Ray Cromwell wrote:
> > Exactly! There are choices. Examine your options. Don't
> > believe that JSP is the only alternative. The programmers who
> > developed the above tools probably would have used JSP had it
> > suited their task, but it didn't so they wrote their own. Maybe
> > their tool suits your task better than JSP too.
>
> I still don't get it. Any real developer is going to know there are
> options anyway, because they should be following the trade rags,
> the web logs, and the free code sites.
And they'll be reading Servlets.com. :-)
> Template systems are trivial to write and are a weekend project
> for anyone with basic parser experience.
You're saying you could write a tool like WebMacro in a weekend?
There are more smarts in the tool than you realize.
> What I don't get is this need to *push* WebMacro.
This is the first you've heard from me on the issue. I wanted to
relate my experience having used both technologies. Most people,
yourself included, have only used one or the other. Based on emails
sent to my feedback alias, people have been glad for the comparison.
It made people think about the issues if nothing else.
> I don't see the Apache Cocoon people all over these mailing lists
> trying to hype Cocoon.
Well, people have asked me to compare Cocoon with the others. Maybe
that's an upcoming article. :-)
> Also, what I don't see from your side is the recognition
> of the huge value that a standard can bring. No matter how much
> you like WebMacro, or your own custom coded system, it is far more
> valuable to have a workable public standard that most people can be
> familar with.
Actually, I have agreed to that point. It's very valuable. But my
paper didn't say "Everyone stop using JSP". It said, "Here are some
problems with JSP". If people involved with JSP have an open mind
to learn about other technologies, JSP can be improved and the other
technologies can be improved. I'm happy to say Eduardo (JSP spec lead)
has taken this as constructive criticism and has been far less vigorous
in his defense of JSP than some on this list.
> What matters to me is that I can hire people, and depend on us all
> having enough similar experience that we can communicate and act
> cohesively. I do not want to spend extensive amounts of time on
> worker training. I am a poorly funded startup that has very small
> time and money budgets.
OK, you stick with JSP. It makes sense for you. I'm sure you also use
Windows for the same reasons listed above. Nothing wrong with that.
But I'm a Unix geek when I can be, and I'll be a WebMacro geek when I
can be too. Maybe a Cocoon geek soon, who knows? I like trying
alternatives. That's how I got into servlets in '96.
-jh-
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