On 02 Jun 2015, at 04:18, Samiya Illias wrote:
On Sat, May 30, 2015 at 10:05 PM, Samiya Illias <samiyaill...@gmail.com
> wrote:
On 30-May-2015, at 6:38 pm, spudboy100 via Everything List <everything-list@googlegroups.com
> wrote:
Here is what stopped Islamic science of 900 years ago. Insh Allah,
Ma'shallah! God wills, as god wills! This solves everything, so why
study things further. Allah is in control of it all. All is
me'toub! Fated by Allah. So studying how photosynthesis works, or
what the moon is made from. The moon is made of stone and created
by Allah-so what more do we need to know. All is in Allah's hands,
and He is the best judge to know!
And thus Muslim civilisation suffered the consequence of not heeding
to the repeated advise in the Quran to contemplate on nature and use
intelligence.
Just as contemplation and use of intelligence is advised in the
Quran, so also is it advised to say 'In Sha Allah'. I understand the
'In Sha Allah' [if God wills] and 'Ma Sha Allah' [as God willed] as
a reminder to keep us mindful of the Uncertainty Principle, in that
it applies not only to the quantum level, but cascades on to
everything. Saying 'In Sha Allah' and 'Ma Sha Allah' reminds us that
no matter how earnestly we resolve to do something or how hard we
tried, the decision is always with Allah. In this temporal realm, we
can only 'choose' to try to do or not do something, however whether
we are able to do it or not, and the outcome of our efforts, is
determined and decreed by God.
Imagine you convince everybody of this. Then you will convince also
the percentage of human having sadical pulse (for a reason or
another). So there is a risk that those people believing everything is
decreed by God will interpret their sadical pulse as God anger and
willingfulness to punish.
You get the Ghengis Khan phenomena, who would have said, after having
been asked why he raped, tortured and burned a whole land, "---I don't
know what those people committed, but I am sure they committed a very
great sin for God sending me as a punishment.
What you say is again of the type G* \ G. I think. It is true, but
once said: it becomes false, and that is a break where the devil can
play.
This helps to keep us going even when things don't seem to turn out
right, as we are assured that all efforts are being recorded and
will be compensated in the Hereafter. I suppose one way to
understand it is in terms of a software whose designer codes in all
outcomes, and the results, though based on user-choices, are already
coded in by the designer. The designer is always in full control and
the decision is always as the designer designed it.
To make sense of God, you need to be careful as omniscience is by
itself already contradictory (I can give references).
If not you will get a God capable of making 2 odd, and that's too odd!
I suppose I should acknowledge here that, I do find, on the personal
level, God's help and facilitation of matters that seem
insurmountable to me, yet stating 'In Sha Allah' [if God wills] in
earnestness makes the matter easy and manageable. Alhamdolillah [All
Praise and Thanks to God]
Good.
God is good for personal use only.
Only those who lack faith try to convince or eliminate the others.
Bruno
Ma Sha Allah: http://corpus.quran.com/qurandictionary.jsp?q=
$yA#(5:48:31)
In Sha Allah: http://quran.com/18/23-24
Samiya
Please, I repeat, the beliefs of Muslims or people of any faith for
that matter, will not serve as an excuse for any of us. We will all
be judged individually. God doesn't need us, we need God.
Samiya
-----Original Message-----
From: Samiya Illias <samiyaill...@gmail.com>
To: everything-list <everything-list@googlegroups.com>
Sent: Sat, May 30, 2015 11:24 am
Subject: Re: Samiya proved right
God created humans and knows everything about us and within us. I'm
sure there will be no injustice done to anybody.
The analogies you give are between humans. We do not know our own
selves: subconscious, composition details, thoughts, mind, etc. ,
let alone claiming to know another human. We cannot apply that
reasoning to the One who created us, sustains us and is aware of
everything manifest and hidden throughout the heavens and earth.
Samiya
On 30-May-2015, at 4:42 am, LizR < lizj...@gmail.com> wrote:
"No compulsion" when the choice is between Heaven and Hell - and on
the basis of something we can't remember having done...? Let's try
that in a non-religious context. "But, m'lud, I warned the victim
that I was going to murder him if he went through with his planned
visit to Midsomer - and then I erased his memory of our meeting. So
clearly his murder is all his fault, and not mine." I'm not sure
the defence would get very far on that basis.
If it was proved beyond reasonable doubt that God and Heaven and
Hell really do exist, then no rational agent would choose NOT to
worship God, as Pascal pointed out. But the idea that despite
having no sensible knowledge on which to base his or her decisions,
it's still the victim's fault if he fails to avoid Hell, is the
logic of a psychopath. "Now look what you made me do!" he says as
he tortures you.
On 30 May 2015 at 13:11, Samiya Illias <samiyaill...@gmail.com>
wrote:
On 29-May-2015, at 5:41 pm, Stathis Papaioannou <
stath...@gmail.com> wrote:
On Saturday, May 30, 2015, Samiya Illias < samiyaill...@gmail.com>
wrote:
On Fri, May 29, 2015 at 7:33 AM, LizR <lizj...@gmail.com> wrote:
On 29 May 2015 at 16:34, Samiya Illias <samiyaill...@gmail.com>
wrote:
If we do not make the necessary effort, we will end up in the Fire
due to our own negligence.
That is known as "victim blaming". It's the psychology of a sadist
- the same as the rapist's "she was asking for it".
That's a horrible analogy!
Consider the following verses:
http://quran.com/7/35-36 O children of Adam, if there come to you
messengers from among you relating to you My verses, then whoever
fears Allah and reforms - there will be no fear concerning them,
nor will they grieve. But the ones who deny Our verses and are
arrogant toward them - those are the companions of the Fire; they
will abide therein eternally.
Morally, how do you justify punishment for not believing something?
You may be foolish if you believe the wrong thing, but not bad. In
this respect, God's morals seem inferior to humans'.
If you read the verses 7/172-174 quoted below in my previous email,
it states that God made us testify that He is our Lord. I think
this can probably be understood in terms of the consciousness
discussion that has been going on in other threads. Though we do
not remember this, however according to these verses, we did at one
time testify to it -- much before being sent to this world. At
another place in the Quran, God states that He has created us as
His 'ibaad' meaning slaves. That means that we submit only to God
and to nothing else, that we serve Him alone. And at another place,
it states that there is no compulsion in religion, hence whoever
wishes can strive for a beautiful future, and whoever rejects is
forewarned. I see life in this world some thing like a quality
control, of being plugged into the Matrix, and striving to improve
our reality.
Samiya
http://quran.com/7/172-174 And [mention] when your Lord took from
the children of Adam - from their loins - their descendants and
made them testify of themselves, [saying to them], "Am I not your
Lord?" They said, "Yes, we have testified." [This] - lest you
should say on the day of Resurrection, "Indeed, we were of this
unaware." Or [lest] you say, "It was only that our fathers
associated [others in worship] with Allah before, and we were but
descendants after them. Then would You destroy us for what the
falsifiers have done?" And thus do We [explain in] detail the
verses, and perhaps they will return.
http://quran.com/16/70-77 And Allah created you; then He will take
you in death. And among you is he who is reversed to the most
decrepit [old] age so that he will not know, after [having had]
knowledge, a thing. Indeed, Allah is Knowing and Competent. And
Allah has favored some of you over others in provision. But those
who were favored would not hand over their provision to those whom
their right hands possess so they would be equal to them therein.
Then is it the favor of Allah they reject? And Allah has made for
you from yourselves mates and has made for you from your mates sons
and grandchildren and has provided for you from the good things.
Then in falsehood do they believe and in the favor of Allah they
disbelieve? And they worship besides Allah that which does not
possess for them [the power of] provision from the heavens and the
earth at all, and [in fact], they are unable. So do not assert
similarities to Allah . Indeed, Allah knows and you do not know.
Allah presents an example: a slave [who is] owned and unable to do
a thing and he to whom We have provided from Us good provision, so
he spends from it secretly and publicly. Can they be equal? Praise
to Allah ! But most of them do not know. And Allah presents an
example of two men, one of them dumb and unable to do a thing,
while he is a burden to his guardian. Wherever he directs him, he
brings no good. Is he equal to one who commands justice, while he
is on a straight path? And to Allah belongs the unseen [aspects] of
the heavens and the earth. And the command for the Hour is not but
as a glance of the eye or even nearer. Indeed, Allah is over all
things competent.
Samiya
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