Le 30 juin 2015 19:28, "Terren Suydam" <terren.suy...@gmail.com> a écrit : > > > On Tue, Jun 30, 2015 at 11:59 AM, John Clark <johnkcl...@gmail.com> wrote: >> >> >> On Mon, Jun 29, 2015 at 1:16 PM, Terren Suydam <terren.suy...@gmail.com> wrote: >> >>> > >>> Whether post-duplication-machine or post-many-worlds-duplication, "I" refers to the person having a subjective experience. >> >> >> OK. >> >> >>> >>> > >>> Post duplication, we both agree that the persons diverge in either scenario. So there are two first-person experiences, but we can refer to *THE* first-person experience of either person: >> >> >> But you can't refer to >> *THE* >> future >> first-person experience >> of the Helsinki Man because that is plural not singular if a duplicating chamber is involved. And that's why the question "what one city will he see?" is ridiculous; you in effect said the same thing yourself in your last post when you admitted that personal pronouns must be used and not their referent because they have no referent. In other words in Bruno's thought experiment all the many personal pronouns in it are utterly ridiculous and have no more meaning than a burp. >> >>> > >>> The reasons you are giving why they are not equivalent only bear on the third-person perspective: >> >> >> Two first person perspectives are NOT equivalent to one third party perspective. And in Bruno's thought experiment there is simply no alternative, like it or not after the duplication there are two first person perspectives around (that's what duplication means) so they must be dealt with. >> > > > I agree 100%. But you are still taking the objective stance on this. You are describing the situation from a vantage point outside the system, saying: before the duplication, there is one first-person perspective. After the duplication, there are two. Absolutely correct. But it's not relevant to understanding step 3. You keep cutting out the parts of my posts where I say: > > What is it like to be a person going through a duplication experience? > > I'd be interested to hear your take on exactly that... what would it be like? If you do take up the challenge, please stay with the first-person perspective. Let's not keep going around in circles. > > And you're also not addressing (or cutting out of my posts) when I say: > > From the first-person perspective (what it's like to experience it), a duplication experiment is indistinguishable from a many-worlds splitting. > > I don't understand why you won't address these.
It's simple why, that equates for him to recognize he is an absolute moron since years... So he will simply answer something else, talk about horses and you're back square one. It's the heart of the matter. You can't claim to have refuted step 3 unless you deal with those points. > > Terren > >> >>> >>> . >>> > >>> consciousness supervenes on physical brains (assuming computationalism) >> >> >> Yes, and considering the gargantuan amount of evidence in its favor only a fool would not assume >> computationalism >> . >> >> John K Clark >> >> -- >> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "Everything List" group. >> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to everything-list+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. >> To post to this group, send email to everything-list@googlegroups.com. >> Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/everything-list. >> For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout. > > > -- > You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "Everything List" group. > To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to everything-list+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. > To post to this group, send email to everything-list@googlegroups.com. > Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/everything-list. > For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout. -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "Everything List" group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to everything-list+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. To post to this group, send email to everything-list@googlegroups.com. Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/everything-list. For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout.
