Vince, I never knew that circumcision was so central to the roots of Chrisianity. Kind of makes sense, though, partriarchy that it is. The problem with quoting scripture is that it is only convincing to those that accept the Bible as absolute truth, which I do not. To me it is a historical hodgepodge of different things that ended up in the same book at a time when literacy was so rare that it was considered magical. So we will never agree there, and I could be wrong. There have been whole books written about the contradictions in the Bible, and it seems that whatever viewpoint a person may have, there is something in there to support (or refute) it. I realize I do not have a millionth of the knowledge of the Bible that you do, Vince. In any case, here is the passage from Genesis 17 that you are referring to
And when Abram was ninety years old and nine, the Lord appeared to Abram, and said unto him, I am the Almighty God; walk in my ways and be blameless. I will establish my covenant between me and you and I will make you exceedingly numerous. And you shall no longer be called Abram, but your name shall be Abraham and I make you the father of a multitude of nations. I will make you exceedingly fertile and make nations of you and kings shall come forth from you. I will maintain my covenant between me and you to be God to you and your offspring to come. I assign the land you sojourn in to you and to your offspring to come, all the land of Canaan, as an everlasting holding; I will be their God. God further said to Abraham: As for you, you and your offspring to come throughout the ages shall keep my covenant. Such shall be the covenant between me and you and your offspring to follow, which you shall keep: Every male among you shall be circumcised. You shall circumcise the flesh of your foreskin and that shall be the sign of the covenant between me and you. And throughout the generations every male among you shall be circumcised at the age of eight days. Thus shall my covenant be marked in your flesh as an everlasting pact. And if any male who is uncircumcised fails to circumcise the flesh of his foreskin, that person shall be cut off from his kin. He has broken my covenant. Vince said: > and as far making decisions for babies? > > That argument sways me little. My parents > - they made decisions as to how to feed me, breast or bottle and > whatever impact that has on child development, whether to read to me, > whether to comfort me when I cried in my crib or whether to let me cry > it out, whether to get my my shots which certainly made me cry in pain! > I can remember wailing when I got my smallpox and polio vaccinations) - Some decisions are made based on medical or logical or practical reasons. Some are based on religious beliefs that the child may or may not retain. I don't see it as the same thing. I don't think rituals or beliefs should be foisted on children. Too much like brainwashing, which I received every Sunday as a child. > and my sons are circumcised and my grandsons are circumcised and God > bless the women who authorize the circumcision of the males of my descent! > > Because they bear on their most important body part the mark of the > covenant of God, the God loves us, makes you wonder how God feels about those unfortunate enough to have been born where circumcision is not done. Are they permanantly screwed? I still have the mark of circumcision. (Glad I have it as > explained before, and it also looks better to me, and left me looking > like all of the other boys in the school shower, a big, big plus at the > time and even now at the gym). This is perhaps the only argument in favor that I have heard that makes some sense. In essence "because everyone else is doing it". A poor reason to do something, although peer pressure and acceptance are important to people, especially the young. RR
