> On 6/26/07, Alberto Ruiz <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > > If we are seriously thinking about making solaris more appealing to linux > > (and any) users, we should seriosly rethink the way we name packages. For > > me, any of those package names means absolutely nothing (I know SUNW because > > I like stock market issues, but I think this SUNW thing is also redundant > > and meaningless for most people). > > +1
-1-1-1-1 > On 6/27/07, Alvaro Lopez Ortega <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > wrote: > > It's true that the SUNW isn't really meaningful, and that usually > > package names are quite cryptic. > > > > However, it is very important to remain compatible with all the > > Solaris software out there. And of course, ISVs wouldn't be happy if > > we change all the package names over night. > > > > Besides, with a decent installation utility, you wouldn't even need > > to know the name of the package. It can use the standard names > > internally, but that doesn't mean that you'd have to deal with them. > > I don't think that is much of a solution, and the current packages ARE > one of the things that need to be swept away for Indiana to be > acceptable to Linux users like me - that's a hack and not something > that should be used in a new distribution. > > Seperating package names and package file names is a ghastly solution > to the problem, if I want to manually download a package called > nvidia-drivers, I should be downloading a file called nvidia-drivers.***, not > NVDAgraphics.***. > > I'm getting worried as I was hoping that from the first posts on this > list that Indiana could take advantage of the mistakes and lessons > learnt from Linux in the past 10 years, but it looks like it is going > to be seriously hamstrung by compatibility to Solaris. Linux and the GNU/Linux distros have their "culture", meaning their way of doing and developing things. Solaris and therefore OpenSolaris has its own "culture", and this culture is way more older than the Linux "culture". It would be "destroying" OpenSolaris if all the things in it, the way the packages are named, the way the filesystems are used, the way services/daemons are managed and so on, are "translated" to the way of Linux. I am very afraid that Indiana is in the end going this way and translating the things in (Open)Solaris to Linux. For a Linux user it should be not a problem to look the things up in tha man pages as man pages in the "real Unix" world are something similar to the info pages in the GNU/Linux world. I see a big change in the Linux world as more and more users want that Linux distros just present them the fact so that they don't have to think about and tinker with and can just use. This will in the end with full consequent lead to something like Windows. As I said many times: Indiana should go the way of "teaching" and with this way even bringing Linux users to the traditional way of "learning with man pages, tinkering and hacking with the system and mastering the system(as far as possible)" which was always the real reason why the systems of Linux uses were consistent, stable and secure. When people who say they are Linux users and therefore "technically experienced" cannot even look up and learn the (old) ways of Solaris then I really, really have very limited hope of the future. > What I'd love is GNU userland on the Solaris kernel, though I can > understand why that is a pointless exercise for Sun as there would be > few reasons to "upgrade" from that to Solaris:) But it looks at the > moment that OpenSolaris is simply going to be a repackaging of Solaris > Express with a new package manager - does anyone seriously believe > that's what the world wants? Yeah it will make a bunch of existing > Solaris Admins happy, they will have the OS they already use with an > update mechanism that isn't gimped unless you pay for a contract, but > how many new people is it going to attract? As OpenSolaris is just and only the "kernel" (I know that the ON consol. is more than the kernel) of Solaris and SXCE is only a "packaged up" OpenSolaris in the halls of SUN, yes, Indiana is going to be just Solaris with a new package manager. Solaris had always the GNU userland as add-on. This was never a problem, this is today not a problem. OpenSolaris or Indiana in this case should not become just GNU/Solaris. Indiana should transport the "culture" of Solaris to new users (or to old users who can "profit" of the new packaging and managing the system). If the leaders of Indiana can explain to the users out there that they will get with Indiana a old, trusted, secure and stable real Unix (even if the Unix trademark is not going to be stamped on OpenSolaris) and not just a hobbyist Unix-like system which only got more stable over the years because of thousands of hackers then the users will come. (Please, you should read the above with the knowledge that i am a linux user - just typing this on a Slackware system) > I've just spent 3 weeks using Solaris Express for the first time (and > hated every minute of it) and if opensolaris is just that with a > package manager and ZFS boot I really doubt I'll be using it (it would > be easier to use ZFS with FreeBSD) - some effort needs to go into > looking into _why_ using Solaris is such a turn off to people used to > modern Linux distributions rather than arguing about what WM should be > bundled or what the distribution should be called... You ,Sir, just wanted a new Linux system and you didn't want to introduce yourself into this real Unix operating system. So, you failed. It is something like a Java developer tries Common Lisp and bitches about CLOS (the object system of Common Lisp) because he doesn't understand it and don't want to understand. -- This message posted from opensolaris.org _______________________________________________ indiana-discuss mailing list [email protected] http://opensolaris.org/mailman/listinfo/indiana-discuss
