Sam,
I do agree with you. Choices are often the best way of tayloring things
to everyone's liking. And WE in general is good in offering choices.
There has been one argument in this thread, that I do want to put in a
thought on. Think it was Aaron, who said that things now are the way
sighted people do things, in that you have to beat your way around
Notepad, before the formatting will get stripped. (Sorry if it was
someone else bringing out that thought.)
OK, in general, I much will prefer to do things the way sighted people
do. It gives us the best possibility in cooperating with sighted friends
and colleagues. Still, if there is a simpler way to do things, or at
least a more effecient way, there might be many good reasons to stick
with such a "specialized" solution. Too often, we have to spend more
time in performing certain activities. For one thing, we cannot just
cast a quick glance on the screen to see certain updates or infos. I
cannot simply swipe the screen, to see what text is imphasized with
bold, underlined or differently colored text. A blind user, will have to
do many extra operations, throughout the day, to maintain a normal
working speed.
In those cases, where the screen reader - or any other software behind
the scene - can help me out in performing any tiny bit of trivial
operation in a more effecient way, this is a great help for me. It would
be for anyone. But specially for me as a blind person, since it will
give me back some of the effectivity I loose in the normal operation of
the computer. As such, simply stating that because sighted people have
to do it a cumbersome way, and blind people should do like them, seems a
bit hasty. The basics in that statement is correct, and I back it. But
it has to be applied with some moderation. Sam, Your query of having a
chance to more easily select text and having it copied non-formatted, I
do back. Not saying anything should be removed, we are just asking for
something to be added, and we do so because it will help in productivity.
Meanwhile, maybe an idea for someone to make up an app. Let the app copy
text to the clipboard, open Notepad, paste it in, Copy it to the
clipboard from the Notepad window, Close Notepad, and tell you job is
done and things are ready for pasting. Smile. At least, then you could
perform it all by a hotkey.
David
On 11/28/2014 1:38 AM, Sam Bushman wrote:
Hi Jim,
I agree with the productive and educational conversation and appreciate that
very much.
We can all learn together and I welcome and this is wonderful.
However, I have seen on these lists often times a tone of unkindness and a
general arguing about things that in my personal views are not helpful or
productive.
When people complain or have a hard time with change it's because they were
depending on something they have lost that they need.
I do realize that some times changes make things better and if we are not
forced to learn new things we can't progress.
It's when jobs depend on things that is when we really need to look hard at how
to help.
Henter Joyce of old was fantastic at that!
Most times when you create an rss feed there is a web site portal that doesn't
give you the ability to strip formatting from text.
Often times people give you lots of different formatted information and WE was
great because whenever I would cut and paste it all would be well.
Now that WE has changed it's like a loss of a feature for me.
I do recognize that it wasn't a promoted feature and that having the ability to
keep the formatting is most helpful in more situations.
I just think the ability to do both is the best of all worlds..
I also think whenever windows has standards ... let's not leave those standards
behind.
Keep in mind it's nice to cut and paste to a word document and strip all
formatting so the text is easier to work with out all the formatting chatter.
Just my thoughts.
Thanks,
Sam
-----Original Message-----
From: Jim Grimsby Jr. [mailto:[email protected]]
Sent: Thursday, November 27, 2014 5:00 PM
To: [email protected]
Cc: [email protected]
Subject: RE: Selecting text
Hi Sam,
Dealing with issues as to why you might need a thing or in some cases finding
out what works best for people is a very useful conversation. You are dealing
with a limited amount of resources thus things need to be allocated a priority.
Also in some cases a user might have never thought to do a thing in a way that
is being described. There for asking why would you want to do that is quite
helpful. Let's take your example of dealing with rss and formatting. I had
never thought of that situation so I learned something new.
Does the program you are working with support the ability to paste text only,
or keep source text? Microsoft word for example, and most word processers do
support this. This question is being asked, because if you can use the
internal utilities of the program you are working with to perform this task
then it doesn't make sense to add this functionality to window-eyes. If that
is the case then the window-eyes team would be better served adding more
important features that allow you to perform tasks that cannot be performed
now, or addressing an actual accessibility issue.
-----Original Message-----
From: Sam Bushman [mailto:[email protected]]
Sent: Wednesday, November 26, 2014 12:31 PM
To: 'Tom Kingston'; 'gw-info'
Subject: RE: Selecting text
Hi tom,
I am ok with the beta not having everything.
I am find with:
Shift-Arrow selection is coming ... just not yesterday.
I am also fine with adding f8 to make it easier to block large amounts of text
... I am also fine with a feature that gets all the formatting. That's
fantastic.
I just think that the ability to deal in WE with text only has value.
So, maybe in a future release that can be an option.
The thing I don't like the most is the debate of who can do what faster, the
you don't need that, the why would you ever want to do that stuff from some
posters gets old.
Thanks for listening.
Sam
-----Original Message-----
From: Tom Kingston [mailto:[email protected]]
Sent: Wednesday, November 26, 2014 1:26 PM
To: gw-info
Subject: Re: Selecting text
As we've tried to say, Shift-Arrow selection is coming ... just not
yesterday.
Tom
On 11/26/2014 3:21 PM, Sam Bushman wrote:
I find it sad that instead of trying to make things work the best we can for
all users, instead of sticking with the windows standards, instead of finding
better ways to do things, instead of building in the best we can to the program
... we are all arguing keystrokes ... telling others you don't need that ...
why the hell do you want to do that ... don't you know how to solve problems
etc ... it's amazing and sad to me.
I can do this faster than you can, my dad is stronger than your da ... it's
frickin crazy!
Sam
-----Original Message-----
From: Tom Kingston [mailto:[email protected]]
Sent: Wednesday, November 26, 2014 1:17 PM
To: gw-info
Subject: Re: Selecting text
Aaron. You forgot to assign a hot key to Notepad and shave a few more
seconds off your time. And I thought you were a power user. :)
Tom
On 11/26/2014 3:12 PM, Aaron Smith wrote:
On my machine, given the time it takes to shut Window-Eyes down, launch NVDA,
refresh the page (since NVDA typically doesn't like being launched on an
existing page), locate the text, select it, copy it, close NVDA, re-launch
Window-Eyes, then find where I wanted to paste it, then paste it, the
difference is at least 30 seconds. Whereas Windows-R, notepad, enter, paste,
control-a, control-x, alt-f4 takes me literally seconds.
But, as I mentioned, if that's drives your success, then all the power in the
world to you.
Thanks,
Aaron
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