Allah they disbelieve? And they worship
besides Allah that which does not possess for them [the power of] provision
from the heavens and the earth at all, and [in fact], they are unable. So do
not assert similarities to Allah . Indeed, Allah knows and you do not know.
Allah presents an example: a slave [who is] owned and unable to do a thing and
he to whom We have provided from Us good provision, so he spends from it
secretly and publicly. Can they be equal? Praise to Allah ! But most of them do
not know. And Allah presents an example of two men, one of them dumb and unable
to do a thing, while he is a burden to his guardian. Wherever he directs him,
he brings no good. Is he equal to one who commands justice, while he is on a
straight path? And to Allah belongs the unseen [aspects] of the heavens and the
earth. And the command for the Hour is not but as a glance of the eye or even
nearer. Indeed, Allah is over all things competent.
Samiya
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