On Thu, Aug 20, 2009 at 12:01 PM, Niall Pemberton<niall.pember...@gmail.com> wrote: > On Thu, Aug 20, 2009 at 9:12 AM, ant elder<ant.el...@gmail.com> wrote: >> On Thu, Aug 20, 2009 at 8:15 AM, Bertrand >> Delacretaz<bdelacre...@apache.org> wrote: >>> On Wed, Aug 19, 2009 at 7:15 PM, Ted Leung<twle...@sauria.com> wrote: >>>> >>>> On Aug 19, 2009, at 10:01 AM, William A. Rowe, Jr. wrote: >>>> >>>>> Exactly. The incubator enforces Best Practices even when these are poorly >>>>> documented or incomplete, and discusses why they should be normalized. >>>> >>>> And how is this PMC supposed to enforce something which might be incomplete >>>> or contradictory? I have no problem with enforcement, but I have a lot of >>>> problems with saying >>>> >>>>> In the meantime, we have dozens of projects who are here to learn the >>>>> *right* way to build code and communities >>>> >>>> when we can't even agree / document what that *right* way is.... >>> >>> I agree with Bill that it's a good thing for the Incubator to clarify >>> best practices, and teach podlings to follow them even if older >>> projects sometimes don't. We tend to do the same for our kids, don't >>> we ? ;-) >>> >>> And I agree with Ted that it's often very hard for podlings (or even >>> mentors) to find out what those best practices are, without reading >>> tons of sometimes stale discussions here. >>> >>> Something like legal's "previously asked questions" >>> (http://apache.org/legal/resolved.html) would help a lot. We could >>> discuss things like this LICENSE and NOTICE matter here, vote on the >>> outcome and document the question and answer there, with a permanent >>> URL that points to the question. >>> >>> I'm willing to help maintain such a page if people think that's a good idea. >>> >>> -Bertrand >>> >> >> Having trouble finding where to reply on this thread so I'll just go >> here at the bottom... >> >> I don't have any issue with trying to teach poddlings best practices >> being a good idea, but i don't think the way we're handling poddling >> releases is doing that. The debate about separate vs single LICENSE >> files has become a bit of a distraction, even in the recent Cassandra >> release that was just one of a whole list of issues brought up. >> >> I think a big cause of frustration for poddlings and mentors is the >> unpredictable nature of release reviews with each vote for a release >> or RC respin getting a different set of best practice requirements >> depending on who is around to review. Could we make following "best >> practices" what ever we decide those are a graduation requirement >> instead of a release requirement? So releases which don't clearly >> violate some ASF policy are voted out quickly and its the poddling >> graduation that is delayed until they've done a release we're all >> happy with. > > I understand theres frustration, but usually its short_term - once a > podling has resolved the issues that people raise then the next > release should be easier / have less comments. All these issues about > whether something is or is not policy or just someones view of best > practice is, in my experience, what happens elsewhere in projects when > it comes to releases. At the end of the day if you want someone to > vote +1 on a release then release managers need to address peoples > feedback. If they ignore feedback that is nice-to-have but not > absolute requirements then they risk that person not voting or > bothering to review a release next time. Being a release manager takes > patience and judgement/negotiation about whether something needs to be > fixed for a release or can be left till next time and this is > something that will happen once a project graduates and not just here.
There are two differences between here and elsewhere releases that are making that not work so well here: 1) The group of people reviewing Incubator releases is much more variable compared to a TLP PMC 2) The people voting on Incubator releases are usually not on the poddling dev/commit lists so don't give input during the release preparation > If there are improvements that can be made to policy/docs then great, > but complaining about feedback rather than appreciating that someone > took the trouble to review a release is a mistake IMO. > Several improvements have been suggested on this thread so far, the two mains ones are: - hold the release votes on the poddling mailing lists not general@ - make complying with "best practices" a graduation requirement not a release requirement I'll go start a separate thread on the first of those to see what people think. ...ant > Niall > --------------------------------------------------------------------- To unsubscribe, e-mail: general-unsubscr...@incubator.apache.org For additional commands, e-mail: general-h...@incubator.apache.org
