Hi, [EMAIL PROTECTED] ha scritto: > On Tue, Aug 28, 2007 at 11:39:44PM +0200, b.n. wrote: > >> His knowledge of English grammar and vocabulary has nothing to do with >> the actual *contents* of his mail, it has to do with just the errors of >> spelling and grammar. I'm sure he would have done the same in his mother >> language. > ... >> Let's end it here. > > No, let's not. What do you know of his native language and culture? > I traveled a bit in my misspent youth, learned a bit of different > languages and cultures, and was constantly amazed at how some of my > most basic assumptions about language and culture were upset in > different countries. It may well be that in his native language and > culture, his was a well reasoned (allowing for poor grammer and > spelling) opening remark in a discussion.
Well, it may well be and I agree with you it is a sensible possibility. But that's not my problem, it's his problem. Rude? Non-politically correct? Uncaring? Maybe -but who cares of such moral judgements (that are BTW culture-dependent too, as you of course know and I fully agree). The problem is a technical one -see later. > Just because it did not > come across as a "proper" English question does not mean it wasn't > meant to start a reasonable discussion in his own language and > culture. Possible. But he's addressing an English language mailing list, speaking in English, in a mailing list of -mostly- Western or Western-like culture (being it native or brought by the West throughout history, it doesn't matter). It's not that Western culture or the Western languages have something better than others by themselves, of course. But -like it or not- they are the standard here on this ML. It's up to him adopting the standard -not me using his own, otherwise the whole purpose of a (linguistic, cultural, netiquette) standard falls down. For example, I actually like top-posting sometimes (I think it has its place in netiquette if properly used). But the Gentoo ML doesn't like it because the standard is another and mixing standards would make reading the ML a mess. Well, it costs me nothing to adopt that standard, and (most importantly) it has practical reasons. So I follow it. The years I was a punk, rebeling for rebellion's sake, are gone with my adolescence (unfortunately :) I hate rules when they have no practical meaning, but when they make sense, well, they make sense. There are highly practical reasons for the "do not post rants to ask for help" unwritten rule: it pollutes the ML, creates useless discussions (like this one, even if I actually like it) and more often than not it doesn't help the OP (if he really wanted to be helped). I understand "tolerance". It's one of my favourite words, actually. But tolerance doesn't mean bowing down (as it is sadly often understood today). Tolerance means to get along with -but sometimes this get along requires an effort on some part. So I didn't attacked him with meaningless insults: I told him exactly what should have he done (write the rant on a blog -legit and even advisable) and why should have he done it (here his post is a waste of time, pure and simple). > It is incredibly arrogant to think that you know all about his > background just because the only thing you know you have in common is > that Engish is not your native language. No, I don't know anything about his background: but most importantly, *I shouldn't have to know anything*. I do not care about his background, nor I do want to, nor I do have to. We're on a technical mailing list that follows some conventions, and it's up to the new user of the ML understanding that. Following your line of reasoning, we're going to get along with people to post mails in Chinese or Italian or Finnish by just saying "oh well, it's up to us learning Chinese/Italian/Finnish, it's their culture, poor sons". We're going to get along with spammers and trolls because "it's their culture": where is the fine line between tolerance for your culture and non-tolerance of questionable behaviour? Technically if I'm a GNAA troll, it's a part of my own personal subculture. So you should deal with it patiently and with deep understanding? You remember maybe that months ago there was a fellow that posted something about an initiative about the mass killing of dolphins. I personally love dolphins and I hate when animals are killed without a reason. Still, I was among the many asking him to spam his s**t away. Why? Because if we begin to allow absurdly OT content, the whole purpose of a topical ML falls down. It's necessary for the survival and meaning of the ML tool itself. So, we have to find an algorithm to deal with it. There are a number of conventions that are better being followed, in this ML, on the Net, in life (there are also other that are IMHO better NOT being followed, or that are practically neutral, but that's another problem). He broke that in a disruptive manner. He is advised to change that or go away. That's what those things work. If you don't like it, don't use it and/or fork it. m. -- [EMAIL PROTECTED] mailing list
