Actually, I think performance should be on top of the priority list for any Flash developer. Unresponsive flash apps are the number one irritation imho.
On Tue, Jan 5, 2010 at 12:19 PM, Paul Andrews <p...@ipauland.com> wrote: > Meinte van't Kruis wrote: > >> I'd say, learn a lower-level language. I've worked with some guys with an >> assembly and c++ background, and they really knew how to squeeze the last >> drops of performance out of a flash app. >> >> > That's far less of a concern for most Flash applications and faster > processors and increased performance by the player help. Performance always > will be a concern for some situations but I would never advise anyone to > learn assembly language or C++ with that in mind for AS3. Better to learn > from AS3 Gurus. > > The people (like me) that have passed through the assembly and C++ route > have done so not as a way to become better AS3 developers but because our > situations required that we program assembler and C++. Those skills help us > with AS3 but aren't an efficient route to take. Don't go there. > > Paul > > On Tue, Jan 5, 2010 at 11:11 AM, Paul Andrews <p...@ipauland.com> wrote: >> >> >> >>> Karl DeSaulniers wrote: >>> >>> >>> >>>> Duly noted. I dont think I am so much worried that I should know C# in >>>> order to know or learn AS3, but more, >>>> if I do take on C#, that I can incorporate my skills and be able to >>>> expand >>>> beyond the barriers so-to-speak >>>> as a flash developer and programer. Also, because I am told that they >>>> are >>>> similar, will it may make it easier to learn >>>> C# if I already know AS3? >>>> >>>> >>>> >>> Certainly. The first language is always the hardest, then most concepts >>> will travel between languages even if there are differences in the way >>> they >>> are implemented. >>> >>> Paul >>> >>> >>> >>> >>>> Karl >>>> >>>> On Jan 5, 2010, at 3:22 AM, Paul Andrews wrote: >>>> >>>> Dave Watts wrote: >>>> >>>> >>>>> Perhaps you can explain how AS3 is "narrow". For years Pascal was THE >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>>> language to learn programming then eventually it migrated to "Java" >>>>>>> and >>>>>>> I >>>>>>> don't consider AS3 to be a limited language or narrow in it's >>>>>>> outlook. >>>>>>> I >>>>>>> think it's rather a good and accessible first language to learn. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>> AS3 is designed to do one thing: build Flash applications. Pascal and >>>>>> Java are both general-purpose programming languages. You can build all >>>>>> sorts of different programs in them, and more importantly, you can >>>>>> build programs that are really nothing but wrappers for specific >>>>>> examples, without a lot of extra infrastructure needed to run them. >>>>>> You can write a single Java class and run it from a command prompt. >>>>>> >>>>>> I think Adobe is rather missing a trick in not having a stand-alone >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>> version of Actionscript. >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>>> Your main point may be that AS3 is really a client side language, I'm >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>>> really >>>>>>> not sure what you perceive as a limitation. As a language it supports >>>>>>> just >>>>>>> about all the notions of a modern OO language, so I don't think it's >>>>>>> really >>>>>>> limiting at all. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Most of the programming principles from Java and the like are easily >>>>>>> implemented in AS3, so I have no idea where the problem is. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>> Dealing with concurrency is a common programming problem. I wouldn't >>>>>> want to demonstrate concurrency solutions in AS3. >>>>>> >>>>>> Writing a simple, argument-driven "hello world" program is far easier >>>>>> in Pascal or Java (or especially Python) than AS3. >>>>>> >>>>>> Yes, you're right, but in the context of someone wanting to learn AS3 >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>> as a primary goal not general programming, such things aren't such an >>>>> issue. >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>>> I would suggest PHP, not as an AS3 look-alike, but as a good >>>>>> compliment >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>>> to >>>>>>> AS3 - as good as C# as a companion to As3 in the real-world. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>> Sure, PHP is a good complement to AS3, as both can be used to build >>>>>> different parts of web applications. >>>>>> >>>>>> But again, I submit that there is value in learning a general-purpose >>>>>> programming language, which isn't limited to building web >>>>>> applications. The point of learning a second (or third, or Nth) >>>>>> programming language isn't necessarily to perform a specific task, but >>>>>> rather to learn "how to program". A competent programmer can learn new >>>>>> languages for specific tasks as required, because he or she already >>>>>> knows "how to program". The best languages for learning how to program >>>>>> aren't those, like PHP or AS3, designed to solve a specific problem, >>>>>> like building web applications. Focusing on a specific problem domain >>>>>> is great for learning how to solve that single kind of problem, not so >>>>>> great for other things. >>>>>> >>>>>> I have interpreted the original question as "Do I need to learn >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>> language X to become an AS3 programmer" and the answer is most >>>>> definitely >>>>> "No". There's no harm (and much to be gained) in learning subsequent >>>>> languages once the principle concepts are grasped with the first >>>>> language. >>>>> What is a mistake is to try and learn two new languages at the same >>>>> time and >>>>> it would also be misleading to say that learning another language is a >>>>> prerequisite for learning AS3. >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>>> As a ColdFusion developer, I see the same sort of thing all the time. >>>>>> People learn how to write ColdFusion, as it's very easy, but they >>>>>> develop a tunnel vision of sorts, and they don't understand a lot of >>>>>> things about programming in general (like concurrency) because it's >>>>>> not an issue in that language. >>>>>> >>>>>> I understand that view completely. I have a Computer Science degree >>>>>> and >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>> spent several years working on writing operating systems and low-level >>>>> disk >>>>> controllers. Many of the people I have worked with have grown up in a >>>>> specific development environment and don't stray beyond it. They are >>>>> sometimes rather surprised if I use a technique that is used in OS >>>>> synchronisation. >>>>> >>>>> You mention concurrency and that is something Adobe needs to address >>>>> (I'm >>>>> sure it won't be easy to make the Flash infrastructure thread safe) and >>>>> we >>>>> both know that it will improve performance greatly in the player where >>>>> there >>>>> are multiple cores available. I'm sure it will also swell the posting >>>>> on >>>>> flashcoders! >>>>> >>>>> Currently it's necessary for developers to know Actionscript for Flash >>>>> and Flex plus something else for server interaction. I'd rather see the >>>>> second language being useful to allow people to complete their pipeline >>>>> to >>>>> the server than be a language that may not suit that well. It's also >>>>> important in these economic climes, that the effort put in suits the >>>>> market >>>>> demand for expertise. It's unfortunate in some ways that Adobe haven't >>>>> pushed the boat a little further with a good server-side actionscript >>>>> implementation to make that access to data even easier. >>>>> >>>>> I used to develop in a proprietary environment with some similarities >>>>> to >>>>> Flash/Actionscript and used to write "headless" applications in it, >>>>> replacing server-side scripting even though the language and >>>>> environment was >>>>> primarily designed to work with a GUI. The great thing was that other >>>>> team >>>>> members who had only learned to use that particular system could take >>>>> on the >>>>> subsequent development and maintenance of the code without having to >>>>> learn >>>>> an extra language. The fact that they were limited to one >>>>> environment/language didn't mean that they weren't able to produce very >>>>> capable applications. >>>>> >>>>> A lot of people want to learn Actionscript and I'd rather they didn't >>>>> think that they had to learn another language to do so, or mistakenly >>>>> attempt to take on two new languages as an entry to programming at the >>>>> same >>>>> time. >>>>> >>>>> Paul >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>>> Dave Watts, CTO, Fig Leaf Software >>>>>> http://www.figleaf.com/ >>>>>> >>>>>> Fig Leaf Software provides the highest caliber vendor-authorized >>>>>> instruction at our training centers in Washington DC, Atlanta, >>>>>> Chicago, Baltimore, Northern Virginia, or on-site at your location. >>>>>> Visit http://training.figleaf.com/ for more information! >>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>> Flashcoders mailing list >>>>>> Flashcoders@chattyfig.figleaf.com >>>>>> http://chattyfig.figleaf.com/mailman/listinfo/flashcoders >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>> Flashcoders mailing list >>>>> Flashcoders@chattyfig.figleaf.com >>>>> http://chattyfig.figleaf.com/mailman/listinfo/flashcoders >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>> Karl DeSaulniers >>>> Design Drumm >>>> http://designdrumm.com >>>> >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> Flashcoders mailing list >>>> Flashcoders@chattyfig.figleaf.com >>>> http://chattyfig.figleaf.com/mailman/listinfo/flashcoders >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> Flashcoders mailing list >>> Flashcoders@chattyfig.figleaf.com >>> http://chattyfig.figleaf.com/mailman/listinfo/flashcoders >>> >>> >>> >> >> >> >> >> > > _______________________________________________ > Flashcoders mailing list > Flashcoders@chattyfig.figleaf.com > http://chattyfig.figleaf.com/mailman/listinfo/flashcoders > -- Meinte van't Kruis Freelance Flash Platform Dev (mxml,actionscript,flex,air) malatze http://www.malatze.com/ http://www.linkedin.com/in/meinte mei...@malatze.com 0617459744 _______________________________________________ Flashcoders mailing list Flashcoders@chattyfig.figleaf.com http://chattyfig.figleaf.com/mailman/listinfo/flashcoders
