On Wed, Jul 1, 2015 at 11:19 AM, John Clark <johnkcl...@gmail.com> wrote:
> > > On Tue, Jun 30, 2015 Terren Suydam <terren.suy...@gmail.com> wrote: > > >> > >> OK, I'm tapping out of this thread. I can't say that you've said anything >> that would lead me to believe you have a sincere, >> > > It makes no difference if I'm sincere or not, all that matters is that my > argument is logical. But for the record, I don't find it fun to argue in > favor of things I don't believe in. And I'm good at arguing because I > always take the path of least resistance, I have no loyalty to ideas so > when somebody beats me in a argument I abandon my previous position and > adopt the new more easily defended position as my own and keep it until I > find something better. > Actions speak louder than words. It's hard to explain how what you wrote could be true since the step 3 argument I and others are making is a lot easier to defend than your position, which involves avoiding at all costs (apparently) the possibility that one's first-person perspective somehow bears on something called first-person-indeterminacy. For whatever reason, you insist on taking the objective stance on first-person experiences and until you stop doing that I don't see any potential for finding common ground. > > >> > >> intellectually honest desire to address the arguments, >> > > You said the duplicating chamber stuff and the Many Worlds stuff were > equivalent, so in other words: > > Case #1: Nobody, absolutely nobody can observe more than one Terren > Suydam, not even Terren Suydam. > Case #2: Everybody, absolutely everybody can observe an unlimited number > of Terren Suydams, including Terren Suydam. > > Coherently explain how these 2 cases are equivalent and Terren Suydam > has won the argument and John Clark will change John Clark's ideas on the > subject. > > FWIW for me it's not about winning the argument but clarifying my own thoughts and getting the benefits of being forced to articulate my position, take another's perspective, and so on. If others benefit from the exchange, awesome. If as a result of an exchange we have, you change your mind, or I change mine, then we're all winning at thinking more clearly. That said, I've already agreed that the two scenarios are *not* equivalent from the third-person perspective, but they *are* equivalent from the first-person perspective. I'm not going to go through it again. This is where sincerity *is* important, because if you were sincere you would acknowledge that point, and maybe even respond to the substance of the arguments I've made. If you did that I'd be happy to continue. Terren > John K Clark > > > -- > You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups > "Everything List" group. > To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an > email to everything-list+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. > To post to this group, send email to everything-list@googlegroups.com. > Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/everything-list. > For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout. > -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "Everything List" group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to everything-list+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. To post to this group, send email to everything-list@googlegroups.com. Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/everything-list. For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout.
