On Mon, 2006-07-10 at 17:04 -0700, Peter Sherbin wrote: > Pars, > > Why would you need IETF to tell you which human name format to use. > Technically any > and all bits to the right of the network boundary are yours and you can do > with them > whatever you want.
Hi, That's right, we can do whatever we want. However: If my host configures an interface ID from 64bithash(pars mutaf), but someone tries to reach me at 64bithash(parsmutaf), this won't work.. A standard human name format is needed. (is this off-topic?) pars > > Thanks, > > Peter > > --- Pars MUTAF <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > > > > Hello, > > > > For example, we are in the same campus. The campus is covered > > by a single subnet with several wireless access points. I need > > to call you. But there is a problem and I can't get the IPv6 address > > of your cellular phone (DNS, or MIPv6 home agent failure). > > > > But, I suspect > > that you are probably in the campus (because you work here). > > Since we are in the same campus (and, in this example, in the same > > subnet), we are receiving the same router advertisements. Consequently, > > I know your subnet prefix. I also know your name, then > > I can construct your HUMID (interface ID based on HUMan name). > > It is: 64bithash(Bob Hinden). Then, I can reach you (if you're really > > in the campus). > > > > Now, imagine a different campus. This campus is covered by 5 > > subnets. I work in this > > campus. In the past I visited different > > parts of the campus, and my phone recorded all of the subnet prefixes > > that it received from the routers (in the recent past). My phone > > has now the list of subnets that cover the subnet (more or less). > > > > I suspect that you're currently in the campus. But I am > > not sure which part of it. I know your name. I can construct > > your HUMID. My phone has a list of 5 locations (subnets) where you > > (and your phone) is likely to be found. It sends a packet to the > > IPv6 addresses: > > > > subnet_prefix1 | 64bithash(Bob Hinden) > > subnet_prefix2 | 64bithash(Bob Hinden) > > subnet_prefix3 | 64bithash(Bob Hinden) > > subnet_prefix4 | 64bithash(Bob Hinden) > > subnet_prefix5 | 64bithash(Bob Hinden) > > > > If you are really in the campus, I can reach you > > even if DNS or your MIPv6 home agent is down. > > > > We can replace the word "campus" with building, or village or city if > > we wish. > > > > Now, imagine that we are in Paris. I suspect (or I am sure) that you're > > currently in this city. I may even know in which part of Paris > > you're currently located (this is the case for my friends who live here > > for example). I have to reach you but your MIPv6 home > > agent is unreachable. There are two possibilities: > > First, my phone may have learned the subnet prefixes that cover > > Paris (as I traveled in Paris... more or less). I can send packets to: > > > > subnet_prefix1 | hash(Bob Hinden) > > subnet_prefix2 | hash(Bob Hinden) > > ... > > subnet_prefixn | hash(Bob Hinden) > > > > Secondly, I can ask Google. > > Google has a map of the world, and all information that comes along. > > In the new world of wireless IPv6 internet, Google will probably have > > the map of wireless IPv6 subnet prefixes that covers the world. What is the > > quality of service in that subnet, how much it will cost? etc.. Google > > will tell me. > > > > So since you're unreachable using existing techniques, my phone > > asks me: > > > > Want to search Bob Hinden? (I say yes). > > Enter location: (I say Paris, or choose a more precise location > > in a map on the screen of my phone). > > > > My phone downloads the lists of subnets that cover your location > > from Google and starts searching you. > > > > Searching Bob Hinden. This will take a while... > > > > I take my coffee. 5 minutes later my phone beeps and says: > > > > Located Bob Hinden, calling him.. > > > > I'm happy because, I could reach you although your home agent is > > down (or another problem). > > > > === > > > > The above examples may or may not convince you. But the first one at least > > (with single subnet) is really easy to do. In my personal opinion, the > > others > > are also possible (why not?). > > > > Please recall that all the IETF needs to do is to answer: > > > > John Smith > > johnsmith > > john smith > > etc. > > > > which human name format should be used to construct a HUMID?? > > > > The rest is application layer software work, making the phones > > more intelligent etc.. This is not too difficult. > > > > And, perhaps, your phone will more likely be connecting people ;-) > > > > Thanks! > > > > pars > > > > > > > > > > Selon Bob Hinden <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>: > > > > > Pars, > > > > > > >> Ignoring for now if this is good or bad idea, but you might look at > > > >> > > > >> http://www.ietf.org/internet-drafts/draft-ietf-ipngwg-icmp-name- > > > >> lookups-15.txt > > > > > > > > > > > > It looks like ICMP name lookups can also be used to do the same thing. > > > > However, I couldn't understand why I would use a side protocol > > > > (i.e. an ICMP protocol). > > > > > > > > My proposal uses basic IPv6. BTW, the draft is now available at > > > > the IETF site: > > > > http://www.ietf.org/internet-drafts/draft-mutaf-ipv6humid-00.txt > > > > > > > > > > My suggestion was to look at the mechanisms in this document. It a > > > lot more specific than just saying "hash(John Smith)". > > > > > > >> There is a mechanism there to create multicast addresses based on a > > > >> host name that might be a starting point. > > > >>> > > > >>> I would like to configure an interface ID > > > >>> hash(ParsMutaf| 1) and if it collides > > > >>> hash(ParsMutaf| 2) etc.. > > > >>> > > > >>> You can try reach or locate me > > > >>> by sending a packet to (please do not > > > >>> hesitate): > > > >>> > > > >>> subnetprefix | hash(ParsMutaf| 1) or > > > >>> subnetprefix | hash(ParsMutaf| 2) > > > >> > > > >> The big usage problem here is that without knowing your "subnetprfix" > > > >> it won't be very useful. That leads me to wonder how useful it would > > > >> be to find you. > > > > > > > > If we are in the same subnet (same building, campus, village, city, > > > > etc), we already know the destination's subnet prefix. > > > > > > I don't understand how knowing the building, campus, etc., helps to > > > know the subnet prefix. Please explain. > > > > > > >> Also, see the above referenced ID. It's not too hard to do this on a > > > >> single link, but trying to scale this to the Internet gets very hard > > > >> very fast. > > > > > > > > In fact, it doesn't have to scale to the Internet. We may > > > > know the whereabouts of the destination node. In other words, we may > > > > have a list of subnet prefixes that cover the target zone where > > > > the destination user lives. > > > > (obtained from Google for example, or another service like that). > > > > > > How does google help with this? > > > > > > > If one of the single point of failures (e.g. DNS, or Mobile IPv6 home > > > > agent) is unreachable, I can search the destination node by sending > > > > packets to its HUMID at different subnets where it is likely to be > > > > found. > > > > > > I understand your intent, but for this to be useful, there has to be > > > a way to learn the subnet prefix. For example, you know my name. > > > What is my current subnet prefix (without looking in the email headers)? > > > > > > >> It is probably better for the earthquake scenario you > > > >> describe to do this at a higher level (e.g., have a website called > > > >> "i- > > > >> am-alive.org" and make it easy for people to leave messages and for > > > >> people to search people they are trying to find out about). > > > > > > > > The "i-am-alive.org" approach may suffer from the same problems. > > > > I.e. it may be unreachable. In addition, who will maintain such a > > > > web site... Nobody cares until the disaster actually happens. > > > > > > > In fact, the disaster scenario is not the only motivation IMO. > > > > For example, I want to install an IPv6 testbed with 'n' machines. > > > > I'm not installing DNS and I'm not configuring the /etc/hosts > > > > files (because n times (n-1) entries would be needed). > > > > > > Seems to me if routing and forwarding is working, then DNS is working > > > too. > > > > > > Bob > > > > > > > > > > Using HUMID, I can give IPv6 addresses based > > > > on imaginary human names to the machines (during installation). > > > > Human name is easy to remember. No need to configure stateful > > > > name->address mappings. I can start to ping right away. > > > > > > > === message truncated === > > > __________________________________________________ > Do You Yahoo!? > Tired of spam? Yahoo! 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