njc circumscision another view

[vince]

I have read these debates for years and never weighed in - I find them interesting in that much of the Christian Covenant (New Testament for Christo-centric people) pre Gospel epistles revolve around the debate of circumcision vs non circumcision for non-Jewish people becoming a part of the developing faith community -

and then the Scriptural debate resumes in the contemporary/post Gospel period in which Acts is written which would be probably after the fall of Jerusalem in 70 CE); the debate is covered again and is central to the development of the Church as a separate institution and no longer a movement within Judaism --

and all I speak of here is male circumcision, not female, which I think is brutality to subjugate women, I don't think it is the same for males -

while circumcision is cultural in many parts of the world, with some societies using it as a rite of passage from childhood to manhood (ouch! remember that scene in Roots) and have have cultural roots prior to the Abrahamic covenant, it is understood as cultic in the pre and contemporary Abrahamic period and adopted by Abraham and the family of faith that stems from that covenant as a sign of the covenant between God and humanity.

It is thus a sign of deepest, permanent, commitment between God and God's people, not some cultural vestige but in fact essential to the covenant. At the beginning of life, the sign of the covenant is performed on the body of the male infant which places that child in God's community forever. It is a permanent, irreversible mark - no one can hide from God, or pretend that one is not a child of God for the sign is there, and God's sign of presence is always with the individual (male). It is a bit of a sacrificial sign in that men get squeamish about it but if it were easy, what sort of sign would it be - but yet it is not difficult and leaves no one with any limitations in life - more like a tattoo that is always there and does not hinder performance of pleasure.

And speaking of performance and pleasure - the sign of the covenant being on the penis means that every act of sex (excluding lesbians for this argument, sorry) will involve the presence of the sign of God's covenant with God's people. Consider: the sign of covenant is on the organ of pleasure (and thus why better than a tattoo). When pleasure is felt, when sexual pleasure is enjoyed, God is there, and that tells us that sex is a gift, a joy, a blessing that God gives to us for God is on the male organ of pleasure. Blessed are you O Sovereign of the Universe who did not make us to procreate like asexual flowers or with no emotions like dogs but have given us an organ of pleasure in that we might, ah, enjoy this with extreme pleasure!

And when a sperm is released to meet an egg, the sign of God's covenant of love with God's people enters the woman and the two become one flesh united in the covenant of love and the sperm is sent forth from the tip of the place when the sign of the covenant of love is located -

And it is not all about procreation, a common misconception. Sex in the Scriptures is for pleasure. Consider David. Or not, he was a male slut. Consider the book Song of Songs (aka Song of Solomon) which is as lusty a book there is and it is not about procreation, it is about the pleasures of sexual mating and joy between two lovers. And in the celebration of the joys of the flesh of sexual pleasure, the sign of God's presence and covenant is there saying, this is good.

Remember that in the story of Abraham and Sarah being told of the forthcoming conception and birth of Isaac, with Sarah being well past child bearing years and Abraham being quite old himself, Sarah's response is not, "am I going to get pregnant at my age" but rather: "Will I yet have pleasure again?" Sex is a pleasure, a joyous gift in creation, a blessing that God has given to us for no other living thing gets off on sex as the human creation does - and thus, in those moments of rapture and bliss, the sign of the covenant of God's love and blessings are there.

And that is what makes the act of sexual expression between two people who love each other not an act of nature but a sacramental act which celebrates love, joy, please, and the gift of goodness to us in our lives.


As for the Christian debate: circumcision was and continues to be an act of the covenantal relationship with God. After the events we call the Resurrection, the nascent Christian community saw itself as fully Jewish (naturally, they were all Jews).
But then there were all the people called proselytes - non Jews, Gentiles in Biblical terms, who were attracted to Judaism for its ethics, it monotheism, etc., but had not become members of the Jewish faith community because the males were too chicken shit to whip their cock out and get it cut, no matter how skilled the rabbi was in such things....

suddenly there appeared, perhaps, a way for these proselytes to join the Jewish community not by circumcision but by baptism (a Jewish practice done by the Essenes and John the Baptist and others, a Jewish ritual) and by confession of faith in a Risen Savior and oh by the way not have to get circumcised. Now here is a easy way intro Judaism without getting the mark of the covenant because a new covenant is proclaimed in Jesus and baptism, not circumcision, is entrance into the community.

The early Jewish Christian community was fractured by this debate - should circumcision be required for Gentiles to convert to Christianity (still at this time a sub set of Judaism). The debate was fierce on both sides and the great council of Acts 15 was called and after much debate it was decided: circumcision was not required for a non Jew to become a Christian under the grace the comes in the fulfillment of the Law in Jesus. This was a major decision with significant impact, on the one hand opening the doors to all sorts of Gentile proselytes into the Jewish faith as expressed in Christianity; on the other hand, it didn't exactly thrill the larger Jewish community that had not also become followers of Jesus. This (not the claim of Resurrection) marks the departure of Judaism and Christianity into two separate faiths, always interconnected but not separate, and that fate sealed by the fall of Jerusalem which left most Jewish Christians dead and thus ending their influence on the development of the early Church and leaving alive the Gentile Christians - who of course did not live in Jerusalem and thus were not killed there - as the overwhelming number of survivors of Titus and his armies laying waste to Judah; they lived elsewhere. And that completed the separation of Chirstianity and Judaism - certainly in my opinion to the detriment of Christianity which lost is sense of being the branch grafted on the tree (Paul's language) and resulted in their arrogant belief that they were the tree themselves. And that allowed the development of the greatest hate - fratricide - experienced as anti-Semitism.

I am not sure how it was that circumcision became the standard for most American males in the 20th century, but I for one am glad. Even though the mark of the covenant with God was done by the doctor in a medical procedure rather than by the rabbi in the religious procedure, the mark is still there and I am glad to bear it not as I sign that I am Jewish but as a sign of my solidarity with my sisters and brothers of faith who are Jewish.

After all this religious and historical talk, I will say that I feel it is almost out of place to declare my strong aesthetic preference for the circumcised organ and that if you want a place in my, ah, life, it better be...

I would suggest the movie Europa Europa as the story of one who would hide the sign of the covenant to hide from Holocaust and comes to the realization that the mark of the covenant that he bears not only cannot be hidden but becomes his identity in the face of evil -

and as far making decisions for babies?

That argument sways me little. My parents made decisions when they choose to speak English to me instead of each speaking a different language so that I might grow up multi-lingual; they made decisions when they choose to let me know my extended family at the earliest moment rather than keep me unto themselves and live apart from the wider family - they made decisions as to how to feed me, breast or bottle and whatever impact that has on child development, whether to read to me, whether to comfort me when I cried in my crib or whether to let me cry it out, whether to get my my shots which certainly made me cry in pain! I can remember wailing when I got my smallpox and polio vaccinations) -

they didn't wait to ask me, do you want you body invaded with a needle so you be inoculated from mumps, they just did it in their decision making role, and making the decision to have me circumcised - which I have never thanked them for - is one of those decisions among so many others they made that affected my latter life but that is what parents do. I still have the mark of circumcision. (Glad I have it as explained before, and it also looks better to me, and left me looking like all of the other boys in the school shower, a big, big plus at the time and even now at the gym). I still have the smallpox mark on my arm. They made decisions that caused my small body a moment of pain but they did it out of the role and responsibility to make wise and loving and medical decisions for me.

And I wish my parents would have gotten my ears pieced too; I would have loved to be a baby and child pirate, never would have remembered the pain, and could have avoided the pain I felt as an adult getting them pierced.

And I wish the would have spoken to me in Italian and Polish and German instead of English and let me get a phonograph player of my own sooner and wish they would have quit fighting with me every time I bought a Beatles album thus wasting my money on the worthless junk ya da ya da ya da - somehow being circumcised is the one thing that I have no regrets over in whet decisions they made when I was an infant, just like all those shots and inoculations that I got that hurt me and made me scream and cry.,..

and my sons are circumcised and my grandsons are circumcised and God bless the women who authorize the circumcision of the males of my descent!

Because they bear on their most important body part the mark of the covenant of God, the God loves us, and blesses the use of our bodies in their most physical use to express love, God's reminder that God is with us and saying, sex is good, I have blessed you and I have blessed your loving sexual unions.


Now find holes in my views - no theory is without places of attack - but this is who it is for me and I have not seen this view presented in our annual threads on the subject.

Vince