On 1/5/02 9:53 PM, "Andrew C. Oliver" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> On 1/5/02 7:28 PM, "Ted Husted" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > >> I am not trying to be combative - I have watched this thread (and >> participated) with growing discomfort. I have to say that I think that >> bringing XML and Jakarta together might destroy the thing we are >> supposedly >> trying to 'save' (again, I don't get the problem...), namely the >> community >> that each group has. Larger isn't always better. > > I kinda agree with you on that. Ted didn't write that. I did. > >>>> I also think we are more than ready for a POI vote, if someone were > to >>> post an actual proposal, including the list of committers. >>> In that proposal, can it be argued why it belongs here? I have tried >> to sit >> on the fence, and I am glad Stefano will step up to champion the >> project, >> but I also think that if he scope of Jakarta is confusing now, adding a >> vendor-specific desktop document API (granted, with server-side uses) >> will >> add to it. > >> There was recent talk for other "clearly client" projects to be added, >> with >> the same apparent quality of code and health of community - why not >> bundle >> the two as a seed for a new Apache client-focused project to be a peer >> to >> jakarta and XML and ...? If you have used any of the pure Java IDE's >> lately, it's clear that Java has indeed matured enough for use on the >> desktop, and initiatives on other client-side devices such as phones, >> PDA's, >> etc make for a very rich opportunity for Apache. Further, meta-API >> initiatives like Liberty which span both server and client (of all >> types) >> are clearly in Apache's interest, so I believe that a client-focused >> Apache >> project is appropriate for that reason as well. > I also wrote that, not Ted. > > Maybe its not yet time for a vote. Let me state this again and make it > very clear. POI has many users and many uses. No one I know of is > using POI on the client. Maybe you have some marketing problems? :) > POI is as client-side as Tomcat is. Why do you say that? It is used on the server side, and that's fantastic, but in my opinion (note that I recognize I am a complete outsider to your project who would be defined as a user) it seems client side. If I had a need for something like this (and I bet I will at some point), and I had the choice to look at either a) jakarta, the apache java server-side focused project or b) floccinoccinihilipilificator*, the apache java client-side project I would choose b), as I think of word and excel as a client-side thingy. No matter that my use is server-side... > (Tomcat is > used by Netbeans a pure Java-IDE on the client!). HTML is for use on > the client right? Yep. But its a markup definition, not an API implementation. > So is a library that outputs in HTML is clientside or > serverside? Serverside generally, as the canonical model of HTML use is the web, with a clear delineation of server and client. However, it indeed has clientside uses - take for example any help system that outputs HTML within a monolithic desktop application. Conversely, I would argue that Excel is a totally client-side technology, and therefore a library that works with XLS files is clientside generally as the canonical model of Excel is on the desktop. However, it indeed has serverside uses.... > Cocoon publishes documents that are generally read on the > client right? Yes, but it's more than an API, right? (I don't know much about cocoon...) >From what I read, POI is an API that accesses data in XLS files... Theres a huge difference. And Cocoon isn't part of Jakarta, is it? :) I don't necessarily think that xml.apache.org is the right place either, although I am not a member of that community in any way shape or form, so that opinion is worth the bits through which it was transmitted. I think that a client project peer to jakarta is still the right place, at least worth discussing, as we have the interesting temporal convergence of the proposal of multiple client side projects when java on the client side is becoming a much more interesting space to work. > > Please read these posts and then tell me where you're not clear? > > http://www.mail-archive.com/general%40jakarta.apache.org/msg02681.html > http://www.mail-archive.com/general%40jakarta.apache.org/msg02685.html > http://www.mail-archive.com/general%40jakarta.apache.org/msg02690.html I will. > > POI::HSSF reads or generates XLS files and is nearly always used on the > server . OF all POI's users not one person is using it on the client. > Please check out http://poi.sourceforge.net. The page describes its > usage I will. Note I spent years supporting Excel 'stuff' in the financial industry as part of a project I led, and every user I knew was client-side. You may just be ahead of your time :) -- Geir Magnusson Jr. [EMAIL PROTECTED] System and Software Consulting "We will be judged not by the monuments we build, but by the monuments we destroy" - Ada Louise Huxtable -- To unsubscribe, e-mail: <mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]> For additional commands, e-mail: <mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
