On Wed, Sep 30, 2015 Bruno Marchal <marc...@ulb.ac.be> wrote: >> >> And that my friends is exactly why examples are so superior to >> definitions, it avoids the absurd "define that word" endless loop that >> people always use when they're losing a debate. > > > > > So by asking example when I give a definition, and asking a efinition when > I give example is just to win the debate, and not to progress in > understanding. >
When I say "physical computation" and you demand a definition of that and when I respond with "a computation done with physics" and you demand a definition of that too then I believe it is perfectly acceptable for me to either get off the silly definition merry-go-round or to demand a definition of my own, a definition of definition. > >> >> >> as of today there is ZERO evidence that arithmetic can calculate anything >> without the help of physics; > > > > Because > Because? It doesn't matter why there is zero evidence that arithmetic can calculate anything without the help of physics because whatever the reason is it doesn't change the fact that there is ZERO evidence that arithmetic can calculate anything without the help of physics . Excuses don't cut the mustard in science only evidence does. > > > you use the term computation in the sense of Church-Turing. > I use the term "computation" in the sense of actually finding a particular solution to a particular problem in arithmetic; and neither Church nor Turing were fools so they meant the same thing. > > > They do not assume anything physical to define computation. > A Turing Machine is physical, not that it matters a hoot in hell what Turing or Church assumed because the fact remains there is ZERO evidence that arithmetic can calculate anything without the help of physics . > > I say only that 0+ x = 0, and things like that. I define computation and > proof without assuming more. > In the entire history of the world nobody has ever seen a proof or a definition make a calculation; as of September 30 2015 every calculation ever observed has involved matter that obeys the laws of physics. No exceptions, not a single one. John K Clark -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "Everything List" group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to everything-list+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. To post to this group, send email to everything-list@googlegroups.com. Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/everything-list. For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout.
