On Monday, March 10, 2025 at 9:13:21 AM UTC-6 John Clark wrote:
On Mon, Mar 10, 2025 at 10:03 AM Alan Grayson <[email protected]> wrote: *> Maybe "definitions" is the wrong way to look at the problem. It's really the unsolved mind-body problem. How does chemistry give rise to consciousness? * *Regarding that I have five points. * *1) In 1936 Alan Turing showed us how inert matter can produce intelligent behavior. * I think you're exaggerating here. AG *2) Natural selection can see intelligent behavior but it can't see consciousness.* *3) Evolution produced me and I know with absolute certainty that I am conscious. I strongly suspect you are too. * *4) An iterative sequence of "how does" questions either goes on forever or ends in a brute fact, that is to say a fact that cannot be explained by something deeper or more fundamental.* The White Light is a good candidate for a brute fact. But first you have to see it, and so far it's virtually impossible for the overwhelming majority of human beings. I was just lucky, or blessed. I can assure you it's nothing like the light Newton used to show white light can be decomposed into the visible colors. The White Light surely seems conscious, attached to each of us, and the source of our being or consciousness. If you try to meditate for five minutes, and grasp how difficult it is to do so, you'll gain respect for the navel gazers you glibly mock. AG *5) There are only two possibilities, either the sequence of questions goes on forever or it's a brute fact that consciousness is the way data feels when it is being processed intelligently. The evolutionary argument strongly suggests that the second explanation is far more likely. * *> If you can't explain that, you can't say that AI is conscious. Maybe you can't even assert that any of us are conscious. AG * *Exactly! And I don't believe anybody this side of a loony bin really believes that solipsism is true. * All we can really be sure of, is that chemicals effect consciousness, but how this happens is likely unknown, or far from being known. AG ti *I have 4 questions for you: * *1) Why do you think definitions are better than examples? * *2) Where do you think lexicographers obtained the knowledge they needed to write the definitions that are in their dictionaries? * *3) Are definitions of words also made of words, and do those words in the definition also have definitions made of words, **and do those words in the definition of the definition of words also have definitions made of words, and ....?* *4) What is the definition of "definition"? * -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "Everything List" group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to [email protected]. To view this discussion visit https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/everything-list/fecaeb48-b93c-4348-a295-1aee60ffe1cfn%40googlegroups.com.
