> On 1 May 2019, at 21:41, Quentin Anciaux <allco...@gmail.com> wrote: > > Map lookup is a valid implementation for any program you can conceive, albeit > a very ineffective one…
? An implementation must be finite. For most programs, to implement them with a look up table would need an infinite look up table. Bruno > The chinese room is such implementation... And as much as my parts are not > me, i'm not the sum of my parts... > > Quentin > > Le mer. 1 mai 2019 à 20:34, Terren Suydam <terren.suy...@gmail.com > <mailto:terren.suy...@gmail.com>> a écrit : > > I would argue for "pancyberpsychism" (I'm no good at naming - is there a name > for that already?) which is to say that there it is something it is like to > do information processing of any kind. However, the quality of the > consciousness involved in that processing is related to its dynamics. So > banging on a rock involves a primitive form of information processing, as > vibrations ripple through the rock - there it is something it is like for > that rock to be banged on. For ongoing consciousness, some sort of feedback > loop must be involved. A thermostat would be a primitive example of this, or > a simple oscillating electric circuit. The main idea is that consciousness is > associated with cybernetic organization and has nothing to do with substrate, > which might be material or virtual. > > In the Chinese Room example the cybernetic characteristics of the thought > experiment lack any true feedback mechanism. This is the case with most > instances of software as we know it - e.g. traditional chess engines. There > is something it is like to be them, but it's not anything we would recognize > in terms of ongoing subjective awareness. One could argue that operation > systems (including Mars Rovers) embody the cybernetic dynamics necessary for > ongoing experience, but I'd guess that what it's like to be an operating > system would be pretty alien. > > With biological brains, it's all about feedback and recursivity. Small > insects with rudimentary nervous systems are totally recursive, feeding > sensory data in and processing it continuously. So insect consciousness is > much closer to our own than ordinary Von-Neumann architecture data-processing. > > As nervous systems get more complex, feeding in more data and processing data > in much more sophisticated ways, the consciousness involved would likewise be > experienced in a richer way. > > Humans, with our intricate conceptual, language-based self-models, achieve > true self-consciousness. The self-model is a quantum leap forward, giving us > the ability to say "I am". The ego gets a bad rap but it's responsible for > our ability to notice ourselves and live within and create ongoing narratives > about what we are, in relation to what we aren't. This explains why > ego-dissolving psychedelics lead to such profound changes in consciousness. > > Terren > > On Wed, May 1, 2019 at 3:02 PM Quentin Anciaux <allco...@gmail.com > <mailto:allco...@gmail.com>> wrote: > > > Le mer. 1 mai 2019 à 18:13, 'Cosmin Visan' via Everything List > <everything-list@googlegroups.com <mailto:everything-list@googlegroups.com>> > a écrit : > How is a computer conscious ? Magic ? Are you even aware of the Chinese Room > argument ? > > Yes, and how is the chinese room not conscious ? Because you have to > associate it either to the dumb person acting as processor or the rules ? The > chinese room as a whole information processing unit is conscious. If you ask > it, it will tell you so... Prove it is not. > > Quentin > > > -- > You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups > "Everything List" group. > To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an > email to everything-list+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com > <mailto:everything-list+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com>. > To post to this group, send email to everything-list@googlegroups.com > <mailto:everything-list@googlegroups.com>. > Visit this group at https://groups.google.com/group/everything-list > <https://groups.google.com/group/everything-list>. > For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout > <https://groups.google.com/d/optout>. > > -- > You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups > "Everything List" group. > To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an > email to everything-list+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com > <mailto:everything-list+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com>. > To post to this group, send email to everything-list@googlegroups.com > <mailto:everything-list@googlegroups.com>. > Visit this group at https://groups.google.com/group/everything-list > <https://groups.google.com/group/everything-list>. > For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout > <https://groups.google.com/d/optout>. -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "Everything List" group. 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