First of all let me apologize because my reply appeared to be solely on the basis of your statements - which was not my intention. I was not only replying to your mail but also earlier replies in the thread that you in turn had replied to.
Note: After I read the rest of your mail properly I realized that you are quite mistaken about what has actually happened - please do read up the relevant stories before jumping in.
Varun Varma wrote:
Sigh...I would venture to guess this is what AMS had in mind while requesting [actually, demanding] that this thread be discontinued. The debate has already ventured into the territory of loud and fanatic shouting based on assumptions that-you-know-better-than-I-what society-needs and what-is-the-philosophical-reasoning-behind-Linux.
Your generalization of the positions of people with differing views is indeed heartening, and sends really positive signals about your attitude towards others in the thread.
If anyone feels strongly about changing copyright and/or IP laws, please file PILs or petitions to your local political representatives or relevant judicial review panels.
What is going on here is just the first step of such a thing. You cant just go ahead and file a petition without having a public debate over it.
By deleting what followed below, you have taken the above quote out of context. I am not suggesting that a public debate should not happen - in fact I am contributing to one.
I must apologize then. Your statement above did imply that concerned persons should stop talking here and go somewhere else following "well-established" methods like PILs for changing laws.
BTW, there was not too much to delete below, and I aplogize if you found it relevant - I sure didnt.
What you have just said above, and in the next 3 paragraphs would have been better suited as a reply to AMS's mail and I am going to refrain
You are right. They were. And I apologize if you took them personally like the rest.
Laws are not written in stone - they change over time.
Yes they do. But how? The point I am trying to make again and again is that there is a well established system for changing laws, and I am suggesting that be followed.
And pray what system is that? Are you aware of the differences between formal and informal public debate that generally precedes such formal "well-established" systems of changing laws?
For too long have Indian commercial laws like copyright laws not been subject to public scrutiny. Copyright laws the world over is going through a spate of public debates - they are being rewritten and re-interpreted. It is time that Indian laws reflect this world trend.
[Ignoratio Elenti]
[snipping mindless latin chatter]
The above statement has no bearing on the point at hand - a law has been broken, and that should not be supported.
There in lies your problem - you simply are not in a mood to listen or read to what others are even talking about in this thread. Which law has been broken? The controversy is about a commercial entity asking that a website be taken down because there is a *possibility* that the work on display there can be used for copyright infringement?
There is a difference between DMCA based allegations and actual copyright violations. DMCA based allegations are made against people developing and disseminating tools that can potentially be used to break security systems protecting copyrighted material. In US, DMCA cases had been filed against skylarov, 2600, and a few others.
These laws are not valid in India. Therefore instead Apple and its lawyers are citing possible Indian Copyright Law infringements in Indian that *may* happen if people use this software. They have no actual infringement cases to cite.
Do you understand the significance now? This is a legal threat that can very well be fought in court(and in US these cases have even been won by the defendent)
[Note to the technically sensitive reader: Yes, I know this is not a law - for that I really should be quoting from the Indian Penal Code where this Article of the constitution get's mapped to a law. You really think I am going to spend that much time on research?]
:) Thanks for sparing us from all that in this grand act of condescention.
Please understand that India, like any other democracy in the world is a republic. That means that the voice of majority is only heard till the selection of representatives, in whom you vest your power to take decisions on your behalf. Even if the decision is not what you like.
And there are remedies to correct such decisions, which include:
-> Changing representation -> Judicial procedure
And if all else fails,
-> Revolt/Revolution
The problem is that people straightaway jump to the third, without trying out the first two.
I agree. But you are missing out an important step before the first two - public dissemination of the facts involved and public debates. I am stressing this on and on.
Who tells the representatives about specialized needs of the society? Do you think that the various representatives can take individual initiatives about every changes required in the law?
Let me add some steps before what you suggested:
1. A person or a group of person becomes aware of an issue.
2. The fact is shared among the community, and pros and cons widely discussed.
3. The representatives are then contacted and apprised of the new needs.
We are into steps 1 and 2. This is not a revolt etc! It is merely a debate! Stop generalizing debates as that of (sic) "loud and fanatic
shouting based on assumptions ...blah blah". A common man does reserve the right to discuss public issues with *common sense* - not every one can afford a law education. Sometimes being knowledgable about laws of the land is desirable but there is no harm is discussing it on the basis of logic - even if the logic is below your intellectual level of acceptance.
I assume that when asked to elaborate, you would be able to produce an expansion for the term "We"? I also assume that you have consent [prefreably written] from the group that you claim as "We" authorising you to make such claims on their behalf.
I will do that when I contact my "representative", thank you.
Or is the "We" simply for dramatic effect?
I will let that pass.
Or none of that matters? Because they are all lying, stealing, money hungry bastards and you should be deciding how much money they should make?
A very good point at last! This was the very point that Raj brought up in the last meet.
No. We should not be doing any such thing. We should immediately stop working on Samba (because it infringes on M$'s right to profits), we should stop working on OpenOffice, Abiword etc. because they all infringe on proprietary M$ technologies. And yes, we should stop using DeCSS enabled DVD players on Linux because we would be hurting the Movie industry. We should just pack our bags and go join these companies because they will take us to the land of riches where the endless concentration of money and power in society can run unchecked.
Please, please, please tell me that you realise that is for the law to decide. And for you to appeal to the law if you don't think it is. And for you to lead a change to the law, if the law does not agree.
This is not for you *or* the public to decide. As unpopular as that might sound, that is the way civilized socities work.
I believe all this talk is based on your ignorance on what this thread was originally based upon.
we are still philophically against acts of wilful copyright infringement. But we consider it our right to create Free software which brings us *legitimate* benefits.
[Fallacy of accident]
Legitimate by what standards? Your own? Convinient, isn't that?
Legitimate benefits is what "fair use" arguments are generally based on. Granted that fair use is not a law, but is used as arguments in specific copyright cases.
It seems to me that my email got used as a template to bring out various points, which are in no way connected to the singular point I made in my email. Spefically your mail talks about:
I have answerd all these at the top of my mail.
- Sandip
-- Sandip Bhattacharya sandip (at) puroga.com Puroga Technologies Pvt. Ltd. Work: http://www.puroga.com Home: http://www.sandipb.net
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