Really fine post, Michael, very thoughtful. Based on what I've read, I'm not sure enlightenment experiences are always a choice, at least not on a conscious level. I don't know how much you've read of what Robin posted here, but he may be a case in point. From his accounts, while he certainly wanted to become enlightened, when it happened it was completely unexpected and not at all under his control. And it lasted for more than 10 years.
You write, "But most of those who have 'higher states of consciousness' cycle from those kinds of experiences into egoic focus that includes often enough the idea that since everything is a play of awareness, it doesn't make a tinker's damn what they do with and to people, cuz its just all consciousness playing around. No rules, no standard of conduct..." Robin's experience was that his actions were, as it were, dictated by cosmic forces, rather than that he could just do whatever he felt like. His experience was that he could not do other than what he did, even though at times there was some aspect of himself that didn't want to do what he was doing. So in his case it wasn't a matter of "egoic focus" in the usual sense, although that seems to have been what it looked like from the outside, especially toward the end of his cult-leader period. What's unusual about Robin is that after his group crashed and burned and he was disgraced, he realized something was very wrong with his enlightenment, and he set out to get himself back to normal consciousness. It took him 25 years of constant, grueling, agonizing effort. And he came to believe that enlightenment was a snare and a delusion, masterminded by forces inimical to the welfare of human beings. In his case, he believes, these forces took advantage of what he calls his "secret infirmities," negative character traits, first to instigate his enlightenment, and then to bring him down. He never thought, and doesn't to this day, that Maharishi was a con man. He believes Maharishi was himself conned by these same forces. I'm struck by how closely your analysis tracks in many respects with Robin's. Not having known or having had any experience with Rama, I can only go by his recorded history - he certainly was known to have "acted out" - he apparently abused and misused his position as teacher, he was a serial womanizer, and maybe took people to the cleaners - although some seemed to feel that their money was well spent with him, regardless of his enormities. I acknowledge his shortcomings, and the fact that some like Barry had some powerful experiences with him. I am having some degree of energy experience from reading Barry's account. I view Amma as a huckster, but I don't deny people have pleasant and powerful experiences with her. I view M as a huckster, but the one time I saw him in person, I had what stands today as one of the most powerful, amazing experiences of energy of my life. Same with other teachers like Muktananda - they could spark energy in other people, sometimes big time Energy, but they were or are ego-centered and screwed up in a lot of ways that lead to the people around them getting screwed in different ways. Chuck Anderson who was also known as Master Teacher of the Endeavor Academy falls into that category. Bottom line for me is that all this has taught me the definition of enlightenment M gave out is flawed if not downright incorrect, and yes that includes the source material of the vedas which I feel was the pontifications of a bunch of guys roaming around in the forest who said "Huh! This is my reality so I am going to tell everyone it THEIR reality too, and if they don't get on board with it, they are missing the boat." I feel the Universe has nearly infinite if not infinite experiences we can all have, and the so-called higher states of awareness or enlightened perception, including all the celestial perception stuff is just another experience among a plethora of experiences. I think that if one chooses one can create an experience, a persona that is real moral, always sativcc, always unperturbed, sort of like the historical Buddha was supposed to have been. But most of those who have "higher states of consciousness" cycle from those kinds of experiences into egoic focus that includes often enough the idea that since everything is a play of awareness, it doesn't make a tinker's damn what they do with and to people, cuz its just all consciousness playing around. No rules, no standard of conduct, these are the ones like Muktananda, Maharishi and Rama who go off the deep end of ego and screw things up. I acknowledge the power, the depth of silence and vibrations of the infinite that course through these people and I acknowledge the screwed up behavior. For whatever reason there was a vibration of infinite energy that Rama tapped into and was an exponent of that communicated itself to Barry and I get to feel it through Barry's writing. I am enjoying it and we'll see where it leads, if anywhere. I would kinda like to think that having such an experience was what FFL was really created for to begin with. And that is what I think of that. -------------------------------------------- On Fri, 1/17/14, Richard Williams <punditster@... mailto:punditster@...> wrote: Subject: Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: Apostasy, is a terrible thing. To: "Richard J. Williams" <FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com mailto:FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com> Date: Friday, January 17, 2014, 1:55 PM Well, I thought fer sure you'd say that Rama was a con man and a fake and had sexual relations with his students, like you said about MMY. Maybe you've changed your mind about that. It looks like you've changed your mind about the bun-hopping-levitation too. From what I've read, Rama left several million dollars, most of that given to him by his students to support his extravagant lifestyle. Barry probably gave Rama over $10,000 to be able to go see a movie with Rama. So, I wonder what that has taught Barry about giving money to people for spiritual instruction. What happened to all the money? So, how much does it cost to fly Rama over to Paris and put him up in a four-star hotel for a few days? Barry's part of the donation probably cost him close to $5,000. That's a lot of money to just spend just to be able be with your teacher at Disneyland. Go figure. On Thu, Jan 16, 2014 at 12:40 PM, Michael Jackson <mjackson74@... mailto:mjackson74@...> wrote: I changed my day so I could delve into what you had written - I have gone through a lot of it and it answers most of my questions. Mainly I wanted to know if you thought Rama was legit in the beginning and if you witnessed any of the power or sidhi demonstrations he did. Obviously yes to both. I had a hard time reading much of it because I began to feel a great deal of energy as soon as I started reading, I mean LOTS of energy. So I am taking the reading in stages. Read a little. Sweep my floors a little, clean the bathrooms, come down off the energy a little and read a little more. Two minor questions I have are: Did you know this guy? Mark Laxer Have you ever read his book Take Me for a Ride: Coming of Age in a Destructive Cult Paperback? If so is it accurate? That's all - back to the energy now and thanks for talking and thanks for writing about Rama and all the other things you wrote about. -------------------------------------------- On Thu, 1/16/14, Michael Jackson <mjackson74@... mailto:mjackson74@...> wrote: Subject: Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: Apostasy, is a terrible thing. To: FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com mailto:FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com Date: Thursday, January 16, 2014, 4:02 PM Thanks Barry - I am gonna read what you have written and if I have any questions after that, I'll send 'em. Got a busy day today, but I intend to start reading it later tonight. -------------------------------------------- On Thu, 1/16/14, TurquoiseB <turquoiseb@... mailto:turquoiseb@...> wrote: Subject: [FairfieldLife] Re: Apostasy, is a terrible thing. To: FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com mailto:FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com Date: Thursday, January 16, 2014, 8:21 AM --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com mailto:FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Michael Jackson wrote: > > I would like to have a conversation with you about your time with Rama if you are willing. I am more than happy to do it privately if you like cause I know some on here are going to revile you no matter what you say. So can we talk? I don't mind, as long as you understand a few things at the outset. First, I rarely even think about the dude any more, except when something triggers a memory, as something you said in one of your posts did yesterday. Second, I don't waste my time either condemning or defending him -- he was what he was, and I don't much care what anyone thinks about him. Third, however, and as you say, if we do it here you can expect a lot of "piling on" from stalkers here. They'll do it for various reasons. Some will start piling on when they hear tales of thousands of his students witnessing siddhis they've *still* only read about, after 30 years of pursuing them and after paying thousands of dollars to supposedly learn them. Some will pile on because they don't like me, and they mistakenly believe that if they diss a former teacher I still have some positive feelings about, it'll push my hot buttons the same way me saying things about MMY pushes theirs, and thus I'll react and get into one of the Robin-like "confrontations" with them they so hope for. That's not gonna happen, so we might as well do it here. :-) But I'll warn you ahead of time that my attention span for "things Rama-related" is pretty damned short these days, so if you have questions, make the first few "count," because at some point I'll get tired of the whole thing and bail. :-) That said, ask anything you want, and I'll do my best to answer your questions as honestly as I wrote "Road Trip Mind." That would be a good place to start if you are actually curious about the dude. I wrote it to get the Rama-monkey off my back, and it worked. I don't actually have a great deal more to say about the guy than I said in that book. http://www.ramalila.net/RoadTripMind/index.html http://www.ramalila.net/RoadTripMind/index.html
