I agree with all you say. However is best I am for. Sam
-----Original Message----- From: David [mailto:[email protected]] Sent: Friday, November 28, 2014 1:49 AM To: [email protected]; 'Jim Grimsby Jr.' Cc: [email protected] Subject: Re: Selecting text Sam, I do agree with you. Choices are often the best way of tayloring things to everyone's liking. And WE in general is good in offering choices. There has been one argument in this thread, that I do want to put in a thought on. Think it was Aaron, who said that things now are the way sighted people do things, in that you have to beat your way around Notepad, before the formatting will get stripped. (Sorry if it was someone else bringing out that thought.) OK, in general, I much will prefer to do things the way sighted people do. It gives us the best possibility in cooperating with sighted friends and colleagues. Still, if there is a simpler way to do things, or at least a more effecient way, there might be many good reasons to stick with such a "specialized" solution. Too often, we have to spend more time in performing certain activities. For one thing, we cannot just cast a quick glance on the screen to see certain updates or infos. I cannot simply swipe the screen, to see what text is imphasized with bold, underlined or differently colored text. A blind user, will have to do many extra operations, throughout the day, to maintain a normal working speed. In those cases, where the screen reader - or any other software behind the scene - can help me out in performing any tiny bit of trivial operation in a more effecient way, this is a great help for me. It would be for anyone. But specially for me as a blind person, since it will give me back some of the effectivity I loose in the normal operation of the computer. As such, simply stating that because sighted people have to do it a cumbersome way, and blind people should do like them, seems a bit hasty. The basics in that statement is correct, and I back it. But it has to be applied with some moderation. Sam, Your query of having a chance to more easily select text and having it copied non-formatted, I do back. Not saying anything should be removed, we are just asking for something to be added, and we do so because it will help in productivity. Meanwhile, maybe an idea for someone to make up an app. Let the app copy text to the clipboard, open Notepad, paste it in, Copy it to the clipboard from the Notepad window, Close Notepad, and tell you job is done and things are ready for pasting. Smile. At least, then you could perform it all by a hotkey. David On 11/28/2014 1:38 AM, Sam Bushman wrote: > Hi Jim, > > I agree with the productive and educational conversation and appreciate that > very much. > We can all learn together and I welcome and this is wonderful. > However, I have seen on these lists often times a tone of unkindness and a > general arguing about things that in my personal views are not helpful or > productive. > When people complain or have a hard time with change it's because they were > depending on something they have lost that they need. > I do realize that some times changes make things better and if we are not > forced to learn new things we can't progress. > It's when jobs depend on things that is when we really need to look hard at > how to help. > Henter Joyce of old was fantastic at that! > Most times when you create an rss feed there is a web site portal that > doesn't give you the ability to strip formatting from text. > Often times people give you lots of different formatted information and WE > was great because whenever I would cut and paste it all would be well. > Now that WE has changed it's like a loss of a feature for me. > I do recognize that it wasn't a promoted feature and that having the ability > to keep the formatting is most helpful in more situations. > I just think the ability to do both is the best of all worlds.. > I also think whenever windows has standards ... let's not leave those > standards behind. > Keep in mind it's nice to cut and paste to a word document and strip all > formatting so the text is easier to work with out all the formatting chatter. > > Just my thoughts. > > Thanks, > Sam > > > -----Original Message----- > From: Jim Grimsby Jr. [mailto:[email protected]] > Sent: Thursday, November 27, 2014 5:00 PM > To: [email protected] > Cc: [email protected] > Subject: RE: Selecting text > > Hi Sam, > Dealing with issues as to why you might need a thing or in some cases finding > out what works best for people is a very useful conversation. You are > dealing with a limited amount of resources thus things need to be allocated a > priority. Also in some cases a user might have never thought to do a thing > in a way that is being described. There for asking why would you want to do > that is quite helpful. Let's take your example of dealing with rss and > formatting. I had never thought of that situation so I learned something new. > > Does the program you are working with support the ability to paste text only, > or keep source text? Microsoft word for example, and most word processers do > support this. This question is being asked, because if you can use the > internal utilities of the program you are working with to perform this task > then it doesn't make sense to add this functionality to window-eyes. If that > is the case then the window-eyes team would be better served adding more > important features that allow you to perform tasks that cannot be performed > now, or addressing an actual accessibility issue. > > > -----Original Message----- > From: Sam Bushman [mailto:[email protected]] > Sent: Wednesday, November 26, 2014 12:31 PM > To: 'Tom Kingston'; 'gw-info' > Subject: RE: Selecting text > > Hi tom, > > I am ok with the beta not having everything. > I am find with: > > Shift-Arrow selection is coming ... just not yesterday. > > I am also fine with adding f8 to make it easier to block large amounts of > text ... I am also fine with a feature that gets all the formatting. That's > fantastic. > I just think that the ability to deal in WE with text only has value. > So, maybe in a future release that can be an option. > > The thing I don't like the most is the debate of who can do what faster, the > you don't need that, the why would you ever want to do that stuff from some > posters gets old. > > Thanks for listening. > Sam > > > > -----Original Message----- > From: Tom Kingston [mailto:[email protected]] > Sent: Wednesday, November 26, 2014 1:26 PM > To: gw-info > Subject: Re: Selecting text > > As we've tried to say, Shift-Arrow selection is coming ... just not > yesterday. > > Tom > > > On 11/26/2014 3:21 PM, Sam Bushman wrote: >> I find it sad that instead of trying to make things work the best we can for >> all users, instead of sticking with the windows standards, instead of >> finding better ways to do things, instead of building in the best we can to >> the program ... we are all arguing keystrokes ... telling others you don't >> need that ... why the hell do you want to do that ... don't you know how to >> solve problems etc ... it's amazing and sad to me. >> I can do this faster than you can, my dad is stronger than your da .... it's >> frickin crazy! >> Sam >> >> >> -----Original Message----- >> From: Tom Kingston [mailto:[email protected]] >> Sent: Wednesday, November 26, 2014 1:17 PM >> To: gw-info >> Subject: Re: Selecting text >> >> Aaron. You forgot to assign a hot key to Notepad and shave a few more >> seconds off your time. And I thought you were a power user. :) >> >> Tom >> >> >> On 11/26/2014 3:12 PM, Aaron Smith wrote: >>> On my machine, given the time it takes to shut Window-Eyes down, launch >>> NVDA, refresh the page (since NVDA typically doesn't like being launched on >>> an existing page), locate the text, select it, copy it, close NVDA, >>> re-launch Window-Eyes, then find where I wanted to paste it, then paste it, >>> the difference is at least 30 seconds. Whereas Windows-R, notepad, enter, >>> paste, control-a, control-x, alt-f4 takes me literally seconds. >>> >>> But, as I mentioned, if that's drives your success, then all the power in >>> the world to you. >>> >>> Thanks, >>> >>> Aaron >>> >> If you reply to this message it will be delivered to the original sender >> only. If your reply would benefit others on the list and your message is >> related to GW Micro, then please consider sending your message to >> [email protected] so the entire list will receive it. >> >> GW-Info messages are archived at http://www.gwmicro.com/gwinfo. You can >> manage your list subscription at http://www.gwmicro.com/listserv. >> >> > If you reply to this message it will be delivered to the original sender > only. If your reply would benefit others on the list and your message is > related to GW Micro, then please consider sending your message to > [email protected] so the entire list will receive it. > > GW-Info messages are archived at http://www.gwmicro.com/gwinfo. You can > manage your list subscription at http://www.gwmicro.com/listserv. > If you reply to this message it will be delivered to the original sender > only. If your reply would benefit others on the list and your message is > related to GW Micro, then please consider sending your message to > [email protected] so the entire list will receive it. > > GW-Info messages are archived at http://www.gwmicro.com/gwinfo. You can > manage your list subscription at http://www.gwmicro.com/listserv. > > If you reply to this message it will be delivered to the original sender > only. If your reply would benefit others on the list and your message is > related to GW Micro, then please consider sending your message to > [email protected] so the entire list will receive it. > > GW-Info messages are archived at http://www.gwmicro.com/gwinfo. You can > manage your list subscription at http://www.gwmicro.com/listserv. > > > If you reply to this message it will be delivered to the original sender only. If your reply would benefit others on the list and your message is related to GW Micro, then please consider sending your message to [email protected] so the entire list will receive it. GW-Info messages are archived at http://www.gwmicro.com/gwinfo. You can manage your list subscription at http://www.gwmicro.com/listserv.
