On 3/10/2025 8:12 AM, John Clark wrote:
On Mon, Mar 10, 2025 at 10:03 AM Alan Grayson <[email protected]>
wrote:
/> Maybe "definitions" is the wrong way to look at the problem.
It's really the unsolved mind-body problem. How does chemistry
give rise to consciousness? /
*Regarding that I have five points.*
*
*
*1) In 1936 Alan Turing showed us howinert matter can produce
intelligent behavior. *
*
*
*2) Natural selection can see intelligent behavior but it can't see
consciousness.*
That's questionable. I can certainly see the difference between
conscious and unconscious. Conscious thought in the sense of imagining
scenarios with one's self in them is pretty damned useful.
*
*
*3) Evolution produced me and I know with absolute certainty that I am
conscious. I strongly suspect you are too. *
*
*
*4) An iterative sequence of "how does" questions either goes on
forever or ends in a brute fact, that is to say a fact that cannot be
explained by something deeper or more fundamental. *
*
*
*5) There are only two possibilities, either the sequence of questions
goes on forever or it's a brute fact that consciousness is the way
data feels when it is being processed intelligently. The evolutionary
argument strongly suggests that the second explanation is far more
likely. *
/> If you can't explain that, you can't say that AI is conscious.
Maybe you can't even assert that any of us are conscious. AG /
*Exactly! And I don't believe anybody this side of a loony bin really
believes that solipsism is true.*
*John K Clark See what's on my new list at Extropolis
<https://groups.google.com/g/extropolis>*
tis
*I have 4 questions for you:*
*
*
*1) Why do you think definitions are better than examples?
*
Examples are more ambiguous.
*
*
*2) Where do you think lexicographers obtained the knowledge
they needed to write the definitions that are in their
dictionaries? *
*
*
*3) Are definitions of words also made of words, and do those
words in the definition also have definitions made of words,
**and do those words in the definition of the definition of
words also have definitions made of words, and ....?**
*
They terminate in ostensive definitions which are special examples that
are less ambiguous than most
*
*
*4) What is the definition of "definition"?
*
A description that picks out a single meaning of a word.
Brent
d4w
-
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