Keith,[snip]
Just for the record, I would like to state that there is no absolutely clear evidence from biology, anthropology, or sociology that states unequivocally that it is part of human nature to stive for status to the detriment of others.
I don't think we know how much "competitive instinct" "we" have, and if "we" do have any, probably some persons have more of it than others. But prudence seems to me to suggest that we act "conservatively", and assume there is a fair amount of competitive spirit "in us". I don't have the citation at hand, but Gregory Bateson described some primitive cultures in which competition was highly prized, and some in which competition was much disparaged. The former societies were, if I remember right, highly unstable; the latter were more "conformist" than we would like, but they were in no danger of self-destructing. So the anthroplogical evidence seems to suggest that low competition societies can be viable.
As for primates, supposedly the bonobos are our closest relatives, and they are peaceful but have a lot of sex. Keith: Are you so sure we are not like the bonobos?
I don't think we can eliminate competition from our social life. But I think we, certainly in America, "nurture" it way too much, to the point that persons have no choice other than to compete (for jobs, etc.), whether they want to or not.
I am only arguing against interpersonal competition. I suggested that we "mobilize" to *FIGHT* our natural enemies and the evils we have created in our social world, e.g., wasteful energy consumption and pollution. I don't cry for the moon of some kind of zombieland (like the movie "The Truman Show" faked up, e.g.), but for lowering the anxiety/insecurity level of life, and getting more persons more interested in "beating" AIDS than in beating the Jets (or the Mets or the Wizards or the whatevers).
Keith speaks about the buzzards' 1% surplus of energy input vs energy output. But if buzzards survive on such a narow margin, don't they do it in an environment that reached equilibrium long ago? Isn't our environment nowhere near equilibrium?
The 20th century has been called the century of total war. WWI, WWII, etc. Clearly "peaceful" competitive pursuits did not preserve the peace, unless one considers the enormous amount of energy (money, etc.) that went into The Cold War as having been "peace", whereas had all those resources gone into what are normally called peaceful pursuits, our world today might almost be a desirable kind of utopia.
I'm not an expert, but the social "world" I find myself living in does not make good sense to me, and I do try to understand it.
Lke the old cartoon of the two armies facine each other, and the officer on each side give the order: "Fire!" --> and the troops on each side do fire: they each shoot their own officer. (This is meant here as a metaphor!)
\brad mccormick
----- Original Message ----- From: "Keith Hudson" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>[snip]
[snip]Brad,
At 08:23 27/09/2003 -0400, you wrote:
I think there is time to teach both science and technology to address Keith's concerns, and also for some liberal arts experience -- if we dump the "crap", among whcih I would include all forms of interpersonal competition, competition in sports, competition for grades, etc.
But why do you keep crying for the moon? We may be primates+, but we are
still primates and for several million years, intra-group competition for
status and inter-group fighting for dominance has been built into our
genes. We can't get rid of these traits. Once we have the wisdom to accept
that we can never change these, then we can start to seriously consider
what sorts of institutions we need so that these inevitable conflicts are
confined to as small a scope as possible. By trying to ignore these
predispositions or by trying to overlay them with impossible ideals -- which never succeed, or at least not for long -- we are not tackling the
problem, but just waiting for the next big catastrophe or the next big
war.
-- Let your light so shine before men, that they may see your good works.... (Matt 5:16)
Prove all things; hold fast that which is good. (1 Thes 5:21)
<![%THINK;[SGML+APL]]> Brad McCormick, Ed.D. / [EMAIL PROTECTED] ----------------------------------------------------------------- Visit my website ==> http://www.users.cloud9.net/~bradmcc/
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