Hey Mat,

 

OK, let’s not bore the list too much, so I’ll just briefly respond to some
of these points below:

 

 

Dr. Wil Burns, Editor in Chief

Journal of International Wildlife Law & Policy

1702 Arlington Blvd.

El Cerrito, CA 94530 USA

Ph:   650.281.9126

Fax: 510.779.5361

 <mailto:[email protected]>
[email protected]

 <http://www.jiwlp.com/> http://www.jiwlp.com

SSRN site (selected publications):  <http://ssrn.com/author=240348>
http://ssrn.com/author=240348

Skype ID: Wil.Burns

 

From: Matthew Paterson [mailto:[email protected]] 
Sent: Sunday, December 20, 2009 8:33 AM
To: [email protected]; 'Radoslav Dimitrov'; 'Global Environmental
Politics Education ListServe'
Subject: Re: Copenhagen result

 

Wil, you raise a lot of issues here, we could end up with a long (and
interesting debate). A few reactions, following your numbering.

1. we did know that it was highly likely that we’d only get a political
agreement, although it is worth noting there was always an (outside) chance
that enough KP parties might say it was worth inserting new numbers into a
second KP commitment period, alongside this political declartation including
non-KP countries, notably the US. But this declaration is a hell of a lot
weaker than many observers expected, and I’d say was absolutely possible
before the start of the Copenhagen talks. The numbers in terms of emissions
reductions already on the table were (while obviously inadequate to deal
with Tuvalu’s problems or to get to a 2C overall goal) were broadly
consistent enough that you could imagine a deal aroudn them – even those
weren’t in the final version, although they say they’re going to put numbers
in by Feb. The US-China monitoring spat seems incomprehensible from the
outside, since the US itself wants a relatively light multilateral
monitoring of emissions reporting (consequently it’s not certain that your
point 4a is correct). And so on – on every issue a deal seemed possible,
they’ve come up with the weakest version.



·     I would suggest “many observers” were a bit pie in the sky. One of the
reasons that I decided to set out Copenhagen is that there were a tremendous
number of signs from the U.S., China, and India in the month heading into
Copenhagen that the process was going to generate a fairly weak agreement.
As to the emissions pledges, there’s a big difference between folks making
pledges and being willing at this point to lock into them in a legal
framework.


2. on legally binding. You’re right of course that international law is weak
in terms of enforcement. But you’re wrong that ‘many’ Annex B countries will
fail to meet their Kyoto targets – the EU will get there easily enough, as
will (for hot air reasons) most ex-soviet countries. NZ still has some to do
but has set up a system which will mean it will buy hot air in effect.
Australia and Japan aren’t too far off. Only really Canada is way off, and I
despair at the idiots in charge of the country I moved to. So the q to my
mind is not about enforcement, but rather about (a) the set of expectations
that the term ‘legally binding’ sets up amongst states – that they tend to
behave differently in the context of such a status to an agreement – here
I’d claim that if Kyoto had just been a ‘political declaration’ then I can’t
see the EU having set about achieving its targets so thoroughly without the
legal status (although that’s a judgement call of course), and (b) you can’t
set up any sort of institutional arrangements such as the CDM without the
‘legal’ status of an agreement. And Kyoto compliance overall for the Annex B
countries (they will get there collectively, canadian rubbishness being
outweighed by russian hot air) has been driven by the Kyoto-CDM-EU ETS
relationship, which couldn’t have existed without a legal agreement. 



·     The EU is only meeting its targets because the expansion, which
brought in a lot of former Soviet entities whose economies (and thus
emissions) collapsed in the 1990s and early twenty first century. Peel them
away and you have a large number of EU states (Italy, Austria, Ireland) who
aren’t going to make it (some by very large margins), and even purported
stalwarts in the process e.g. the UK largely will meet their commitments
because of exogenous factors, like shutting down large swaths of the coal
industry. Until the recession, UK emissions, for example, were rising at
levels clearly not in line with the KP;

·     You could certainly set up mechanisms like the CDM (which,
incidentally, has produced almost nothing in terms of emissions reductions,
and has wrought things like the HCFC scandals in China that may have
resulted in a net negative impact on the environment) without KP, through
bilateral agreements, so at least in terms of multilateral agreements, I
don’t think so. And again, the flexible mechanisms may be a poor rationale
for binding international agreements;

·     If we get to the KP target through hot air, the agreement is indeed a
chimera, and while you might be able to fool the public, you can’t fool the
atmosphere.

 


3. I tend to agree on this ‘realist’ point, although one thing this misses
is that the multilateral process has become much more focused on adapation
in recent years, and there those countries (not venezuela, but the AOSIS and
african states) are crucial. 

·     Since I spend a lot of time working on small island state issues, let
me get even more realist. If we establish a large adaptation fund, AOSIS and
African States will not walk away and let their brethren in the rest of the
developing world reap the largesse alone. Don’t get me wrong, I subscribe to
the African/AOSIS positions almost jot for jot; I just don’t think their
lack of endorsement of the quasi-decision at Copenhagen makes a lot of
difference in the long term to the rest of the world, or their own decision
making in the longer term, including in the context of adaptation protocols.
And folks like Venezuela, who are clearly a big part of the problem in terms
of fossil fuel production, were engaged in political theatre from where I
stand.

 



4. I’ll just raise two points here – one is that the money is totally
unclear on details – whether it’s additional money from states, whether its
expectations of flows from offset markets (CDM or otherwise), wheher its
additional to existing aid, etc. And while forest people love REDD, if it’s
included in an offset mechanism like the CDM, which it looks like it will
be, this could be a disaster, taking away incentives for actual emissions
reductions in the Annex I/B countries. An interesting aside here is that
while in the negotiations much was being heralded for REDD, in the carbon
market meetings IETA was running, there were workshops on how the hell you
might make money out of a REDD project – they are of the view it’s probalby
not a very cheap option. That might save us in fact. 

·     I don’t disagree with you that REDD could turn out to be an apparition
also; it’s my hope that we have learned from the lessons of the flexibility
mechanisms, and there is some evidence that a lot more emphasis is being
placed on verifiability and monitoring, but you definitely could be right.

wil




Enough for now.

Mat

-- 
Matthew Paterson
École d'études politiques, Université d'Ottawa 
Ottawa, Ontario, K1N 6N5
tel: +1 613 562-5800 x1716

Web site:
http://www.socialsciences.uottawa.ca/pol/eng/profdetails.asp?ID=123
And http://matpaterson.wordpress.com/
Co-editor, Global Environmental Politics:
http://www.mitpressjournals.org/loi/glep
Latest books "Climate capitalism: global warming and the transformation of
the global economy" (with Peter Newell)
http://www.cambridge.org/us/catalogue/catalogue.asp?isbn=0521194857
And "Cultural Political Economy" (edited, with Jacqueline Best)
http://www.routledgepolitics.com/books/Cultural-Political-Economy-isbn978041
5489324




  _____  

From: Wil Burns <[email protected]>
Reply-To: <[email protected]>
Date: Sun, 20 Dec 2009 07:42:53 -0800
To: 'Radoslav Dimitrov' <[email protected]>, 'Global Environmental
Politics Education ListServe' <[email protected]>
Subject: RE: Copenhagen result

I think amidst all of the (legitimate) gloom about the results at
Copenhagen, we should emphasize a couple of things:
 
1.         It was known well before the meeting that we were likely to only
get a political declaration from Copenhagen; in many ways, I think the media
hyped the final stages of the meeting as some kind of unraveling of
consensus, when most folks expected no more than a broad-brushed agreement
that wasn’t legally binding;

2.         I know this may sound like heresy from someone from the
international law side of the equation, but I think the emphasis on securing
a legally binding decision from the Parties to the UNFCCC or KP is a bit of
a chimera. What does it mean for an agreement to be “legally binding” when
one looks at both the architecture of the UNFCCC and the Kyoto Protocol (and
any likely successor agreement, either as an amendment to the KP or a
standalone treaty)? Kyoto is a legally binding agreement, and many of the
Annex I Parties will fail, in some cases abjectly, to meet their emissions
reductions obligations under the treaty. What is the penalty for this? Well,
there’s an enforcement mechanism, but subject to acceptance through the
amendment process, and even then, any individual party can opt out. At the
end of the day, it’s diplomacy and self-interest, broadly defined, that will
probably ultimately determine the success of any agreement that the Parties
arrive at in Mexico City and beyond. I think the presence of the regimes
helps to develop and strengthen norms, but the reality is that no one is
going to be hauled in front of the ICJ or any other body for failing to meet
their “legally binding” obligations under the climate agreements (in fact,
if you look at the UNFCCC, your only recourse is to conciliation unless the
other party to any given dispute expressly consents to a legally binding
dispute resolution mechanism);

3.         Let me get even more realist here. While it would be nice to have
the likes of Vanuatu and Venezuela on board with this document, in the long
term, the planet will be saved, or doomed, by the top ten major GHG
emitters, especially the U.S. and China, responsible for about 50% of the
world’s emissions (with China not slated to have emissions 60% higher than
the U.S. by 2020). 

4.         Let’s also not forget the positive outgrowths of Copenhagen:

a.                   The call for Bali for developing countries to engage in
“nationally appropriate mitigation actions” has been translated into a
pledge to do so by the major emitting developing countries, and there will
be some kind of national and international protocols developed for
verification;

b.                  A commitment by developed countries to mobilize more
than $30 billion for funding mitigation programs for developing countries in
three years, and a serious effort to mobilize $100 billion by 2020. One
needs to be extremely skeptical about this pledge, given the fact that a
similar commitment after Marrakesh for a mere $400 million never transpired,
but a number of countries, including Japan and Germany, have in recent
months put some real money on the table, and so we may be turning the corner
on this issue. I don’t foresee reaching the point where mitigation or
adaptation funding is recognized on the grounds of liability under the
polluter pays principle, as developing countries would wish, so developing
countries will still have to rely on the kindness of strangers, but the
train at least appears on the track at this point;

c.                   The establishment of a High Level panel to explore
potential sources of revenue for the Copenhagen Green Climate Fund, which
could provide serious funding for both mitigation and adaptation programs.

d.                  A broad framework has been formulated for Reductions
from Emissions from Deforestation and Degradation, a source of emissions
greater than all transportation sources combined. If a REDD agreement can be
reached at Mexico City, it might both eventually lead to substantial
reductions in emission, as well as help to institutionalize cooperation
between developed and developing countries, the latter of which will account
for the lion’s share of emission by the middle of this century.


So, while I would have hoped for infinitely more from Copenhagen, it’s
important to remember that we may have kicked the can forward a bit! wil
 


Dr. Wil Burns, Editor in Chief
Journal of International Wildlife Law & Policy
1702 Arlington Blvd.
El Cerrito, CA 94530 USA
Ph:  650.281.9126
Fax: 510.779.5361
[email protected]
<mailto:[email protected]>
<mailto:[email protected]> 
http://www.jiwlp.com  <http://www.jiwlp.com/> <http://www.jiwlp.com/> 
SSRN site (selected publications): http://ssrn.com/author=240348
<http://ssrn.com/author=240348> <http://ssrn.com/author=240348> 
Skype ID: Wil.Burns


From: [email protected]
[mailto:[email protected]] On Behalf Of Radoslav
Dimitrov
Sent: Sunday, December 20, 2009 7:10 AM
To: Global Environmental Politics Education ListServe
Subject: Copenhagen result

The political declaration by heads of states names the Copenhagen Accord was
not formally adopted. To the horror of most delegations, seven countries
opposed the Accord: Tuvalu, Nicaragua, Bolivia, Cuba, Venezuela, Pakistan
and Saudi Arabia. They stressed there is no consensus and the Accord cannot
be officially adopted. The meeting was suspended and after several hours of
frantic efforts, a compromise was reached. A COP decision was made to not
adopt but “Take note of the Copenhagen Accord of 18 December 2009,” attach
the Accord in an Appendix and list the countries who support the accord.
The mandate for negotiations was extended but the reference to “legally
binding” outcome of 2010 negotiations was taken out. AOSIS, Japan, Russia,
the EU, and Norway supported “legally binding.” India, China, Brazil, Saudi
and the US opposed. However, the US was soft and merely said it is better
not to prejudge legal nature of outcome. Similar exchange on KP AWG mandate.
South Africa wanted to ensure AWG KP leads to Kyoto 2 and proposed "adoption
of KP amendment at COP16." Japan and Russia opposed. End result: the mandate
of the two AWGs is extended for one year but no mention of what negotiations
are supposed to lead to (what kind of agreement the end product is supposed
to be). There will be two 2010 sessions: Bonn in May/June, and COP16 in
Mexico November/December.

Merry Chritmas to all!

 

Radoslav S. Dimitrov, Ph.D.
Associate Professor
Department of Political Science
University of Western Ontario
Social Science Centre
London, Ontario
Canada N6A 5C2
Tel. +1(519) 661-2111 ext. 85023
Fax +1(519) 661-3904
Email: [email protected] 
 

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