You want to discuss something? Take it to SPUF. -James
On Fri, Apr 25, 2014 at 4:46 PM, Robert Paulson <thepauls...@gmail.com>wrote: > I don't see how there could be a better place to discuss this. This > quickplay problem affects srcds servers and this is a mailing list for > servers that is visited by the people responsible for this change. > > If Valve does not realize this is a problem, that is even more of a reason > to keep talking about it. > > I don't think Valve doesn't care, they just don't know it is a problem. > Otherwise they wouldn't have wasted their time making quickpick. > > They need to realize it is causing a net loss of players and quickplay > options and quickpick didn't solve the issue. > > > On Fri, Apr 25, 2014 at 4:33 PM, James Haikin <jfrra...@gmail.com> wrote: > >> I'm just sick of people bitching about something that Valve has shown no >> indication of changing, in a place where it's rather patently inappropriate >> for the discussion to be taking place. >> >> -James >> >> >> On Fri, Apr 25, 2014 at 4:31 PM, Robert Paulson <thepauls...@gmail.com>wrote: >> >>> "Empirical" evidence was already offered which you thought were "my" >>> players, as if I had tens of thousands of players. Those numbers are pulled >>> straight from Steam. >>> >>> What's the point of trolling this discussion? Don't you have anything >>> better to do? >>> >>> >>> On Fri, Apr 25, 2014 at 4:14 PM, James Haikin <jfrra...@gmail.com>wrote: >>> >>>> Why hello there, anecdotal evidence. If you could go ahead and get us >>>> an actual cross-section of the playerbase, that'd be greeeeeat. >>>> >>>> -James >>>> >>>> >>>> On Fri, Apr 25, 2014 at 4:10 PM, Robert Paulson >>>> <thepauls...@gmail.com>wrote: >>>> >>>>> It might not cause more players to magically appear, but more of them >>>>> will end up in better servers than the official ones. Community servers >>>>> offer additional value that keep people playing TF2 longer. >>>>> >>>>> I know quite a few people who have stopped playing after their >>>>> favorite server emptied out because of this change. They would rather not >>>>> play TF2 than play on an official server which are laggy and full of >>>>> hackers and griefers. >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> On Fri, Apr 25, 2014 at 3:58 PM, Alexander Z <spacebur...@gmail.com>wrote: >>>>> >>>>>> Fixing quickplay, however you want to see it "fixed", won't cause >>>>>> more players to magically appear. >>>>>> TF2 is running on borrowed time, and the playerbase will only be >>>>>> getting smaller with time. >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> On 25 April 2014 23:42, Robert Paulson <thepauls...@gmail.com> wrote: >>>>>> >>>>>>> Those aren't "my" player counts, those are the global player counts. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> On Fri, Apr 25, 2014 at 2:32 PM, James Haikin <jfrra...@gmail.com>wrote: >>>>>>> >>>>>>>> Hint: they DGAF about your player count. >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> -James >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> On Fri, Apr 25, 2014 at 2:30 PM, Robert Paulson < >>>>>>>> thepauls...@gmail.com> wrote: >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> When will Valve realize was a bad decision? Player counts haven't >>>>>>>>> been this low since last year, and there is no new FPS game. >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> For those people claiming player counts get lower until summer >>>>>>>>> vacation, they didn't drop as much as last year. >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> After the change, the weekly high dropped by 5000. Compare to last >>>>>>>>> year in the same time frame there is barely a 1000 player difference. >>>>>>>>> How >>>>>>>>> much more obvious does it need to get? >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> 2014 >>>>>>>>> http://i.imgur.com/xoUEHbr.png >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> 2013 >>>>>>>>> http://i.imgur.com/Rp9y2kD.png >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> data from steamcharts.com >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> On Mon, Mar 24, 2014 at 9:18 PM, E. Olsen <ceo.eol...@gmail.com>wrote: >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> I think the issue here, is...there really is no longer any reason >>>>>>>>>> for valve servers to be the "default" servers once a player has 8-12 >>>>>>>>>> hours >>>>>>>>>> in the game. >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> The minority of players who only want those random pub games on >>>>>>>>>> valve servers now have that option - but the players who stick >>>>>>>>>> around in >>>>>>>>>> the long-term will be the ones that find a "home" server/group of >>>>>>>>>> servers, >>>>>>>>>> not those looking for the "x-box live" experience of random games >>>>>>>>>> with >>>>>>>>>> random people every time. Honestly, if the TF2 team could see the >>>>>>>>>> chaos and >>>>>>>>>> lack of teamwork that valve servers actually seem to encourage, I >>>>>>>>>> think >>>>>>>>>> they would take a step back and realize that it really doesn't do >>>>>>>>>> the game >>>>>>>>>> any justice. There is a reason some of the newer players have taken >>>>>>>>>> to >>>>>>>>>> calling community servers "pubstomp" servers - it's because community >>>>>>>>>> servers are where they fist come up against actual, cohesive >>>>>>>>>> teamwork - and >>>>>>>>>> they're used to a bunch of random players just doing they're own >>>>>>>>>> thing. >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> Frankly - I firmly believe the long-term health of the game rests >>>>>>>>>> with community servers who provide diversity, supervision (to get >>>>>>>>>> rid of >>>>>>>>>> the plethora of hackers/griefers, etc.), and a much better experience >>>>>>>>>> overall (not to mention higher skill levels). >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> In short - I agree with Mr. Paulson - give the new players a a >>>>>>>>>> few hours of "mandatory" play on valve's servers to get their feet >>>>>>>>>> wet in >>>>>>>>>> the game, and then open quickplay up to "all servers" by default and >>>>>>>>>> allow >>>>>>>>>> them to see all the diversity that's out there. You've given the >>>>>>>>>> players >>>>>>>>>> the "option" of going back to "valve-only" if they should want it, >>>>>>>>>> now lets >>>>>>>>>> rollback the "mass punishment" (that was really killing a mosquito >>>>>>>>>> with a >>>>>>>>>> sledgehammer), and give the server operators a fair shake again. >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> On Mon, Mar 24, 2014 at 11:14 PM, Chris Oryschak < >>>>>>>>>> ch...@oryschak.com> wrote: >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> It would be really nice to get some input on this from Valve. >>>>>>>>>>> Since the change every day gets worse and worse for player >>>>>>>>>>> activity on my >>>>>>>>>>> servers thanks to the QP changes and lack of new players having the >>>>>>>>>>> ability >>>>>>>>>>> to find my servers. >>>>>>>>>>> You can view the beautiful downward trend caused by these >>>>>>>>>>> changes: >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> http://i.imgur.com/uvlq056.png >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> If anyone else is running the Player Analytics plugin just edit >>>>>>>>>>> "data/sessions.php" and change "30 DAY" to "90 DAY". >>>>>>>>>>> I'd love to see the same trends from other communities to help >>>>>>>>>>> reinforce this bad change for all server ops. >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> On Mon, Mar 24, 2014 at 9:09 PM, Robert Paulson < >>>>>>>>>>> thepauls...@gmail.com> wrote: >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>> As I said before, the problem is not that the official servers >>>>>>>>>>>> only option exists, the problem is that it is on by default. >>>>>>>>>>>> People too >>>>>>>>>>>> lazy to use the browser are too lazy to use options. >>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>> Again I would like to suggest automatically un-checking the >>>>>>>>>>>> official servers only after 4-5 hours of play. Anything that >>>>>>>>>>>> requires >>>>>>>>>>>> manual intervention will not solve the problem. >>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>> For anyone arguing community servers are inferior again, I >>>>>>>>>>>> refer you to this post. >>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>> https://www.mail-archive.com/hlds_linux@list.valvesoftware.com/msg74795.html >>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>> On Mon, Mar 24, 2014 at 5:03 PM, 1nsane <1nsane...@gmail.com>wrote: >>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> What about something similar like before where valve servers >>>>>>>>>>>>> had an advantage over community servers with new players being >>>>>>>>>>>>> sent to them >>>>>>>>>>>>> (due to the valve server score boost)? >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> Except this time just make it so all new players get sent to >>>>>>>>>>>>> valve servers by default. And then after a certain amount of >>>>>>>>>>>>> hours played >>>>>>>>>>>>> it either defaults to all servers or pops up a message asking if >>>>>>>>>>>>> community >>>>>>>>>>>>> servers should be included and explaining a little bit about the >>>>>>>>>>>>> other >>>>>>>>>>>>> quickplay options and how to access them. >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> I talked to plenty of players who weren't aware that quickplay >>>>>>>>>>>>> search can be customized or that you need to click on the gear >>>>>>>>>>>>> icon to >>>>>>>>>>>>> bring up advanced search options. There's plenty of people who >>>>>>>>>>>>> hate crits >>>>>>>>>>>>> or default respawn times and yet they're not even aware of this >>>>>>>>>>>>> functionality being part of quickplay. Or perhaps that's on >>>>>>>>>>>>> purpose and >>>>>>>>>>>>> maybe that's the reason why the icon is so tiny... >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> On Thu, Mar 20, 2014 at 7:31 PM, Jason Tango < >>>>>>>>>>>>> jtrun...@outlook.com> wrote: >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>> As we approach the 2-month mark since Valve's servers were >>>>>>>>>>>>>> made the "default" servers for all quickplay players, can the >>>>>>>>>>>>>> TF2 team give >>>>>>>>>>>>>> us a time frame when they will return the system to a "level >>>>>>>>>>>>>> playing field" >>>>>>>>>>>>>> for all servers? >>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>> As it stands, the players who want to avoid all community >>>>>>>>>>>>>> servers now have the ability to do so simply by clicking the >>>>>>>>>>>>>> "Official >>>>>>>>>>>>>> Server Only" button, so is it really necessary to keep driving >>>>>>>>>>>>>> nearly all >>>>>>>>>>>>>> quickplay traffic away from community servers? >>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>> In fact, a better question would probably be - is it in TF2's >>>>>>>>>>>>>> best (long-term) interest to do so? Helping players find a >>>>>>>>>>>>>> "home" server >>>>>>>>>>>>>> where they become a "regular" creates long-term players, and >>>>>>>>>>>>>> since so much >>>>>>>>>>>>>> emphasis (in the design of the UI) has been placed on guiding >>>>>>>>>>>>>> players to >>>>>>>>>>>>>> use quickplay, the longer that community servers are effectively >>>>>>>>>>>>>> excluded >>>>>>>>>>>>>> from that traffic, the more long-term players the game will >>>>>>>>>>>>>> likely lose. >>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>> The players that only want random games with random people on >>>>>>>>>>>>>> Valve servers now have the option to make sure that's all they >>>>>>>>>>>>>> get, but >>>>>>>>>>>>>> preventing the rest of the player base from experiencing all the >>>>>>>>>>>>>> diversity >>>>>>>>>>>>>> that the TF2 community can provide is both unnecessary and >>>>>>>>>>>>>> unfair to those >>>>>>>>>>>>>> of us who have never broken any rules, or violated any policies. >>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>> With that in mind, please consider leveling the playing field >>>>>>>>>>>>>> again asap by including all community servers by default, and >>>>>>>>>>>>>> let the >>>>>>>>>>>>>> players decide for themselves if they don't want to be a part of >>>>>>>>>>>>>> that >>>>>>>>>>>>>> community. >>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>> Thanks, guys. >>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>>>>>>>>> To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list >>>>>>>>>>>>>> archives, please visit: >>>>>>>>>>>>>> https://list.valvesoftware.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/hlds >>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>>>>>>>> To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list >>>>>>>>>>>>> archives, please visit: >>>>>>>>>>>>> https://list.valvesoftware.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/hlds >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>>>>>>> To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list >>>>>>>>>>>> archives, please visit: >>>>>>>>>>>> https://list.valvesoftware.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/hlds >>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>>>>>> To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list >>>>>>>>>>> archives, please visit: >>>>>>>>>>> https://list.valvesoftware.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/hlds >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>>>>> To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list >>>>>>>>>> archives, please visit: >>>>>>>>>> https://list.valvesoftware.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/hlds >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>>>> To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list >>>>>>>>> archives, please visit: >>>>>>>>> https://list.valvesoftware.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/hlds >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>>> To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list >>>>>>>> archives, please visit: >>>>>>>> https://list.valvesoftware.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/hlds >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>> To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list >>>>>>> archives, please visit: >>>>>>> https://list.valvesoftware.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/hlds >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>> To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list >>>>>> archives, please visit: >>>>>> https://list.valvesoftware.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/hlds >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>> >>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>> To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives, >>>>> please visit: >>>>> https://list.valvesoftware.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/hlds >>>>> >>>>> >>>> >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives, >>>> please visit: >>>> https://list.valvesoftware.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/hlds >>>> >>>> >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives, >>> please visit: >>> https://list.valvesoftware.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/hlds >>> >>> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives, >> please visit: >> https://list.valvesoftware.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/hlds >> >> > > _______________________________________________ > To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives, > please visit: > https://list.valvesoftware.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/hlds > >
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