Re: RE: RE: [GRN] Antonio Costa and Marcelo Rebelo de Sousa, the president of Portugal

Fri, 10 May 2024 03:05:33 -0700

Dear Sandra,
 
I just wanted to let you know I have just received a copy of Constitucionalismo e Império which I had ordered. It seems most interesting and I am soon going to start reading it. I would like to thank you for the suggestion, which will enable me to learn a lot more about this most interesting subject.
 
Best wishes
 
Nuno
 
 
Sent: Monday, May 06, 2024 at 9:02 AM
From: "sandra lobo" <sandral...@netcabo.pt>
To: "goa-research-net@googlegroups.com" <goa-research-net@googlegroups.com>
Subject: RE: RE: [GRN] Antonio Costa and Marcelo Rebelo de Sousa, the president of Portugal
Hello Nuno,
 
I was not expressing any opinion on the reparation movement. I was replying to João Paulo's opinions that Angola needs the colonialists for being uncapable of governing itself and that Portuguese colonialism, even during Estado Novo, was not racist and promoted equality between peoples. I believe that you share the last opinion, in your evaluation of the historical profile of Portuguese colonialism, regarding which you see Estado Novo as a break. Amilcar Cabral affirmed that if an African could be President of the country most probably would have no reasons to want to become independent. For me that impossibility translates the basic nature of colonialism. Does this mean that we should abdicate from a complexified look at colonialism? I believe it should not. I think it is our duty as historians, as I believe it is to help the acknowledgement of the "others" in us and to help the promotion of hospitality and of social justice. 
 
Now, regarding your arguments. I do believe that the enunciation of a certain body of principles by a state is important and itself carries a transformative potential with practical consequences. That is why I think that we need to give importance to the rupture regarding the liberal and republican political tradition introduced by Estado Novo and the Acto Colonial, as while the firsts tried to solve, the tensions between colonial domination and the acknowledgement of universal of individual and collective rights of man inherited from the eighteenth century by conceptualizing a pluricontinental nation-state, the lasts basically refused such inheritance. The question lays on understanding if such contradiction was actually fully addressed by the liberals and republicans both constitutionally and in practice. I believe it was not - even at the level of principles the discussion was never closed and since the Berlin Conference its terms suffered a change with structural impact - although it helped local elites to convoke such principles and to develop a political consciousness. Among other studies, I do vividly counsel the reading of Cristina Nogueira da Silva's work, starting with Constitucionalismo e Império. A cidadania no Ultramar português (2009) and A Construção jurídica dos territórios ultramarinos portugueses no século XIX (2017). Your argument regarding the identitarian tool offered by Portuguese as a common language is interesting. As you know, who are actually working on that are the African postcolonial countries for a set of reasons. The discussion of "tribalism" would take us far...
 
best wishes,
 
Sandra
 

 

 

Sandra Ataíde Lobo  

         

Home (gieipc-ip.org)                              https://praticasdahistoria.pt/

tmn. ++351 930690459

 
 
De: 'Nuno Cardoso da Silva' via Goa-Research-Net <goa-research-net@googlegroups.com>
Enviado: 5 de maio de 2024 09:37
Para: goa-research-net@googlegroups.com <goa-research-net@googlegroups.com>
Assunto: Re: RE: [GRN] Antonio Costa and Marcelo Rebelo de Sousa, the president of Portugal
 
Sandra,
 
You make some valid points, but the "Estatuto do Indigenato" and the "Ato Colonial" were completely at odds with the Portuguese overseas traditions. In the 19th century the so called "colonies" were always referred to as "Províncias Ultramarinas", which elected members to Parliament in Lisbon, and the minister in charge of them was always called "Secretário da Marinha e Ultramar", not "colonies". And the Ato Colonial, as well as the Estatuto do Indigenato, were abolished in 1961 because they did not fit our traditional relationship with the overseas. Yes, we colaborated with the slave trade and forced labour was not uncommon in the African territories, but our influence in those territories was not all negative. Speaking only of Angola - where I lived for three years - I have no doubt that the strong feeling of national identity, the lack of tribal strife, the benefits of a common language, the strong economy, were very much due to the way we ruled Angola for over 400 years. Yes, colonization, any colonization, is a vile violation of people's rights, and we should not try to ever justify it. But, in the end, I believe we did more good than evil. And while the evil part remains as part of history, the good things are helping to build solid, prosperous countries. No reparations are needed, only the recognition of the evil things we were responsible for, which we do. Marcelo should have kept his mouth shut...
 
Best wishes
 
Nuno
 
 
Sent: Sunday, May 05, 2024 at 8:44 AM
From: "sandra lobo" <sandral...@netcabo.pt>
To: "goa-research-net@googlegroups.com" <goa-research-net@googlegroups.com>
Subject: RE: [GRN] Antonio Costa and Marcelo Rebelo de Sousa, the president of Portugal
Hello João Paulo,
 
I totally agree with you. In 1975, 85% of the population in Angola did not face the burden of knowing to read and write and enjoyed the benefit of until 1974 of being protected from the of terrorists at the service of unsound ambitions of those who are now colonizing them. Until  1961, the Estado Novo cared so much for their development that even offered them a special statute, that Angolans still lament to have fallen, the famous "Estatuto do Indigenato" applicable to the black population that was still not able to understand the benefits of Portuguese civilizational mission due to its backwardness. The protection they enjoyed, according to the 1954 statute, forced by the international devious pressure, still included the salvation of the mission to educating the natives to the value of work, the protection of their unpreparenees to take decisions on their own life like have the State regulating the right to change residency, the right to have prison sentences transformed in forced labor, to compulsory serve at the army to take deviant fellows back to the right track, all that viewing the ultimate aim in the mind of any Angolan, that of becoming a citizen with the privilege of having a special ID citizens card where his/her conditions to hold it where especified. They indeed, need us Portuguese to go back there.
 
Best wishes,
 
Sandra
 
 
De: goa-research-net@googlegroups.com <goa-research-net@googlegroups.com> em nome de Joao Paulo Cota <joao_c...@hotmail.com>
Enviado: 4 de maio de 2024 23:55
Para: albert...@sapo.pt <albert...@sapo.pt>; goa-research-net@googlegroups.com <goa-research-net@googlegroups.com>
Assunto: Re: [GRN] Antonio Costa and Marcelo Rebelo de Sousa, the president of Portugal
 
Dear Alberto,
I am aware of the struggles of the locals with the Portuguese colonial government.
However I was a kid then and I stand by my words as that was what I had experienced.
There was equality in school where I studied (two of my best mates was a white and a black) and we were three always inseparable.
At work, my father did have friends of both colours and noticed nothing wrong with race. 
My mother had house staff, but we had treated them as family.
The sad thing about Angola was not about Portuguese rule but about the 30 year civil war that commenced soon after the Portuguese left the place.
That showed how pathetic and stupid Angolan natives are, they have independence and then they go all out to kill each other - instead of enjoying freedom.
And then elect rulers who loot the country in every conceivable way, father and daughter.
Fast forward 2024, Angolans are leaving and going to Portugal.
Why, missing the colonialists?
Or perhaps being incompetent and unable to govern themselves?
I am not trying to change any history. Angola's story is very sad and hurts me deeply as Angolan/Portuguese/Goan.
It should had been a great nation today, but people there do not have the capability to govern themselves.
They are now under economic colonialists China rule and nobody seems to be making noise about it.
Sorry to say but you need the colonialists back to take care of the country, it has gone to the dogs, it was much better pre-1975
Regards,
Joao Paulo
 
 
From: albert...@sapo.pt <albert...@sapo.pt>
Sent: 04 May 2024 13:42
To: goa-research-net@googlegroups.com <goa-research-net@googlegroups.com>
Subject: Re: [GRN] Antonio Costa and Marcelo Rebelo de Sousa, the president of Portugal
 
Paulo. Please do not distort the true history of colonization.
Read, here, some excerpts from the president of Angola in Lisbon. Jornal de Angola.
He said - Allow me to begin by thanking President Marcelo Rebelo de Sousa for the kind invitation extended to us to participate in the celebrations of the Fiftieth Anniversary of April 25, 1974.
While the Portuguese people fought against fascism and the Salazar dictatorship since 1932, we, the African people colonized by Portugal, HAD BEEN FIGHTING SINCE THE 15TH CENTURY AGAINST PORTUGUESE COLONIZATION AND ITS CONSEQUENCES SUCH AS SLAVERY AND THE PLUNDERING OF OUR WEALTH.  
WE FOUGHT FOR AN END TO THE ABUSES, CRIMES AND VIOLATIONS OF HUMAN RIGHTS COMMITTED BY THE COLONIALIST REGIME AGAINST OUR PEOPLE FOR CENTURIES. WE FOUGHT FOR OUR DIGNITY AS HUMAN BEINGS, WHO MUST HAVE THE SAME RIGHT TO FREEDOM, THE RIGHT TO BE THE MASTERS OF OUR OWN DESTINY.
 
The armed struggles for our Independence in Guinea Bissau, Angola and Mozambique have reached such an advanced stage, especially after the failure of the Mar Verde operation, the assassination of Amílcar Cabral and the proclamation of Independence by the PAIGC in the hills of Madina de Boé in 1973 in Guinea Bissau, the fiasco of the Nó Górdio operation and the heavy losses inflicted by FRELIMO and the MPLA on Portuguese colonial troops in Mozambique and the North and East of Angola, which precipitated the events that led to the uprising and military coup of April 25, 1974 in Portugal.
Regards
Alberto 
 
 
I think I will agree with Nuno.
Portugal enriched itself with spices early in time more than it did in more recent times. It benefited mostly due to trade. It did not rob Goa and its people of anything like others did. And it developed the place quite well then.
The British pillaged more stuff from India like gold, diamonds and other precious stones, tea, etc.
The Spanish were terrible, it was mostly gold and silver from their South American possessions that impoverished these nations.
The French were worse, besides all the above, they have signed contracts with places like Haiti to have the colonies pay for damages to the slave owning colonisers! They are still paying a 1825 debt today, no wonder they are bankrupt.
Being born in Angola and grown up in Goa too, life in Portuguese colonies was different from those of other European powers then. In Angola were we lived it was paradise and the black people had also equal rights and quality of life. No discrimination like the British did in India and the French and Spanish did elsewhere.
One of the major contributions to Goa, the amazing drainage system, was destroyed by these BJP corrupt politicians who invent new ways to swindle the population.
India needs to do reparations to Goa for the damage it is doing to the state and for the money it is robbing its people.
Modern colonisers.
JP
 
From: 'Nuno Cardoso da Silva' via Goa-Research-Net <goa-research-net@googlegroups.com>
Sent: 26 April 2024 07:56
To: goa-research-net@googlegroups.com <goa-research-net@googlegroups.com>
Subject: Re: [GRN] Antonio Costa and Marcelo Rebelo de Sousa, the president of Portugal
 
Yes, throughout the centuries Portugal comitted crimes. Just like every other country on Earth. But we also helped to build. Without Portugal there would be no Goan State in India, and Goans would be a lot different, not necessarily better. Without Portugal there wouldn't be a great nation such as Brazil. There wouldn't be a great Angolan state, with a strong sense of identity, with a prosperous economy built on much of what Portugal built over four and a half centuries. There wouldn't have been a tolerant Timorese nation, so different from Indonesia. There wouldn't have been a marvellously mixed nation such a Cape Verde, where the colour of skin is completely irrelevant. We took a lot away from those countries, but I believe we gave back a lot more than we took. No reparations are needed.
 
Nuno Cardoso da Silva 
 
 
Sent: Thursday, April 25, 2024 at 11:56 AM
From: "'Pedro Mascarenhas' via Goa-Research-Net" <goa-research-net@googlegroups.com>
To: "Goa-Research-Net" <goa-research-net@googlegroups.com>
Subject: [GRN] Antonio Costa and Marcelo Rebelo de Sousa, the president of Portugal
 
 


The Portugal’s president, Marcelo Rebelo de Sousa, expressed some opinions  at an event with foreign journalists on Tuesday . ( In the month in which 50 years of democracy in Portugal - 25/04/2024)



 



 



 



He said António Costa, former prime-minister, son of a Goan, as someone reflective, the result of eastern ancestry, while Luís Montenegro, the new prime-minister, is “completely different”.



The head of state did not fail to analyze himself in this aspect. “I’m a hurried Westerner,” he defined.



The statement about Montenegro came when he explained how he saw the change of Government ahead of schedule. “He [Luís Montenegro] is a person who comes from a deep, urban-rural country, with rural behaviors. He is very curious, difficult to understand, precisely because of this.



Marcelo added that he “would be happy” and accustomed to António Costa's governance until 2026, but the dissolution of Parliament was necessary given his resignation as prime minister and secretary-general of the Socialist Party (PS).



 



 



In the interview with foreign journalists, the President of Portugal, Marcelo Rebelo de Sousa declared late on Tuesday that Portugal was responsible for crimes committed during transatlantic slavery and the colonial era, indicating a necessity for reparations.



 



 



  



https://www.dn.pt/6486274197/marcelo-faz-analises-e-comparacoes-entre-costa-e-luis-montenegro/



https://www.theguardian.com/world/2024/apr/24/portugal-pay-costs-slavery-colonialism-president



 



 



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