Eddie, I will not disagree with you as long as you prove it through an accredited Konkani dictionary that those words are Konkani words.
The portuguese words you mentioned (caril for curry, cha for tea, manga for mango, etc) are indeed included in any Portuguese dictionary. If you can find "Mankurad", "sucegad", "vistid", "jurament", etc in an accredited Konkani dictionary, I will stand corrected. Best regards, paulo. ----- Original Message ----- From: "Eddie Fernandes" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> To: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Cc: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Sent: Tuesday, April 23, 2002 1:21 AM Subject: Re: [Goanet] Re: TIMES: Balcony View > > Hi Paulo, > > This is fascinating! Pity we did not discuss the subject when we spoke at > length at the weekend! > > What I meant to convey is that all languages adapt and evolve. Though the > Portuguese called the variety Malcurada, there is nothing wrong in the > use of Konkani variant of Mankurad. > > Are you suggesting that the Americans are dishonouring the English language > by the use of the word honor? > > The two example you quote, "Rua Abade Faria Road" and "Hospicio Hospital" > are both semantically wrong, rather like asking someone for their " PIN > number." > > The other examples you quote of "corrupted" Portuguese words in Konkani. > But there probably are a greater number of "corrupted" Sanskrit and Hindi > words in the Portuguese language - caril for curry, cha for tea etc. > > Coming back to the mango: According to Hobson-Jobson (1886), the origin of > the word is mangay and is Tamil. The Portuguese "corrupted" the word to > manga. Hobson-Jobson has references to the fruit in manuscripts going back > to 1328 (go to http://www.bibliomania.com/2/3/260/frameset.html and search > for mango). In 1563 Garcia de Orta wrote that the best varieties of the > fruit were to be found in Gujarat and Ormuz. It was after this that the > Jesuits introduced better varieties through grafting. > > Besides Hobson-Jobson, there are two books you will find particularly > useful, both by S.R. Dalgado: 1. Influencia do Vocabulario Portugues em > Linguas Asiaticas, 1913. 2. Glossario Luso-Asiatico. 2 vols. 1921. Both > have extensive references to the mango. > > Regards, > Eddie Fernandes > ========================== > From: "Paulo Colaco Dias" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > To: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > Sent: Monday, April 22, 2002 10:51 PM > Subject: Re: [Goanet] Re: TIMES: Balcony View > > > > Hi Eddie, > > > > What language development are you talking about ? > > Konkani or Portuguese ? > > If Konkani, is there a new Konkani dictionary with the inclusion of these > > words ? > > > > The truth is our catholic Konkani is invaded by Portuguese and English > > words. Catholics in Goa talk a kind of Konkani which is not pure Konkani > > but includes lots of Portuguese and English words all mixed up. > > > > One needs to understand some of these words are not Konkani words. > > > > Our Konkani of today includes loads of English and Portuguese words but it > > appears that our Goans know very well the correct English spellings but > > definitely fail to spell correctly the Portuguese words. It is perhaps > > natural since they are nowadays more in contact with the English language. > > Hardly anybody speaks Portuguese anymore. > > > > Of course languages develop but in this particular case, I am of the > opinion > > these are > > corruptions of the original words and not new words introduced in Konkani. > > > > It is true that malcorada is commonly known in Goa as "mankurad". > > In the same way, the Afonso or Afonsa mango is sometimes known as "Aphus" > or > > "Hapus" (corruptions of Afonso) and internationally by "Alphonso". "Pairi" > > is also a corruption of Pires mango. > > > > "vistid", "sucegad", "jurament", "sorpatel" or "sarpotel", "vindalo" or > > "vindaloo", etc., are all corruptions of Portuguese words. Or are you > going > > to tell me these are new Konkani words ? > > I don't think so. > > And we could go on and on about the corrupted Portuguese words in our > spoken > > and written Konkani of today. > > > > I say there is lack of detail in the sense that nobody actually cares > about > > looking for the correct spelling or meaning. > > That is why we sometimes read in Goa: "Rua Abade Faria Road" or "Hospicio > > Hospital", etc. > > > > Nobody actually cares anymore if it makes sense or not. > > This is what I mean when I refer to the current lack of detail in Goa. > > > > It is good for a laugh ! Sadly. > > > > Best, > > Paulo. > =-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-W-E-B---S-I-T-E-=-=-= To Subscribe/Unsubscribe from GoaNet | http://www.goacom.com/goanet =================================================================== For (un)subscribing or for help, Contact: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Dont want so many e=mails? Join GoaNet-Digest instead ! =-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-= Help support non-commercial projects in Goa by advertizing!! * * * * Your ad here !!
