general_the...@googlegroups.com
Subject: RE: FW: [Consciousness-Online] RE: The Supreme Court and the Electoral
College
[Roland Cichowski]
"As I have already said about dead matter, aseity does not give rise to it. It
may give rise to an illusion that dead matter exists.... if I believe dead
matter is an illusion and does not exist. How can you then pose a question to
me that Marxists prefer one option that does not exist and Augustinian
civilisations prefer the other option, which is; (something that does not
exist), can give rise to life.. "
[Philip Benjamin]
Aseity is a quality of something that ontologically exists, which
solves the problem of infinite regress. Consciousness is also an attribute of
existence with no creative powers. Sense perception is an experience resulting
from objectively measurable (not illusionary) observations. No existence, no
experience. That is well settled as regards the requirements of law of
noncontradiction and law of causality, as you have observed in your previous
post. No objectivity, no science. That is the observable difference in outcomes
of illusionary worldviews of Yogis and rishis, and objective world views of
reality. Science is then an effect, not cause, of rational thinking.
Augustinian consciousness is an awakened consciousness. Marxist
consciousness is a natural consciousness. No bias or prejudice can fail to note
the difference in outcomes of the tw, so much so, that (stated many times
afore) the pagan Marxist Joseph Stalin had to coin the term "American
Exceptionalism" . America is not the product of yoga, occultism, Cabbala,
Talmud, Tao, TM, Jungian Sorcery, Maya thinking, New Age etc. Rather, this
Non-Sovereign Republic of Sovereign States, resulted from the "Two Great
Awakenings", first led by the prodigious founder-President of Princeton U and
the other led by President of Yale U. These are not illusions, but historical
and historic events. It will be very unwise and perilous for politicians and
jurists groomed by WAMP-the-Ingrate to ignore those FACTS and indoctrinate
every level of Civil and Military life with Socialist-Fascist-Marxist (SOFAMA)
pagan globalism in the once Augustinian objective West in general and twice
awakened factual America in particular.
I have to skip the definitions of "Awakening", "pagan", "WAMP" etc.
Philip Benjamin
From: general_the...@googlegroups.com<mailto:general_the...@googlegroups.com>
<general_the...@googlegroups.com<mailto:general_the...@googlegroups.com>> On
Behalf Of Roland Cichowski
Sent: Sunday, July 17, 2022 12:43 AM
To: general_the...@googlegroups.com<mailto:general_the...@googlegroups.com>
Subject: Re: FW: [Consciousness-Online] RE: The Supreme Court and the Electoral
College
Hi, Philip.
[Philip Benjamin]That is a more rational approach. Only a degree of rationality
can be accomplished in such matters.
[Philip Benjamin] What is more rational? Aseity of dead matter producing life.
[Roland] I'm not sure if these statements are rational or not but I thought I
gave good reason in past posts, why. I do not believe that any evidence can be
found for the existence of what you call dead matter. I am presuming that by
dead matter that you are referring to what most people would call the physical
or material universe.
Our understanding of how our senses might work in this physical reality does
not work when we investigate it. If such a physical universe exists in the way
you seem to think it does, then what we experience of it is unlikely to be
anything like what it really is. This is because our sensory equipment, which
you seem to presume to be part of this physical universe, do not transmit to us
what this physical reality is really like. In this sense what we experience is
an illusion representing something unknown, created by consciousness, to
realise this is the real awakening.
Given this situation I agree it is not rational to believe that dead (Physical)
matter can be producing life. I am not completely sure how you see a connection
between the principle of aseity and the appearance of dead matter. Aseity is a
principle it is not physical in any way. So the idea that it gives rise to
physical or dead matter seems to be a non-starter to me. [physical or dead
matter is an illusion produced by consciousness. Perhaps that is the reason
that as you suggest the statement does not appear to be rational.
[Philip Benjamin] ...or Aseity of LIFE creating dead matter and life forms?
[Roland] It is not clear to me what you mean by aseity of Life.
As I have already said about dead matter, aseity does not give rise to it. It
may give rise to an illusion that dead matter exists and so suggests that life
exists as an extension of it but this is not the true state of reality. So the
only way I can understand your point is that you believe that dead matter
exists and that it gives rise to life forms. Well if I believe dead matter does
not exist in the real state of reality then obviously I cannot see a way in
which it gives rise to life forms. Can you? you are asking me to choose between
two options that are self defeating. I can see the possibility that what you
are calling life and life forms is better perceived as consciousness. As in
life produces or is consciousness.
So to rewrite your sentence; Aseity of consciousness creates dead matter and
hence life (conscious) forms. Written this way, then, yes, that could be
correct, but consciousness is still producing an illusion whose purpose is to
perceive the real situation.
[Philip Benjamin] Marxists prefer the former. Augustinian civilizations
preferred the latter. The difference in outcomes is obvious!
[Roland] You keep stating these points in your posts many times. Given what I
have said above. Can you understand, if I believe dead matter is an illusion
and does not exist. How can you then pose a question to me that Marxists prefer
one option that does not exist and Augustinian civilisations prefer the other
option, which is; (something that does not exist), can give rise to life. The
division you perceive does not seem to make sense. To me it suggests both
Marxists and Augustinian civilisations are on the wrong track and are mistaken.
That may seem a bit harsh but this discussion is supposed to be about finding
out the true nature of consciousness. Your consciousness is suggesting to you
that there is some sort of conflict between Marxists and Augustinian
civilisation. I would suggest that these conflicts that you have become so
wedded to are the result of illusory manifestations produced by the fact that
your consciousness accepts the reality of a physical universe in, which all
these conflicts take place. In reality they are side issues to the question of
what consciousness is because they are all based upon experiences that are
manifested to you by your consciousness. A possible reason for this would
appear to be; that it is so that you can experience something unknown and
unknowable to you. This is in turn because none of your senses are capable of
giving you a direct experience of what this unknowable thing is.
It may be unknowable to us through our senses but our very existence as
conscious beings indicate to us that we exist. This suggests to me that there
is a link between the unknowable and our own consciousness. We ourselves are
proof that something exists. The condition of aseity would seem to be a good
candidate for at least the root cause of this unknowable manifestation of
something existing. This is because as I stated in my last post aseity may be
the root cause from, which issues; all following chains of cause and effects
that manifest in our experiences.
As far as I can discern our consciousness is attempting to perceive what it
cannot know directly. Please consider the possibility that the condition of
aseity may in fact be as close as we can get to a representation of
consciousness in this discussion.
This suggests that the effort of our consciousness to know itself is in fact
the result of the circumstance of the condition of asities' efforts to know its
self. The appearance of a dead matter physical universe to us in our
consciousness is the result of this effort by consciousness to know itself.
This may seem somewhat of a circular argument but then this is to be expected
of the condition that is producing it. It too is a self-sustaining circular
manifestation. The miraculous thing is that this condition of aseity seems to
have the ability to stand outside of itself and view itself. However, it seems
it can only do this by creating the appearance of a physical universe (of dead
matter) perhaps in an effort to give consciousness something to latch onto. Our
problem is how to correctly divine what this illusory projection is suggesting
to us because it would seem to be the only indication of what this condition of
aseity or consciousness is.
The issues of PAGANS WAMPS etc. all pale into insignificance in the face of
this. I intuit from your previous posts that you might be recognising that this
condition of aseity is something to do with what you call YHWH (SINGULAR), if
it is, then this is good reason to pursue the issue of consciousness, is it
not? I feel this is the real task behind what you might call the Augustinian
revelation. But that might be putting words into your mouth.
Have to close now, all the best Roland
On 16/07/2022 4:53, Philip Benjamin wrote:
[Philip Benjamin]
Hi, Roland. That is a more rational approach. Only a degree of rationality can
be accomplished in such matters. What is more rational? Aseity of dead matter
producing life or aseity of LIFE creating dead matter and life forms? Marxists
prefer the former. Augustinian civilizations preferred the latter. The
difference in outcomes is obvious!
Philip Benjamin
From: general_the...@googlegroups.com<mailto:general_the...@googlegroups.com>
<general_the...@googlegroups.com><mailto:general_the...@googlegroups.com> On
Behalf Of Roland Cichowski
Sent: Friday, July 15, 2022 9:42 AM
To: general_the...@googlegroups.com<mailto:general_the...@googlegroups.com>
Subject: Re: FW: [Consciousness-Online] RE: The Supreme Court and the Electoral
College
Philip thank you for the reply and sorry for the delay in answering.
It is interesting that you use the example of to be and not to be and point out
that it is a logical contradiction. It does seem so.
You also point out is against the law of causality. Again it would seem so.
I have noticed in the past you have pointed out the function aseity has to play
in things.
If I understand this phenomenon correctly then it does not have a cause it is
what it is, self-sufficient, unto itself. I find it interesting that therefore
nothing can be before this; state of aseity, as it has no cause. However, I
perceive that this does not preclude it causing effects. I recognise that this
quality of aseity is the basis of all of the creation, which we experience
because it is acting as the first cause. I perceive that in your thinking you
seem to be placing these contradictions somewhere along; what is best described
as a sequence of cause and effect. This will lead to the argument that you are
proposing and of course it does seem correct when perceived like this.
However, and I find this difficult to describe, consider that these
contradictions are displaying the same quality as the aseity from which they
have originated. It is as if you take these contradictions down through a
sequence of cause and effect until you reach their original cause. That
original cause is a condition of aseity, I think.
So apparent contradictions like; existence and experience; to be or not to be;
which comes first the chicken or the egg are all displaying the quality of
aseity from which they originated. They can only be correctly understood as
being perceived of and conceived of in terms of a pairing. They are together.
It is our consciousness, which separates them and then is forced to consider,
which came first or their apparent contradiction.
When their quality of aseity is considered then it can be perceived that
existence and experience exist together, hand in hand as it were. This becomes
more obvious if you try to consider how existence could be if there were
nothing to experience it or likewise; how could anything be experienced if
nothing existed. The two qualities are not in contradiction they are
co-dependent upon one another. We are only able to be conscious of their
qualities when they are considered together.
This is what I perceive and I would welcome your opinion.
All the best Roland
On 13/07/2022 23:36, Philip Benjamin wrote:
[Roland]
"But what do you think about the possibility that existence and experience
are co dependent? Neither can exist without the other, I think."
[Philip Benjamin]
It is a logical contradiction "to be" and "not be" at the same time in the
same frame of reference. It is also against the law of causality. Existences is
the cause of the effect experience. The names John, Liz, Joe, Mary etc. are the
effects not causes of an Augustinian transformation of a multitude of
individual consciousness in an entire continent, which was effected through the
instrumentality of Romans 13: 13-14
(https://www.midwestaugustinians.org/conversion-of-st-augustine<https://nam12.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.midwestaugustinians.org%2Fconversion-of-st-augustine&data=05%7C01%7C%7Cb9e4e6aa95224011e66208da67b74659%7C84df9e7fe9f640afb435aaaaaaaaaaaa%7C1%7C0%7C637936334105284267%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0%3D%7C3000%7C%7C%7C&sdata=Gzn0vXc9Fc6sSmoEf1GAPo3PdWgYZORDo1G%2BVlyB7g0%3D&reserved=0>}.
Rabbi Saul of Tarsus will take it all the way to Genesis 1: 1-2 in 2
Corinthians 4: 6.
Philip Benajamin
From: general_the...@googlegroups.com<mailto:general_the...@googlegroups.com>
<general_the...@googlegroups.com><mailto:general_the...@googlegroups.com> On
Behalf Of Roland
Sent: Wednesday, July 13, 2022 8:09 AM
To: 'Rosemary Rock-Evans' via Consciousness-Online
<general_the...@googlegroups.com><mailto:general_the...@googlegroups.com>
Subject: Re: [Consciousness-Online] RE: The Supreme Court and the Electoral
College
I agree with you Philip in that 'why' is the most important question. To many
thinkers waste time on how. Why comes first.
Philip: Existence is antecedent to experience.
Possibly. But what do you think about the possibility that existence and
experience are co dependent? Neither can exist without the other, I think.
All the best, Roland.
On Wed, 13 July 2022, 3:33 am Philip Benjamin,
<medinucl...@hotmail.com<mailto:medinucl...@hotmail.com>> wrote:
[Philip Benjamin]
All evidences seem to indicate tis is a human problem, no animals
areagitated over fictitious deities. None of the rplies address the real human
problem. The brains of most animals are not all that different from humans'.
You may sft the problem to neural patterns etc., but that does not answer the
question, why? What, nor even how, is not the subject here. Existence is
antecedent to experience. Awakened experience follows awakened existence. That
is how Augustine, a pagan, hedonist scholar in Platonism became an exegete of
Theology ( centered around Adonai of the Patriarchs, Prophets and the Apostles)!
Philip Benjamin
From: 'Rosemary Rock-Evans' via Consciousness-Online
<general_the...@googlegroups.com<mailto:general_the...@googlegroups.com>>
Sent: Monday, July 11, 2022 3:11 PM
To: general_the...@googlegroups.com<mailto:general_the...@googlegroups.com>
Subject: RE: [Consciousness-Online] RE: The Supreme Court and the Electoral
College
" How can fictitious deities really do anything at all?"
But they do, because what we believe in we become. Belief is the most important
thing we have, it creates civilisations, buildings, behaviour, art, food,
literature, plays, music, poems, ethics, morals ............. Take away a man's
house and car and he will be upset for a while. But take away his beliefs and
you destroy him.
Imposing belief systems is as destructive as waging war on them. You kill their
spirit.
------ Original Message ------
From: "Philip Benjamin"
<medinucl...@hotmail.com<mailto:medinucl...@hotmail.com>>
To: "general_the...@googlegroups.com<mailto:general_the...@googlegroups.com>"
<general_the...@googlegroups.com<mailto:general_the...@googlegroups.com>>
Sent: Monday, 11 Jul, 22 At 20:28
Subject: RE: [Consciousness-Online] RE: The Supreme Court and the Electoral
College
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