Thanks for responding. Of course with natural gas, the first thing comes to my
mind is "Gasland'. But I suppose if some ot those environmental issues can be
brought under control, natural gas seems like it will be a big economic driver
for a while.
----- Original Message -----
From: Joshua Thorp
To: The Friday Morning Applied Complexity Coffee Group
Sent: Tuesday, February 28, 2012 8:01 PM
Subject: Re: [FRIAM] A Good Question - Should the United States join OPEC?
This sounds right to me. There is a lot of finger wagging at Iran for not
having domestic capacity for petroleum refinement even though they are a crude
exporter. So I guess capacity works both ways. The other thing I know is
currently a hot topic is natural gas production. I believe the US has
increased its production quite a bit lately and is likely to have a lot more in
the future.
On Feb 28, 2012, at 8:40 PM, Hugh Trenchard wrote:
Just as a brief follow up, it seems to me one of the major factors in this
is that U.S. refining capacity has increased so that there is less need to
import refined petroleum products. I haven't researched this in any detail and
I stand to be corrected on all my assertions, but it seems to me it's not as
though there are any new sources of US domestic supply or significant increase
in technological ability to extract previously hard to obtain oil, and likely
only marginal reduction in demand. There may be some, but my thought is the
hype on this is rather misleading. Again I don't have the figures, but my
guess is that the vast majority of US crude imports likely still come from
Canada, Mexico, and other western hemisphere nations, which the U.S. refining
companies refine and re-sell as petroleum products, both for domestic use and
to export abroad.
The link below shows some of the definitions used in the petroleum/fuels
industry. From my skeptical standpoint, the hype could mislead the American
public toward a false sense of security. I suppose if it stimulates the
economy, then that's good, but if it gets people guzzling more gas, then it's
really just a fool's game.
http://www.eia.gov/dnav/pet/TblDefs/pet_move_imp_tbldef2.asp
From the link: "Petroleum products are obtained from the processing of
crude oil (including lease condensate), natural gas, and other hydrocarbon
compounds. Petroleum products include unfinished oils, liquefied petroleum
gases, pentanes plus, aviation gasoline, motor gasoline, naphtha-type jet fuel,
kerosene-type jet fuel, kerosene, distillate fuel oil, residual fuel oil,
petrochemical feedstocks, special naphthas, lubricants, waxes, petroleum coke,
asphalt, road oil, still gas, and miscellaneous products."
----- Original Message -----
From: Russ Abbott
To: The Friday Morning Applied Complexity Coffee Group
Cc: Hugh Trenchard
Sent: Monday, February 27, 2012 7:47 PM
Subject: Re: [FRIAM] A Good Question - Should the United States join OPEC?
We exported more petroleum products, not more oil. We are still net oil
importers.
-- Russ Abbott
_____________________________________________
Professor, Computer Science
California State University, Los Angeles
Google voice: 747-999-5105
Google+: https://plus.google.com/114865618166480775623/
vita: http://sites.google.com/site/russabbott/
_____________________________________________
On Mon, Feb 27, 2012 at 7:42 PM, Owen Densmore <o...@backspaces.net>
wrote:
From
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2011/05/03/us-becomes-net-exporter-o_n_857085.html
While some Americans cut back on driving as gas prices soar, the U.S.
has become a net exporter of fuel for the first time in nearly 20 years.
According to data from the Energy Department,starting last November
-- with the exception of the month of January -- the U.S. began exporting more
petroleum products than it imported.
This is not the source I got the idea from, its been in the news quite
a bit lately, this is just the first google hit I tried.
The theory is that between the recession (thus less use of fuel, both
supply side and demand), conservation/efficiency, and more recent hi-tech
oil/gas exploitation (horizontal drilling), the US consumption has dropped and
the production has increased, causing a net surplus.
It certainly is surprising.
-- Owen
On Mon, Feb 27, 2012 at 6:54 PM, Hugh Trenchard <htrench...@shaw.ca>
wrote:
Where did you see that the US is now a net oil exporter? The
attachments below are 2008 and 2009, but I suspect the picture hasn't changed
much since then (US imports 75% of its oil for consumption). I believe I saw
reference to "potential exporter" in the NY Times article.
http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/graphic/2008/07/26/GR2008072601599.html
http://www.flickr.com/photos/gdsdigital/4056035804/
----- Original Message -----
From: Owen Densmore
To: Complexity Coffee Group
Sent: Monday, February 27, 2012 9:14 AM
Subject: [FRIAM] A Good Question - Should the United States join
OPEC?
Now for something completely different:
http://www.nytimes.com/2012/02/26/opinion/sunday/friedman-a-good-question.html
Basically whether or not the US should join OPEC now that it is a
net oil exporter.
Insane as it sounds, there is some reason in the discussion.
-- Owen
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FRIAM Applied Complexity Group listserv
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FRIAM Applied Complexity Group listserv
Meets Fridays 9a-11:30 at cafe at St. John's College
lectures, archives, unsubscribe, maps at http://www.friam.org
============================================================
FRIAM Applied Complexity Group listserv
Meets Fridays 9a-11:30 at cafe at St. John's College
lectures, archives, unsubscribe, maps at http://www.friam.org
============================================================
FRIAM Applied Complexity Group listserv
Meets Fridays 9a-11:30 at cafe at St. John's College
lectures, archives, unsubscribe, maps at http://www.friam.org
------------------------------------------------------------------------------
============================================================
FRIAM Applied Complexity Group listserv
Meets Fridays 9a-11:30 at cafe at St. John's College
lectures, archives, unsubscribe, maps at http://www.friam.org============================================================
FRIAM Applied Complexity Group listserv
Meets Fridays 9a-11:30 at cafe at St. John's College
lectures, archives, unsubscribe, maps at http://www.friam.org
