> On 19 Apr 2021, at 19:51, Philip Benjamin <medinucl...@hotmail.com> wrote: > > [Bruno Marchal] > “Good question. I can answer some of them in the frame of the > computationalist hypothesis. Everything physical emerges from arithmetic as > seen from inside in some mode of self-reference. What many people miss is > that the notions of computer and computation are an arithmetical notion. > Another “cultural” problem, since Aristotle, is the confusion between > the (many) evidences that there is a physical reality, and the (absent) > evidences that this physical reality is fundamental or primitive (= has to be > assumed, or = cannot be derived from less).” Bruno > > [Philip Benjamin] > Out of arithmetic only arithmetic can arise. Even that is questionable, > because all arithmetic about any physicality is already predetermined—nothing > new ARISES.
After Gödel 1931, we know that this is plausibly false, and provably false if we assume Mechanism. The arithmetical reality is out of time, so that in some sense nothing new arise from the 0th person perspective, or God’s perspective, … But for the internal perspective of any universal numbers *in* arithmetic, not only something new arise, but there are an infinity of surprises. No machine can get an effective theory about all the arithmetical truth, nor even define it, despite the clear intuition that we can have. Before Gödel, we thought we could build the mathematical edifice on the “simple” arithmetical reality. After Gödel, we know that we CANNOT use the mathematical edifice to get some foundation of even the simple arithmetical reality, but by using stringer and stronger theories, we can see a larger spectrum of the arithmetical reality. > No matter what people miss in notions of computer and computation as > arithmetical notions. Everything physical is DEAD, unless it is ENDOWED with > life. This looks like vitalism to me, frankly. Also, you seem to assume a physical reality out there. That requires to abandon Mechanism (and thus Darwin, etc.). I find this very speculative. There are no evidences for primary matter or physicalism. > Dead physicality is governed by binding energies including chemical energies > ruled by chemical laws of bonding encoded as duet and octet configurations of > particles of opposite spins. I can’t use this, as I do not assume anything primarily physical. > Life cannot arise from DEAD physicality. I agree. In fact life cannot arise from anything physical, as the physical has to emerge from the machine’dreams/computations (and thus arguably life). > Bohr was fundamentally wrong in introducing undefined subjectivity (whatever > that means) of living matter into quantum physics. I agree. > Subjectivity is supposed to collapse a mathematical/statistical function, > which in turn causes subjectivity. Nothing could be more circular than that. > Moreover, if subjectivity affects a wavefunction either the former is also a > mathematical function or the latter has also subjectivity. Otherwise it is a > category error. A probability is a theoretical NUMBER which has no CREATIVE > powers and no aseity!! . OK (I guess for different reason than you). > Amplitudes do not change that status. It has now become one of the gods of > Western Acade-Media Paganism (WAMP). > There are only two cultures possible for the entire human race: 1 . > Pagan culture of un-awakened/kundalini/reptilian consciousness; 2 . Non-pagan > culture of awakened/quickened/regenerated consciousness. Hmm... > All the rest are sub-cultures of these two. I would say that there are two sort of people. The con-artist who acts like they have found it, and the researcher who propose theories, without ever claiming them true, but on the contrary they propose verification test, and are happy when when disproved, as they learn something. > Awakening in turn is historically of two types: 1 . Intrinsic-awakening, > through self-discipline, education and training of the mind. 2 . Extrinsic > awakening through extrinsic agents, as diverse as Eastern mystical powers > from a multiplicity of sources (such as TM, Yoga, mantras, occultism, > spirit-possession et.) and the Western Scriptural power of a Singularity of > Source [Adonai.(plural) YHWH (singular) Elohim (uni-plural, with Patriarchal, > Prophetic and Apostolic imprimatur). > Augustinian Awakening is that of the “inner man” > (journals.euser.org/files/articles/ejls_sep_dec_15/Halil.pdf > <http://journals.euser.org/files/articles/ejls_sep_dec_15/Halil.pdf>; > https://www.academia.edu/37733061/Saint_Augustines_Invention_of_the_Inner_Man_A_Short_Journey_to_The_History_of_the_Internality_of_the_West > > <https://www.academia.edu/37733061/Saint_Augustines_Invention_of_the_Inner_Man_A_Short_Journey_to_The_History_of_the_Internality_of_the_West>) > -- ROMANS Chapter 7 & 2 CORINTHIANS Chapter 4 > (https://www.ministrysamples.org/excerpts/THE-INNER-MAN-OF-ROMANS--AND-THE-INNER-MAN-OF--CORINTHIANS.HTML > > <https://www.ministrysamples.org/excerpts/THE-INNER-MAN-OF-ROMANS--AND-THE-INNER-MAN-OF--CORINTHIANS.HTML>). > The only candidate for science today to explain the invisible “inner man” > will be Bio Dark-Matter with its bio Dark-Matter Chemistry (Spiritual Body or > Physical Spirit?: Bio Dark-Matter Chemistry, > https://www.amazon.com/Spiritual-Body-Physical-Spirit-Doppelganger/dp/1620061821 > > <https://www.amazon.com/Spiritual-Body-Physical-Spirit-Doppelganger/dp/1620061821>). > There will be “light-matter” and “dark-matter” twins cocreated from the > moment of conception, the former is electric, entropic and transient, the > latter is non-electric, non-entropic and enduring. The “inner man” then will > be the dark-twin, energized by external source of power. At death an > un-awakened ‘inner-man” will be at a negative energy state (- E= -mC^2, where > m is the body mass which will be the minimum energy needed to raise it to any > functional level). > Western Culture is a 3- rd- 4 -th Century Augustinian Trust > (https://www.midwestaugustinians.org/conversion-of-st-augustine > <https://www.midwestaugustinians.org/conversion-of-st-augustine>). Augustine > was a civilized, scholarly Phoenician pagan with Greco-Roman roots, before > his instant “transformation” that pulled the West out from Greco-Roman pagan > philosophies and mystical notions to that of a knowable universe where the > aseity belongs to a knowable Creator who self-reveals through revelations. > That was in line to the Apostolic identification at Mars Hill discourse of > the Athenian “unknown god” with the Resurrected Messiah (Acts chapter 17: > 16-34; > https://politicaltheology.com/the-politics-of-the-unknown-god-acts-1716-34 > <https://politicaltheology.com/the-politics-of-the-unknown-god-acts-1716-34>), > and opened up the channels of critical thinking necessary for explorations > in all fields especially science and technology. Here the Extrinsic Source > alone is the Dynamo of Regeneration. The Thomistic Scholarship, Reformation, > Puritan & Wesleyan Revivals, the Two Great Awakenings etc. are all offshoots > of Augustinian transformation , which all together produced the Western > Civilization—markedly different from the rest of the pagan world of wisdom. > It is altogether unlike the “Woke” sub-culture which is a constellation of > juvenile beliefs and attitudes that were carefully introduced into the > Augustinian West by WAMP-the-Ingrate. > Woke culture pretends to be compassionate, tolerant, altruistic and > intellectual. In fact it is glorified lethargy, dangerous illusion of > liberty, social justice and equality, that bestows social power to people > who are sycophants of the WAMP. It coerces the rest with very oppressive laws > based on fake or shallow and anachronistically misconstrued and passionate > issues of sexism, environmentalism, Jihadism, feminism, racism, etc.), > instead of facing the pain and tragedy in their own lives of addictions, > life-styles and miseries. “Woke” legitimately merits to be a pejorative term, > with its belligerent adherents willfully sticking to blatant lies of Marxism. > QAnon started as online posts by a shadowy figure named “Q”, suddenly > exploded into a cultish fringe movement that’s been dubbed as “extreme right” > — usually a typical Marxist tactics — and is now deemed a potential domestic > terror threat by some biased government agencies. The WAMP & the WOKE are > willfully ignorant of these historical facts: 1 . Slavery was for the first > time in human history abolished by law in the British Empire (the vastest, > strongest, greatest noblest—not perfect—ever on planet Earth), thanks to the > life-time effort of a Puritan MP, William Wilberforce protégé of the cleric > John Newton, 2 . Emancipation Proclamation was follower about six decades > later in Puritan America, 3 . Ocean routes to the East were necessitated by > the Jihadist blockade of all land routes through conquests, 4 . Women’s > Suffrage, Abolition of Child Labor, of Sati, of Foot-binding, propagation of > education, hospitals, charities, foreign aids etc. were biproducts of > Augustinian awakenings of the “inner man” (bio dark-matter bodies)—unheard of > before that in the world of conquests and dictatorships of un-awakened > consciousness!! 5 . Ecclesiastical authorities of Galileo times were only > defending the well-established ( and age-old) Ptolemaic science of those > days. > > Note: WAMP = Western Acade-Media Pagan(ism) > Philip Benjamin I tend to believe the contrary. The truth is in our head, not in any books. But some books can provide tools for improving the research. Machine’s mystical state are personal, and the wise machine remains silent on it, or propose a (precise, testable) theory. Sacred texts are just theology for the maternal level, the rest is observation, theory building and sharing, and testing. The real divide is between Plato, where the observable is a symptom for a reality we can search, and Aristotle, where observation is a criterium of reality (a position which is already refuted by the dream argument, and with mechanism, the dream argument becomes a theorem). Bruno > > From: everything-list@googlegroups.com > <mailto:everything-list@googlegroups.com> <everything-list@googlegroups.com > <mailto:everything-list@googlegroups.com>> On Behalf Of Bruno Marchal > Sent: Thursday, April 15, 2021 7:11 AM > To: everything-list@googlegroups.com <mailto:everything-list@googlegroups.com> > Subject: Re: Mixed State vs Superposition of States for Schrodinger's cat > > > On 14 Apr 2021, at 17:15, Philip Benjamin <medinucl...@hotmail.com > <mailto:medinucl...@hotmail.com>> wrote: > > [Bruno Marchal marc...@ulb.ac.be <mailto:marc...@ulb.ac.be>] > “But the amplitude of probability is physically real: that is the whole > point of quantum mechanics, not to mention arithmetic (with Mechanism)”. > [Philip Benjamin] > That is indeed physics proper. One has to appreciate your methodical > and systematic approach to this problem. It is commendable that, unlike the > order of the day, you do not rely on the logical fallacy of Argumentum ad > Verecundiam respect for “authority” of customs, institutions and I.Q.s, to > strengthen your argument and provide an illusion of proof. However, > probabilities are not necessarily possibilities. Amplitude of PROBABILITIES > is no exception. A theory of reality is not REALITY itself. > > Indeed. That is even provable for the arithmetical reality, which is beyond > all effective theories. > > > > Numbers form 0 to infinity are syncategorematic nouns. > > > Hmm… You might confuse the numbers, and the expression naming the numbers in > some theory, like the numeral 0, s0, ss0, ... > > > > > > Numbers of what? 2 + 2 = 4 is not a categorematic expression of REALITY > unless the “of what” is specified. > > > Assuming that there is anything more, which I doubt. > > It helps, when doing metaphysics with the scientific method to make clear > what we assume and what we derive from it. When we assume mechanism, and if > one is aware of the execution of all computers in arithmetic, the burden of > the proofs that we should assume more than numbers (or combinators…) is in > the hand of the believers in that something more. > > > > > 2 electrons + 2 electrons = 4 electrons is a categorematic statement. The > probability of a massive particle being (or even becoming) a massless wave is > zero, nada, zilch. If my memory is correct even in a nuclear reaction > (explosion, included), the total charge before and after a nuclear reaction > is conserved; so also the total NUMBER of nucleons before and after a > reaction are also the same. It is the binding energies that are released. > As far as electrons in these PROBABILITES you cite are concerned, Bohr > has already assigned them to “stationary orbits” (predetermined energy > levels). Then where do the new “stationary orbits” of NEW REALITIES > speculated in various “mathematical/statistical” theories originate? What > kind of “chemistries” are available for these NEW REALITIES, such as Many > Worlds etc. ? What is the nature of a Many World chemistry? > > > Good question. I can answer some of them in the frame of the computationalist > hypothesis. Everything physical emerges from arithmetic as seen from inside > in some mode of self-reference. > > What many people miss is that the notions of computer and computation are an > arithmetical notion. > > Another “cultural” problem, since Aristotle, is the confusion between the > (many) evidences that there is a physical reality, and the (absent) evidences > that this physical reality is fundamental or primitive (= has to be assumed, > or = cannot be derived from less). > > Bruno > > > > > > Philip Benjamin > > From: everything-list@googlegroups.com > <mailto:everything-list@googlegroups.com> <everything-list@googlegroups.com > <mailto:everything-list@googlegroups.com>> On Behalf Of Bruno Marchal > Sent: Wednesday, April 14, 2021 5:47 AM > To: everything-list@googlegroups.com <mailto:everything-list@googlegroups.com> > Subject: Re: Mixed State vs Superposition of States for Schrodinger's cat > > > On 10 Apr 2021, at 16:47, Philip Benjamin <medinucl...@hotmail.com > <mailto:medinucl...@hotmail.com>> wrote: > > [Philip Benjamin] > Wave equation? Of what? Wavy Particles? Or Wave-like Particles? Wavy > particles is a paradox, a puzzle, a mystic mystery!! That is how a purely > scientific theory such as Quantum Mechanics became so confounded with > absurdities and speculations. Puzzle in, puzzle out!! There are and never > can be wavicles, only particles that behave AS IF in wave forms. An AS IF > Logic is all that is needed, not Both & Fallacy. The Schrodinger Cat was > introduced only to show the absurdity of taking probability statistics > seriously. Probabilities are not all possibilities. > > But the amplitude of probability is physically real: that is the whole point > of quantum mechanics, not to mention arithmetic (with Mechanism). > > > > > > > Some of these pioneers of QM were occultists, alcoholics and some other > serious addictions. That is how the sorcerer-psychiatrist Carl Jung joined > them. Worldviews determine scientific interpretations. Interpretations are > not theories. CopenPagan Interpretation (a malaprop) is a pagan world-view, > not scientific theory. That is how Albert Einstein strongly disagreed with > Niels Bohr. > > > Which suggest that Einstein would have preferred Everett to Bohr. It is sad > that Einstein died in 1955. Everett published the “many-worlds” formulation > of QM (QM without collapse) in 1957. Most cosmologists prefer Everett, as it > is hard to imagine some being observing the whole universe to collapse it in > some state. Note that Belifante does exactly that: he claims that the use of > QM in coslmology requires an observer for the whole universe, and likes to > call it God, admitting that such a god is only a wave collapse, but Everett, > like Mechanism, illustrates that this move is not necessary. We need only > 2+2=4 & Co. > > Bruno > > > > > > Philip Benjamin > Saturday, April 10, 2021 6:22 AM everything-list@googlegroups.com > <mailto:everything-list@googlegroups.com> Subject: Re: Mixed State vs > Superposition of States for Schrodinger's cat > > > On 9 Apr 2021, at 06:42, Alan Grayson <agrayson2...@gmail.com > <mailto:agrayson2...@gmail.com>> wrote: > > When the box is closed, and before the measurement, why can't it be claimed > that the Cat is in a Mixed State, not a Superposition of States? Only the > latter leads to the paradox of a cat which is Alive and Dead simultaneously. > AG > > > Because the Wave equation in this setting leads to a pure state dead+alive, > and twe know that such pure state leads to different prediction than any > possible corresponding mixed states. (Assuming the SWE). > > That’s true even if the box is open, but in that case, the pure state will be > lifted to the observer of the cat, who will become itself in a pure state of > seeing the cat dead and the cat alive, in parallel histories. In this case, > the indeterminacy is explained entirely by the same indeterminacy occurring > in, amoeba self-division, or in the infinite multiplication of all relative > universal number state in arithmetic. > > Bruno > . > -- > . > > -- > You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups > "Everything List" group. > To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an > email to everything-list+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com > <mailto:everything-list+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com>. > To view this discussion on the web visit > https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/everything-list/SA0PR11MB4704E3A41EE56FF85519CC22A8499%40SA0PR11MB4704.namprd11.prod.outlook.com > > <https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/everything-list/SA0PR11MB4704E3A41EE56FF85519CC22A8499%40SA0PR11MB4704.namprd11.prod.outlook.com?utm_medium=email&utm_source=footer>. -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "Everything List" group. 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