Linux-Advocacy Digest #993, Volume #25 Thu, 6 Apr 00 22:13:06 EDT
Contents:
Re: benchmark for speed in linux / windows
Re: Linux mail/news application questions (Michael Sims)
Re: Linux mail/news application questions (Michael Sims)
Re: Linux mail/news application questions (Michael Sims)
Re: You anti-Microsoft types just don't get it, do you? (Christopher Browne)
Re: The Failure of Microsoft Propaganda -was- So where are the MS supporters.
(Christopher Browne)
Re: Linux stocks soar in aftermarket trading (josco)
SAS vs MS-SQL Server (Christopher Browne)
Re: You anti-Microsoft types just don't get it, do you? (Terry Porter)
Re: Linux mail/news application questions (Christopher Browne)
Re: Linux vs. Windows Benchmark ([EMAIL PROTECTED])
Programming Languages (Christopher Browne)
Re: A question fo Mark Bilk (way OT) (Tim Kelley)
Re: The Failure of Microsoft Propaganda -was- So where are the MS supporters. (Terry
Porter)
Re: The Failure of Microsoft Propaganda -was- So where are the MS supporters.
(Damien)
----------------------------------------------------------------------------
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] ()
Subject: Re: benchmark for speed in linux / windows
Reply-To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Date: Fri, 07 Apr 2000 00:30:04 GMT
On Thu, 06 Apr 2000 19:37:04 -0400, Gary Hallock <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>
>Oh, give me a break!
>
>Start->Utilities->Find Files
>
>Lots of options using a GUI. It will even search tar files if you want.
s l o w l y
------------------------------
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (Michael Sims)
Crossposted-To: comp.os.linux,comp.os.linux.development.apps
Subject: Re: Linux mail/news application questions
Date: Fri, 07 Apr 2000 00:37:29 GMT
On Thu, 06 Apr 2000 13:26:28 GMT, [EMAIL PROTECTED]
(Christopher Browne) wrote:
>a) Can you configure Agent to simultaneously access news feeds from
>multiple kinds of sources, including:
> - NNTP
Obviously.
> - News Spool
I don't think so. Every news server I've ever accessed has
been NNTP. I've never heard of News Spool. What is it exactly?
> - I *believe* IMAP
If I'm not mistaken, IMAP is an email protocol, which doesn't
really apply in this context.
> - Mail folders, in several formats
You access a news feed from mail folders? I'm not following
you here. Agent does have the ability to create folders and store
messages in them, if that's what you're referring to.
>I think that all in all there are a goodly dozen different ways that
>GNUS can access news. Can Agent match that?
Apparently not. Is there another news protocol besides NNTP
that is in wide use?
>b) Can you configure Agent to have a virtual newsgroup, [Linus
> Torvalds], that consists of all messages authored by a particular
> individual on comp.os.linux.*?
You can set a filter that will automatically download those
messages, but I don't think there is any way to automatically organize
them into a seperate group, at least not in the version I am running
(1.5, they're up to 1.8 now). That is a nice feature, now that you
mention it.
>c) Can you configure Agent so that messages similar to those that you
> read wind up getting higher scores, those similar to those that you
> respond to get *very* high scores, and those that you delete based
> on subject/author info result in the subject/author/thread getting
> deprecated?
As in automatically (i.e. on the fly)? No. You can manually
set filters and give them priorities, but it doesn't automatically
monitor your reading habits. Gnus does this? If so, that is
impressive.
>d) Can you configure Agent to respond under a different persona
> depending on which newsgroup (real or virtual) you are accessing?
No, but I prefer to represent myself honestly when posting, so
this is not a real plus in my opinion.
>e) Does Agent provide support for management of Moderated newsgroups?
Not that I'm aware of.
>f) Does Agent support the NoCeM protocol?
No...just read up a little about this. It seems to be a good
idea in theory, but looks a little shaky in it's execution. I'm all
for the reduction of spam, but I'm not sure I'd like someone else
making the decision of what is or is not spam for me. NoCeM looks a
little not-quite-ready-for-prime-time to me.
>g) Does Agent pass the Good Net-Keeping Seal of Approval tests?
Oh wait! These were all rhetorical questions! <slaps
forehead> Doh! :) I'm a little slow, but I'll eventually catch on...
You made some good points. I'll definitely check out Gnus
when I finally get my Mandrake CD (should be any day now). Thanks for
the input...
=====================================================================
Michael Sims
michaels at akamail dot com
"By eliminating covalence inhibitors, we create triple dense
carbohydrates, and thus the so called 'super doughnut'"
--Homer Simpson after getting a Pentium II cranial implant
=====================================================================
------------------------------
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (Michael Sims)
Crossposted-To: comp.os.linux,comp.os.linux.development.apps
Subject: Re: Linux mail/news application questions
Date: Fri, 07 Apr 2000 00:44:30 GMT
On Thu, 06 Apr 2000 08:44:56 -0700, Larry Blanchard
<[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>I've got it set to show groups at top left and headers at top right -
>about 11 lines of each. That gives me about 30 lines for message on the
>bottom 3/4 of the screen. That seems a good way to do it for me.
>
>Anything else similar? IIRC, I could get close to that with FA, but not
>close enough.
The window layout in Free Agent is totally configurable. To
test, I attempted to create the exact layout you describe and did it
in about a minute. You can size all of the individual windows, and
select exactly which fonts and sizes you want for different elements
(group names, headers, message body, etc.) if you still needed a
little tweaking.
=====================================================================
Michael Sims
michaels at akamail dot com
"By eliminating covalence inhibitors, we create triple dense
carbohydrates, and thus the so called 'super doughnut'"
--Homer Simpson after getting a Pentium II cranial implant
=====================================================================
------------------------------
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (Michael Sims)
Crossposted-To: comp.os.linux,comp.os.linux.development.apps
Subject: Re: Linux mail/news application questions
Date: Fri, 07 Apr 2000 00:47:26 GMT
On Thu, 06 Apr 2000 14:39:12 GMT, [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
>The last straw was when a good portion of my email archive, in
>Outlook .pst format, was corrupted. I had been saving my email since
>1996, and it was sort of like a diary for me.
.pst files are pure evil. The fact that Microsoft had to
create an "Inbox Repair Tool" just shows you how much you should trust
Outlook. Instead of creating a "tool" to fix the damage Outlook does,
why not fix what is causing the damage in the first place? Oh wait,
that makes too much sense...
=====================================================================
Michael Sims
michaels at akamail dot com
"By eliminating covalence inhibitors, we create triple dense
carbohydrates, and thus the so called 'super doughnut'"
--Homer Simpson after getting a Pentium II cranial implant
=====================================================================
------------------------------
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (Christopher Browne)
Crossposted-To: comp.os.ms-windows.nt.advocacy,alt.destroy.microsoft
Subject: Re: You anti-Microsoft types just don't get it, do you?
Reply-To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Date: Fri, 07 Apr 2000 00:57:06 GMT
Centuries ago, Nostradamus foresaw a time when
[EMAIL PROTECTED] would say:
>Linux has progressed quantum leaps no doubt, but to think that it will
>replace Windows on the desktop is idiotic at present.
>>Second rate interface? Which one are you talking about? There are many
>>to choose from, some of which mimick Win9x. If they are *all* bad
>>interfaces, then the ones that are like Win9x are bad as well, and by
>>implication, so is Win9x. In this situation, Linux users would be
>>better off, because at least they have a choice about which interface to
>>use. However, if you agree that not *all* of Linux's interfaces are
>>bad, then you are going back on your original statement. There is no
>>way for you to win *that* argument.
>
>Classic Linvocate "more is better" argument.
>
>You have 25 AMC Pacer's.
>I have 1 1999 Corvette Limited.
>
>Who is in a better situation?
That depends on whether the plan is to drag race, or to get 50 people
from Point A to Point B in "record time."
--
If a cow laughed, would milk come out its nose?
[EMAIL PROTECTED] <http://www.ntlug.org/~cbbrowne/lsf.html>
------------------------------
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (Christopher Browne)
Crossposted-To: comp.os.ms-windows.nt.advocacy,alt.destroy.microsoft
Subject: Re: The Failure of Microsoft Propaganda -was- So where are the MS supporters.
Reply-To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Date: Fri, 07 Apr 2000 00:57:07 GMT
Centuries ago, Nostradamus foresaw a time when
[EMAIL PROTECTED] would say:
>On 4 Apr 2000 23:02:13 GMT, [EMAIL PROTECTED] (Mark S. Bilk) wrote:
>>You're forgetting about the WINE (Win32 emulator) system
>>that runs under Linux. It will run a lot of the non-
>>multimedia Windows software, without needing a copy of
>>Windows. Its development is being supported by Corel.
>>If memory serves, someone posted here months ago that
>>Quicken runs under it.
>>
>>www.winehq.com
>
>So you are going to run those same nasty BSOD producing Windows
>applications under Linux?
>
>Sure makes sense to me :(
Ah, but the question is whether the cause for the BSODs is:
a) The nastiness of the applications ("Often true")
b) The nastiness of the OS underneath ("Also often true")
It is not terribly attractive to run stuff that may just BSOD because
it's flakey; it is, however, possible that apps could run more cleanly
atop WINE than they would atop "real Windows."
I can't speak for Quicken's "level of nastiness;" it is *possible*
(though merely speculative) that Quicken *might* run more reliably
atop WINE than atop "real Win32."
--
"We blew it -- too big, too slow..." - Bill Gates talking about NT, as
noted by Steven McGeady of Intel during a meeting with Gates
[EMAIL PROTECTED] <http://www.ntlug.org/~cbbrowne/lsf.html>
------------------------------
From: josco <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Crossposted-To: comp.os.ms-windows.nt.advocacy,comp.os.os2.advocacy
Subject: Re: Linux stocks soar in aftermarket trading
Date: Thu, 6 Apr 2000 18:01:45 -0700
On Thu, 6 Apr 2000 [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
> On Thu, 6 Apr 2000 17:16:31 -0500, "Chad Myers"
> <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>
> >> I can get Oracle8i or IBM DB2 for LINUX for
> >> less than HALF the cost of W2K.
>
> The dirty little secret of Linux. Sure it's free but you get half the
> performance and half the features.
Windows2000 is pretty feature poor compared to LINUX distributions.
For example OpenLinux comes with IBM's DB/2. How much is MS SQL?
You can always that the thousands of dollars you save with LINUX and buy
a better PC.
> Linux is a joke for anyone other than a political anti Microsoft nut.
Or TVIO, Intel, AOL, Gateway, or IBM who all use LINUX.
You guys are public jokes for all the dumb ass things you'll say.
When do you predict MS will use world record holder Windows2000 for
MS Hotmail? Is it going to be this year or next year or the year after?
Come-on jokester - give me a clue. Yahoo uses FreeBSD. Why can't MS use
NT/W2K?
------------------------------
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (Christopher Browne)
Crossposted-To: comp.os.ms-windows.nt.advocacy,comp.os.os2.advocacy
Subject: SAS vs MS-SQL Server
Reply-To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Date: Fri, 07 Apr 2000 00:57:08 GMT
Centuries ago, Nostradamus foresaw a time when josco would say:
>On 6 Apr 2000, Kim A. Sommer wrote:
>
>> SAS Institute announced last month that it would be porting the SAS system
>> to Linux. And that's not because they are an open source bazaar type free
>> loving community. It's because their customers demanded it. It also
>> leverages smaller shops that couldn't afford the bigger iron and the
>> overhead of the system service contracts. And FYI, SAS is probably the
>> largest *privately* held software company around. THey'd be well within
>> in the S&P500 if they were public.
>
>SAS has also complained publically that MS is adding expensive features
>into MS SQL for W2K. The complaint is that OS profits are financing R&D
>into SQL features. IMHO There are also competitive reasons for SAS to try
>to offer PC users an alternative to Windows.
Um. In the long run, customers will ultimately have to "finance"
MSFT's R&D. And AT&T's R&D. And RHAT's R&D. And LNUX's R&D.
SAS is playing a political game here where what they're *really*
saying is:
"Microsoft is adding expensive features to their Sybase SQL Server
Clone that will take away from what *WE* can charge customers for."
I can certainly agree that:
a) The features may a bad thing for *SAS* and its profitability.
b) MSFT customers will be paying for the features, one way or
another.
I disagree that:
c) SAS's complaint is particularly legitimate. What *else,* other
than MSFT profits, would finance MSFT R&D?
It is controversial that:
d) This is either good or bad for the customers of MSFT and SAS.
- If customers pay less to SAS and more to MSFT, and it nets to $0
change, then the change is irrelevant.
- If there are customers that wind up paying less overall, then the
change is to their "good."
- On the other hand, if the price of SQL Server goes up for *all*
users, those that don't actually benefit from improved functionality
wind up losing.
- On the gripping hand, if this pushes SAS out of the market, and puts
MSFT into Yet Another Monopoly-Like Situation, this is downright
*BAD* for *ALL* customers of MSFT.
There be more questions than answers here, methinks...
--
"No matter how much money you spend, you can't make a racehorse out of
a pig. You can, however, make an awfully fast pig."
-- An old saying about program efficiency
[EMAIL PROTECTED] <http://www.hex.net/~cbbrowne/lsf.html>
------------------------------
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (Terry Porter)
Crossposted-To: comp.os.ms-windows.nt.advocacy,alt.destroy.microsoft
Subject: Re: You anti-Microsoft types just don't get it, do you?
Reply-To: No-Spam
Date: 7 Apr 2000 09:11:08 +0800
On Thu, 06 Apr 2000 12:57:56 GMT,
Leonard F. Agius <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>You a regular laugh a minute. Not.
Hey I'm glad you can laff, Wintrolls get so serious when they're hanging
off the credibility ledge, by their fingernails.
>
>I have a basis to make my statements from, given that I've spent the last
>seventeen years in sales and marketing.
Ahh a marketing/sales droid, well we're not buying any snake oil today thanks.
>
>What's your excuse?
No excuses, needed, or tendered, Leonard.
>
>Terry Porter wrote:
>
>> On Thu, 06 Apr 2000 07:55:19 GMT,
>> Leonard F. Agius <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>>
>> >
>> >And you're typical of the technogeek/computer nerd types that the majority of
>> >people just don't like.
>> Ahh Leonard apart from being a MsWindows visionary, knows the majority
>> of people in the world, personally !
>>
>> I'm impressed.
>>
>> >
>> >--
>> >Fight SPAM!!! Remove the _nospam from the above address to send e-mail.
>> >
>> >The opinions expressed are my own.
>> >
>> >
>>
>> --
>> Kind Regards
>> Terry
>> --
>> **** To reach me, use [EMAIL PROTECTED] ****
>> My Desktop is powered by GNU/Linux, and has been
>> up 4 days 1 hour 38 minutes
>> ** Registration Number: 103931, http://counter.li.org **
>
>--
>Fight SPAM!!! Remove the _nospam from the above address to send e-mail.
>
>The opinions expressed are my own.
>
>
--
Kind Regards
Terry
--
**** To reach me, use [EMAIL PROTECTED] ****
My Desktop is powered by GNU/Linux, and has been
up 4 days 14 hours 38 minutes
** Registration Number: 103931, http://counter.li.org **
------------------------------
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (Christopher Browne)
Crossposted-To: comp.os.linux,comp.os.linux.development.apps
Subject: Re: Linux mail/news application questions
Reply-To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Date: Fri, 07 Apr 2000 01:18:32 GMT
Centuries ago, Nostradamus foresaw a time when Michael Sims would say:
>On Thu, 06 Apr 2000 13:26:28 GMT, [EMAIL PROTECTED]
>(Christopher Browne) wrote:
>
>>a) Can you configure Agent to simultaneously access news feeds from
>>multiple kinds of sources, including:
>> - NNTP
>
> Obviously.
>
>> - News Spool
>
> I don't think so. Every news server I've ever accessed has
>been NNTP. I've never heard of News Spool. What is it exactly?
It's the longstanding traditional way of storing news, since way
back in the days when C-News was new, and people read news using
a program called "readnews."
Also termed as a "directory group."
>> - I *believe* IMAP
>
> If I'm not mistaken, IMAP is an email protocol, which doesn't
>really apply in this context.
Yes, it's an email protocol. So what? It's a way of storing and
accessing messages, and what is a news client *but* a program for
storing and accessing messages?
>> - Mail folders, in several formats
>
> You access a news feed from mail folders? I'm not following
>you here. Agent does have the ability to create folders and store
>messages in them, if that's what you're referring to.
No, I mean the ability to head over to my mail folders, and treat
*them* as newsgroups. That way, if I archive messages for posterity,
those messages can sit on my mail spool, and be accessible just as
easily as they were when they were on an external news spool.
>>I think that all in all there are a goodly dozen different ways that
>>GNUS can access news. Can Agent match that?
>
> Apparently not. Is there another news protocol besides NNTP
>that is in wide use?
The point is that GNUS provides a whole lot of news access methods
that Agent *doesn't.* Combine this with virtual groups and scoring,
and it multiplies the power and flexibility.
>>b) Can you configure Agent to have a virtual newsgroup, [Linus
>> Torvalds], that consists of all messages authored by a particular
>> individual on comp.os.linux.*?
>
> You can set a filter that will automatically download those
>messages, but I don't think there is any way to automatically organize
>them into a seperate group, at least not in the version I am running
>(1.5, they're up to 1.8 now). That is a nice feature, now that you
>mention it.
>
>>c) Can you configure Agent so that messages similar to those that you
>> read wind up getting higher scores, those similar to those that you
>> respond to get *very* high scores, and those that you delete based
>> on subject/author info result in the subject/author/thread getting
>> deprecated?
>
> As in automatically (i.e. on the fly)? No. You can manually
>set filters and give them priorities, but it doesn't automatically
>monitor your reading habits. Gnus does this? If so, that is
>impressive.
It's been doing this for *years.*
>>d) Can you configure Agent to respond under a different persona
>> depending on which newsgroup (real or virtual) you are accessing?
>
> No, but I prefer to represent myself honestly when posting, so
>this is not a real plus in my opinion.
You are reading in dishonesty where it was not intended. On work-related
newsgroups, it may be necessary to add in "official corporate disclaimers"
that are not appropriate when posting to a group of personal interest.
>>e) Does Agent provide support for management of Moderated newsgroups?
>
> Not that I'm aware of.
>
>>f) Does Agent support the NoCeM protocol?
>
> No...just read up a little about this. It seems to be a good
>idea in theory, but looks a little shaky in it's execution. I'm all
>for the reduction of spam, but I'm not sure I'd like someone else
>making the decision of what is or is not spam for me. NoCeM looks a
>little not-quite-ready-for-prime-time to me.
>
>>g) Does Agent pass the Good Net-Keeping Seal of Approval tests?
>
> Oh wait! These were all rhetorical questions! <slaps
>forehead> Doh! :) I'm a little slow, but I'll eventually catch on...
All the questions have the same answer.
You suggested that you couldn't imagine GNUS having functionality
that wasn't in Free Agent. These are all items that suggest that you
weren't being quite imaginative enough.
These were only the more obvious items; GNUS is *appallingly* more
functional than *any* other news reader...
--
"Of course 5 years from now that will be different, but 5 years from
now everyone will be running free GNU on their 200 MIPS, 64M
SPARCstation-5." -- Andrew Tanenbaum, 1992.
[EMAIL PROTECTED] - - <http://www.ntlug.org/~cbbrowne/lsf.html>
------------------------------
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Subject: Re: Linux vs. Windows Benchmark
Date: Fri, 07 Apr 2000 01:10:02 GMT
In article <8cj158$paq$[EMAIL PROTECTED]>,
[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
> Hi --
>
> where can I find Linux vs. Windows benchmarks?
>
> Specifically, I am looking to compare O/S and application
> performance on the same Hardware platform.
>
> Any hints appreciated.
There are lies, there are damn lies, and there are benchmarks.
Murphy's law: Nothing you buy will ever perform as well as the vendor's
published specifications.
Corollary: Your optimum configuration will never be the same as the
configuration the vendor used to derive his published specifications.
In other words, test it yourself under your own "real-world"
conditions. The cost of hardware isn't an issue, since you say it would
be identical. You'll end up choosing one or the other of the two
combinations you proposed. Get the application vendor to agree to a
trial period of both a Linux and a Windows version of the product. Buy
a copy of Windows whatever. Download Linux for free or be extravagent
and buy a few copies of some different flavours of Linux (Linuxmall.com
is having a 99 cent special right now). In the end, it'll end up
costing you about the same regardless of your choice, and you'll have
made a decision based on facts, intead of damn lies.
Sent via Deja.com http://www.deja.com/
Before you buy.
------------------------------
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (Christopher Browne)
Subject: Programming Languages
Reply-To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Date: Fri, 07 Apr 2000 01:24:50 GMT
Centuries ago, Nostradamus foresaw a time when abraxas would say:
>Christopher Browne <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>> Centuries ago, Nostradamus foresaw a time when abraxas would say:
>>>Scripting languages are not programming languages.
>
>> I periodically hear this claim; I see enough production systems deployed
>> using "scripting" languages that I have to call this utter nonsense.
>
>The difference between scripting language and programming language has
>exactly zero to do with the scale or impressiveness of systems deployed
>using either.
You've provided exactly zero indication of what any differences *do*
have anything to do with.
Are scripting languages *languages?*
They tend to have grammar and syntax every bit as much as
do C, FORTRAN, Ada, and LISP.
Are they used for *programming?*
... Every bit as much as C, FORTRAN, Ada, and LISP.
I can't see any reasonable way of characterizing them as *not* being
programming languages.
--
When I die, I'd like to go peacefully in my sleep like my grandfather,
not screaming in terror like his passengers...
[EMAIL PROTECTED] - - <http://www.ntlug.org/~cbbrowne/languages.html>
------------------------------
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (Tim Kelley)
Subject: Re: A question fo Mark Bilk (way OT)
Date: Thu, 06 Apr 2000 21:47:00 GMT
Reply-To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
On Thu, 06 Apr 2000 20:14:12 GMT, [EMAIL PROTECTED]
<[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>Hi Mark,
> I'm just curious how do go about doing all of these Deja
>searches you do?
>
>Do you have some program that makes it easier/faster or do you just
>wade through the power searches?
>
>Reason I'm asking is I find deja to be maddeningly slow and I do not
>have the patience to wait and wait and wait for the information to
>appear.
The old dejanews interface is available here.
deja.com is also much faster if you use junkbuster to block their
ridiculous ads.
http://www.exit109.com/~jeremy/news/deja.html
--
Tim Kelley
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
------------------------------
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (Terry Porter)
Crossposted-To: comp.os.ms-windows.nt.advocacy,alt.destroy.microsoft
Subject: Re: The Failure of Microsoft Propaganda -was- So where are the MS supporters.
Reply-To: No-Spam
Date: 7 Apr 2000 09:44:23 +0800
On Thu, 06 Apr 2000 21:10:54 GMT, fmc <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>
>"Damien" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote in message
>news:[EMAIL PROTECTED]...
>> On Thu, 06 Apr 2000 17:45:06 GMT, in alt.destroy.microsoft,
>> fmc <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>> |
>> | "Damien" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote in message
>> | news:[EMAIL PROTECTED]...
>> | > On Thu, 06 Apr 2000 05:23:00 GMT, in alt.destroy.microsoft,
>> | > fmc <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>> | > |
>> | > | "Damien" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote in message
>> | > | news:[EMAIL PROTECTED]...
>> | > | > On Thu, 06 Apr 2000 02:42:15 GMT, in alt.destroy.microsoft,
>> | > | > fmc <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>> | >
>> | > | > | You see, my rights are not doled out by the government. I also
>> | happen
>> | > | to
>> | > | > | own MY intellectual property. I'm not interested in controlling
>> | anyone
>> | > | > | else's, and no one else has the right to copy what belongs to me
>> | without
>> | > | my
>> | > | > | permission. RS may think otherwise, but he's wrong.
>> | > | >
>> | > | > Really? Perhaps you can explain how you own the right to limit
>what
>> | > | > other people can say or do?
>> | > |
>> | > | Non sequitur. I said nothing about limiting someone else's rights,
>only
>> | > | about protecting my own.
>> | >
>> | > Okay then. You are a wonderful programmer. So wonderful that I just
>> | > purchase a CD of one of your wonderful programs. All of my friends
>> | > think your program is wonderful to, so I make them all copies. How
>> | > does this infringe on your rights?
>> |
>> | They infringed on my rights by using a program that I own the rights,
>> | without first getting my permission (or paying me if that's one of my
>> | requirements). You broke the law by making an illegal copy and
>distributing
>> | it. RS thinks it's OK to do that, but the laws are on my side.
>>
>> They used something that I provided them. You are out of the loop.
>> Neither you nor any of your belongings are involved. How are your
>> rights affected?
>
>If I bought a laptop from a pawnshop, and you later found out that it was
>the one that had been stolen from you, would you expect to get it back, or
>are you "out of the loop" because neither I nor the dealer had anything to
>do with the theft?
Bad example, there is only ONE laptop.
This topic has been rehashed to death, suppose I borrow your laptop,
stick it in a cloning machine, and make another, which I keep. You get yours
back ... what then, have you been robbed, was there theft, have you been denied
use of your laptop due to my cloning ?
--
Kind Regards
Terry
--
**** To reach me, use [EMAIL PROTECTED] ****
My Desktop is powered by GNU/Linux, and has been
up 4 days 14 hours 38 minutes
** Registration Number: 103931, http://counter.li.org **
------------------------------
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (Damien)
Crossposted-To: comp.os.ms-windows.nt.advocacy,alt.destroy.microsoft
Subject: Re: The Failure of Microsoft Propaganda -was- So where are the MS supporters.
Reply-To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Date: 07 Apr 2000 01:46:13 GMT
On Thu, 06 Apr 2000 21:22:38 GMT, in alt.destroy.microsoft,
fmc <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
|
| "Damien" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote in message
| news:[EMAIL PROTECTED]...
| > On Thu, 06 Apr 2000 17:48:53 GMT, in alt.destroy.microsoft,
| > fmc <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
| > |
| > | "Damien" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote in message
| > | news:[EMAIL PROTECTED]...
| > | > On Thu, 06 Apr 2000 06:33:52 GMT, in alt.destroy.microsoft,
| > | > fmc <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
| > | >
| > | > | > That's not an "also". You have rights to property because your
| rights
| > | are
| > | > | > inalienable, and not "doled out" or in any other way provided by
| the
| > | > | > government. Other than their successful efforts to ensure that
| > | other's
| > | > | don't
| > | > | > deal themselves into your rights on their own.
| > | > |
| > | > | I'll go along with that.
| > | > |
| > | > | >
| > | > | > But as far as *intellectual* property goes, the very concept is
| > | created
| > | > | and
| > | > | > manifest solely by government laws providing your ideas and your
| > | mental
| > | > | works
| > | > | > with the same protection against others as your speech and your
| > | physical
| > | > | > property.
| > | > |
| > | > | They created a concept, but not the innate rights.
| > | >
| > | > Tell me what right you have to control what people do with their
| > | > computer / VCR's / printing presses ?
| > |
| > | No more right than the law has in limiting what people can do with a
| > | crowbar. If you use one to break into my house, then you've violated
| the
| > | law.
| >
| > So you equate what I do in my home with my belongings with breaking
| > and entering?
|
| No, my analogy was about the improper use of a legal tool. You can use your
| hardware to copy your own files. You don't have the right to copy someone
| elses files unless they agree to give you that right.
Okay, so if they are my files, on my hardware I can do with them as I
please?
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