On Friday, October 11, 2019 at 1:51:12 AM UTC-6, Philip Thrift wrote:
>
>
>
> On Thursday, October 10, 2019 at 10:53:29 PM UTC-5, Brent wrote:
>>
>>
>>
>> On 10/10/2019 6:55 PM, Alan Grayson wrote:
>>
>>
>>
>> On Thursday, October 10, 2019 at 3:37:13 PM UTC-6, Alan Grayson wrote: 
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> On Thursday, October 10, 2019 at 3:27:58 PM UTC-6, Brent wrote: 
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> On 10/10/2019 8:02 AM, Alan Grayson wrote:
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> On Wednesday, October 9, 2019 at 4:21:50 PM UTC-6, Brent wrote: 
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> On 10/9/2019 3:52 AM, Alan Grayson wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> On Wednesday, October 9, 2019 at 12:28:38 AM UTC-6, Brent wrote: 
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> On 10/8/2019 9:20 PM, Alan Grayson wrote: 
>>>>>> > I've argued this before, but it's worth stating again. It's a 
>>>>>> > misintepretation of superposition to claim that a system described 
>>>>>> by 
>>>>>> > it, is in all the component states simultaneously. As is easily 
>>>>>> seen 
>>>>>> > in ordinary vector space, an arbitrary vector has an uncountable 
>>>>>> > number of different representations. Thus, to claim it is in some 
>>>>>> > specific set of component states simultaneously, makes no sense. 
>>>>>> Thus 
>>>>>> > evaporates a key "mystery" of quantum theory, inclusive of S's cat 
>>>>>> and 
>>>>>> > Everett's many worlds. AG 
>>>>>>
>>>>>> No.  It changes the problem to the question of why there are 
>>>>>> preferred 
>>>>>> bases. 
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Brent 
>>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> Who chose Alive and Dead, or Awake and Sleeping for the S. cat? Wasn't 
>>>>> it the observer? 
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> Could the observer have chosen |alive>+|dead> and |alive>-|dead> as a 
>>>>> basis?
>>>>>
>>>>> Brent
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>> *That's a great question and the answer is No, because, as you would 
>>>> say, the pair (|Alive>, |Dead>), forms a "preferred" basis. We can only 
>>>> measure Alive or Dead. However, the other pair you have above is a 
>>>> perfectly valid state of the S cat system, a vector in the Hilbert Space 
>>>> of 
>>>> the system, and presumably there is an uncountable set of other valid 
>>>> states in Hilbert Space. This means that the interpretation of a 
>>>> superposition of the first pair is just as valid as the interpretation of 
>>>> any other pair; namely, that the system is in both components 
>>>> simultanously. But this is obvious nonsense given the plethora of valid 
>>>> bases, so the interpretation fails. THIS is my point. Am I mistaken? AG*
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> The way I read what you posted above is that it would "make no sense" 
>>>> to say a ship on a heading of 345deg is simultaneously moving on a 270deg 
>>>> and 90deg heading.  I think that does make sense.   The interesting 
>>>> question is could it be moving on some other heading?  The answer might be 
>>>> no, it's in the Panama Canal.  In other words there may be something else 
>>>> in physics that determines  perferred basis, even thought he bare 
>>>> Schrodinger equation doesn't seem to.
>>>>
>>>> brent
>>>>
>>>
>>> No, not what I meant. Rather, a ship with a heading of 345 deg, could be 
>>> represented as moving on a 270deg and 90deg heading, *as well as an 
>>> uncountable combination of other headings.*  I think this fundamental 
>>> misinterpretation of superposition of states leads to the MWI and a host of 
>>> other "mysteries" alleged in QM. AG 
>>>
>>
>> IOW, you can think of the wf representing a heading of 345deg, and since 
>> the basis in Hilbert Space is *not* unique, you can imagine that very 
>> *same* wf composed of *different* components. Thus, if it's claimed that 
>> one set of basis components simultaneously represents the wf, one can also 
>> find another, *different* set of basis components to simultaneously 
>> represent the wf. It therefore makes no sense to claim that any set of 
>> basis components simultaneously represents the wf. Specifically, the 
>> quantum claim that a system can be in several component states 
>> simultaneously, is bogus, since the components are *not unique*. AG
>>
>>
>> But my example of the ship shows that it's a commonplace that a vector 
>> can be represented as a sum of components in infinitely many ways...it's a 
>> trivial result of being a vector space.  It's just your prejudice that 
>> there has to be a unique "really, really real" representation.
>>
>> Brent
>>
>>
>
> I suppose if a ship was sent through double straits (A,B) to a linear 
> array of docks D(x), then some angle pairs (A,D(x)), (B,D(x)) would 
> interfere with each other and some would reinforce.
>
> :) 
>
> @philipthrift
>

I'm trying to make an important claim, so I don't appreciate jokes on this 
thread. AG 

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