Twas brillig
as slithey toves
did gyre and gimble in the wabe
all mimsy
were the borogroves
as the ramprats
outgrabe







 

 

 

-----Original Message-----
From: LizR <lizj...@gmail.com>
To: everything-list <everything-list@googlegroups.com>
Sent: Fri, May 29, 2015 9:42 pm
Subject: Re: Samiya proved right


 
  
"No compulsion" when the choice is between Heaven and Hell - and on the basis 
of something we can't remember having done...? Let's try that in a 
non-religious context. "But, m'lud, I warned the victim that I was going to 
murder him if he went through with his planned visit to Midsomer - and then I 
erased his memory of our meeting. So clearly his murder is all his fault, and 
not mine." I'm not sure the defence would get very far on that basis.   
   
  
If it was proved beyond reasonable doubt that God and Heaven and Hell really do 
exist, then no rational agent would choose NOT to worship God, as Pascal 
pointed out. But the idea that despite having no sensible knowledge on which to 
base his or her decisions, it's still the victim's fault if he fails to avoid 
Hell, is the logic of a psychopath. "Now look what you made me do!" he says as 
he tortures you.  
  
 
 
  
  
On 30 May 2015 at 13:11, Samiya Illias    <samiyaill...@gmail.com> wrote:   
   
    
           
       
      
      
       
On 29-May-2015, at 5:41 pm, Stathis Papaioannou <       stath...@gmail.com> 
wrote:       
       
      
      
       
        
        
On Saturday, May 30, 2015, Samiya Illias <        samiyaill...@gmail.com> 
wrote:        
        
         
          
          
           
           
On Fri, May 29, 2015 at 7:33 AM, LizR             <lizj...@gmail.com> wrote:    
        
            
             
              
               
                On 29 May 2015 at 16:34, Samiya Illias <samiyaill...@gmail.com> 
wrote:
                 
                  
                   
                    
                     If we do not make the necessary effort, we will end up in 
the Fire due to our own negligence.                    
                   
                  
                 
                 
                  
                 
                
That is known as "victim blaming". It's the psychology of a sadist - the same 
as the rapist's "she was asking for it".                  
                
               
              
             
            
            
             
            
            
That's a horrible analogy!             
            
Consider the following verses:             
            
             
            
            
             http://quran.com/7/35-36 O children of Adam, if there come to you 
messengers from among you relating to you My verses, then whoever fears Allah 
and reforms - there will be no fear concerning them, nor will they grieve. But 
the ones who deny Our verses and are arrogant toward them - those are the 
companions of the Fire; they will abide therein eternally.            
           
          
         
        
        
         
        
        
Morally, how do you justify punishment for not believing something? You may be 
foolish if you believe the wrong thing, but not bad. In this respect, God's 
morals seem inferior to humans'.         
       
      
      
       
      
If you read the verses 7/172-174 quoted below in my previous email, it states 
that God made us testify that He is our Lord. I think this can probably be 
understood in terms of the consciousness discussion that has been going on in 
other threads. Though we do not remember this, however according to these 
verses, we did at one time testify to it -- much before being sent to this 
world. At another place in the Quran, God states that He has created us as His 
'ibaad' meaning slaves. That means that we submit only to God and to nothing 
else, that we serve Him alone. And at another place, it states that there is no 
compulsion in religion, hence whoever wishes can strive for a beautiful future, 
and whoever rejects is forewarned. I see life in this world some thing like a 
quality control, of being plugged into the Matrix, and striving to improve our 
reality.             
        
       
       
Samiya        
     
      
       
        
        
         
          
                     
          
           
          
           
            
             
              
               http://quran.com/7/172-174 And [mention] when your Lord took 
from the children of Adam - from their loins - their descendants and made them 
testify of themselves, [saying to them], "Am I not your Lord?" They said, "Yes, 
we have testified." [This] - lest you should say on the day of Resurrection, 
"Indeed, we were of this unaware." Or [lest] you say, "It was only that our 
fathers associated [others in worship] with Allah before, and we were but 
descendants after them. Then would You destroy us for what the falsifiers have 
done?" And thus do We [explain in] detail the verses, and perhaps they will 
return.                
              
              
               
              
              
               http://quran.com/16/70-77 And Allah created you; then He will 
take you in death. And among you is he who is reversed to the most decrepit 
[old] age so that he will not know, after [having had] knowledge, a thing. 
Indeed, Allah is Knowing and Competent. And Allah has favored some of you over 
others in provision. But those who were favored would not hand over their 
provision to those whom their right hands possess so they would be equal to 
them therein. Then is it the favor of Allah they reject? And Allah has made for 
you from yourselves mates and has made for you from your mates sons and 
grandchildren and has provided for you from the good things. Then in falsehood 
do they believe and in the favor of Allah they disbelieve? And they worship 
besides Allah that which does not possess for them [the power of] provision 
from the heavens and the earth at all, and [in fact], they are unable. So do 
not assert similarities to Allah . Indeed, Allah knows and you do not know. 
Allah presents an example: a slave [who is] owned and unable to do a thing and 
he to whom We have provided from Us good provision, so he spends from it 
secretly and publicly. Can they be equal? Praise to Allah ! But most of them do 
not know. And Allah presents an example of two men, one of them dumb and unable 
to do a thing, while he is a burden to his guardian. Wherever he directs him, 
he brings no good. Is he equal to one who commands justice, while he is on a 
straight path? And to Allah belongs the unseen [aspects] of the heavens and the 
earth. And the command for the Hour is not but as a glance of the eye or even 
nearer. Indeed, Allah is over all things competent.                
              
              
               
              
              
Samiya               
              
               
                
                 
                  
                   
                  
                 
                
               
               
                
                  
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