On Dec 21, 2010, at 10:04 AM, Abigail wrote:
On Tue, Dec 21, 2010 at 09:40:08AM -0800, Joshua Juran wrote:
On Dec 21, 2010, at 8:18 AM, H.Merijn Brand wrote:
If I have to use the mouse, let it be as simple as
possible: a big ball for movements, three buttons - for which the
middle should paste and do nothing else
I couldn't think of a better way to make X11 hostile to new users.
"Let's see... left click? Works as expected... right click? Okay, a
menu pops up. I wonder what middle click does... AAAAAAGH! What
the
hell just happened?"
Dumping arbitrary text into a window (which might be a shell) doesn't
exactly encourage users to explore the interface. I guess they're
supposed to read the manual instead.
It's one thing for an experienced user to enable this behavior on his
own system, but innocent people shouldn't be exposed to this.
If there's one thing I'm missing after switching to a MacBook, it's
the
copy-and-paste functionality that doesn't require a combination of
keys
with a mouse or trackpad.
So, you'd be satisfied with copy-and-paste that relied solely on the
keyboard?
Really, select with mouse, cmd-C, click where to paste, cmd-V?
When Apple introduced extended keyboards, F1-F4 were labeled Undo/Cut/
Copy/Paste. Some applications supported them. Eventually Apple
removed the labels, and more importantly, the space between function
key groups and below the row, so it actually became faster to use the
Command-key combos since I didn't have to visually check which keys I
was touching. I still use them on larger keyboards with proper key
spacing.
Also, why are you selecting with the mouse? I understand that Mac
editors have generally been weak in this respect, but I'd expect any
decent Unix editor to allow easy selection from the keyboard. I
implemented an incremental search quasimode (inspired by Jef Raskin's
LEAP function from The Humane Interface) to make this easier in my own
software.
That's
vastly inferiour to select with mouse, middle click where to paste
(the
latter may also be shift-insert).
You're missing the fact that merely selecting text doesn't clobber the
clipboard, and accidentally pasting the wrong thing to the wrong place
is much less likely.
And there's no shift-insert on a MacBook.
I have no sympathy on that note, unless you're left-handed. If you're
using a mouse in the right hand and a full keyboard, Command-V from
the left hand is easier than Shift-Insert from either hand.
I do not care if someone considers a middle click to be "hostile to
new
users". Catering for new users isn't the end-all be-all of design. If
Jef Raskin advocates preventing the overwrite of a selection except by
the Delete key and disabling auto-key until the same key is struck
three times in a row. Meeting these unawares would be surprising, but
*harmless*. Whereas middle-button paste is capable of serious
damage. I'm not suggesting catering to new users or dumbing things
down. I'm calling for guard rails on the catwalks.
your users are most of their time using your application/os/whatever
"new
users", you're doing it wrong - it means they stop using your product
shortly after becoming experienced.
Or they stop using it before they become experienced and switch to Macs.
I've used X for over 20 years, far longer than the time I was an X-
newbie.
I love my middle click.
I've used Mac OS for over 20 years. I like Copy and Paste being
commands, not mouse gestures, but it's far from ideal. If I want it
to work the way I like I have to implement it myself.
Josh
