Linux-Advocacy Digest #993, Volume #28 Fri, 8 Sep 00 05:13:04 EDT
Contents:
Re: How low can they go...?
Re: How low can they go...? (T. Max Devlin)
Re: How low can they go...? (T. Max Devlin)
Re: How low can they go...? (T. Max Devlin)
Re: [OT] Public v. Private Schools (Donovan Rebbechi)
Re: How low can they go...? (Donovan Rebbechi)
Re: How low can they go...? (T. Max Devlin)
Re: How low can they go...? (T. Max Devlin)
Re: How low can they go...? (T. Max Devlin)
Re: How low can they go...? (T. Max Devlin)
Re: How low can they go...? (T. Max Devlin)
Re: How low can they go...? (T. Max Devlin)
Re: How low can they go...? (T. Max Devlin)
Re: How low can they go...? (T. Max Devlin)
Re: How low can they go...? (T. Max Devlin)
Re: How low can they go...? (T. Max Devlin)
Re: How low can they go...? (T. Max Devlin)
----------------------------------------------------------------------------
From: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Crossposted-To:
comp.lang.java.advocacy,comp.os.ms-windows.advocacy,comp.os.ms-windows.nt.advocacy
Subject: Re: How low can they go...?
Date: Fri, 8 Sep 2000 00:12:25 -0700
Reply-To: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Erik Funkenbusch <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote in message
news:BWZt5.128$[EMAIL PROTECTED]...
> <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote in message
> news:8p9nms$ipa$[EMAIL PROTECTED]...
> > Well if you have not been following several different threads, my
> statement
> > and the reason for it might not be clear.
> >
> > 1. It has been stated that Microsoft has issued quarterly update for
> > Windows since Window 95 first came out in the form of free service
packs.
> I
> > estimate that if that statement was correct, there would be 12 quarterly
> > service pack for Windows 95. So I asked where I could locate those 12
> > service packs to upgrade my Window 95 Retail to the most recent version
of
> > Windows 95. I never recieved any reply to my request. In spite of that
> > failure to respond to my request, the claims continued
>
> Service pack 1 exists. IE 1 was the internet service pack. IE2 was an
> upgrade to that. IE3 was another service pack, plus there was IE3.01 and
> 3.02. IE4 was another service pack. Then there was IE4 SP1 and IE4 SP2,
> then came IE4.01 and then IE5 and IE5.5. That's 12 so far. Then there
was
> DirectX 1-7 (18 so far, there was no DX4), Then there was DCOM98 service
> pack, the OpenGL service pack (Windows 95 didn't ship with OpenGL, it was
> added later). (20 so far), then there was MediaPlayer 1 and 2, then Media
> Player 7.
Do all these install into WIndows 95 Retail? In the end will WIdows 95
Retail be identical to the last revision of Window 95? Of course not. So
there was no real commitment to support the customer in this reguard. No
quaartlery services pack to bring you up to the current revision of Windows
95.
> That's 23 service packs off the top of my head, and there were more. Each
> of these were upgrades to existing Win95 installations that came with
later
> versions of the OS.
>
> > 2. Some one stated that it would not be possible to aquire latter
> versions
> > of Windows 95 without having to purchase a prebuilt computer that
included
> a
> > preloaded or otherwise bundled copy of Windows 95. This was refuted by
> > many.
>
> It's not credibly refuted by anyone. There were 2 version of Win95
retail.
> The second version came much later with SR1 and IE4. You could not get
> FAT32 or USB support without buying a new computer.
Which is proof of my statement above.
------------------------------
From: T. Max Devlin <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Crossposted-To:
comp.lang.java.advocacy,comp.os.ms-windows.advocacy,comp.os.ms-windows.nt.advocacy
Subject: Re: How low can they go...?
Date: Fri, 08 Sep 2000 03:55:35 -0400
Reply-To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Said D'Arcy Smith in comp.os.linux.advocacy;
><[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote in message
>news:8p47nj$o9b$[EMAIL PROTECTED]...
>> D'Arcy Smith <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote in message
>> news:y3ft5.9646$[EMAIL PROTECTED]...
>> > "Christophe Ochal" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote in message
>> > news:7F8t5.825$[EMAIL PROTECTED]...
>> > > D'Arcy Smith <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> schreef in berichtnieuws
>
>> > > > So the DVD license holder is attempting to "squash small OS's"...
>> > > > and why exactly is the DVD license holder trying to do that?
>
>> > > How much do they ask for a licence?
>
>> > The cost isn't there to stop DVD software from appearing
>> > on "alternative" OS'. A side effect of the cost is that it stops
>> > people from writing DVD software for small platforms.
>
>> > You are the one claiming that the DVD license holder is attempting
>> > to "squash small OS's" - what proof do you have of that? Licensing
>> > fees themselves don't show such a desire. Why exactly do
>> > you think that they want to "squash" any OS anyways?
>
>> Reguardless of the reason for it, what is the cost?
>
>Dunno... and it doesn't matter to the conversation.
Well, it matters to the conversation, but it doesn't matter to this
point, I think.
The reason everyone is describing this issue in terms of some putative
'anti-Linux' sentiment is because it is a dove-tail issue; free software
and monopolization (or, more formally, restraint of trade).
The truth does support your contention, D'Arcy, but not your position.
Licensing isn't used to 'squash' any OS, and the DVD license holder, nor
the copyright holder, has no reason, so far as we know, to care about
which OSes implement DVD players. So long as, as you've so routinely
pointed out, they have a license.
The cost of the license is, in fact, tremendous, I'm sure, as the very
point of copyrighting the software needed to read a DVD and then
wrapping it in a trade secret licensing is to profiteer. That huge
amount is far too much for 'free software' advocates to be able to (or
to even consider on their conscience) pay, and so the DVD copyright
holder (just who the hell is that, anyway; I think its Phillips, but
they're getting the MPAA to do their dirty work) is excluding some OSes;
if their goal was to have a wide audience for their 'product', then they
should want to sell it on as many platforms as possible, and there's
nothing wrong with 'discriminative pricing' in dealing with situations
of this nature. Most particularly because the value of the 'product'
would be even greater if, instead of a 'huge barrier up-front
multi-million payment', which is undoubtedly the mechanism used, a
'royalty' arrangement was used. It would certainly seem more
appropriate, for if the actual royalty fee is minuscule enough, it might
even be considered an ethical line of business.
As it is, its profiteering, and nothing more. Well, other than
extortion, for what's going on now, with the restraining orders and all.
http://www.eff.org/pub/Intellectual_property/Video/DVDCCA_case/
--
T. Max Devlin
-- Such is my recollection of my reconstruction
of events at the time, as I recall. Consider it.
Research assistance gladly accepted. --
====== Posted via Newsfeeds.Com, Uncensored Usenet News ======
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======= Over 80,000 Newsgroups = 16 Different Servers! ======
------------------------------
From: T. Max Devlin <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Crossposted-To:
comp.lang.java.advocacy,comp.os.ms-windows.advocacy,comp.os.ms-windows.nt.advocacy
Subject: Re: How low can they go...?
Date: Fri, 08 Sep 2000 04:01:35 -0400
Reply-To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Said Simon Cooke in comp.os.linux.advocacy;
><[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote in message
[...]
>> Once the decoded DVD is in system RAM, the game is over.
>>
>> It doesn't matter if it's through DeCSS or WinDVD.
>
>Duuuuh... and?
>
>The thing is, DeCSS is specifically meant for extracting the stream. That's
>the issue they have. If it was for playback, so what.
WinDVD is specifically meant to extract the stream, as well. Just
because its limited to playback, so what.
--
T. Max Devlin
-- Such is my recollection of my reconstruction
of events at the time, as I recall. Consider it.
Research assistance gladly accepted. --
====== Posted via Newsfeeds.Com, Uncensored Usenet News ======
http://www.newsfeeds.com - The #1 Newsgroup Service in the World!
======= Over 80,000 Newsgroups = 16 Different Servers! ======
------------------------------
From: T. Max Devlin <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Crossposted-To:
comp.lang.java.advocacy,comp.os.ms-windows.advocacy,comp.os.ms-windows.nt.advocacy
Subject: Re: How low can they go...?
Date: Fri, 08 Sep 2000 04:04:14 -0400
Reply-To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Said Simon Cooke in comp.os.linux.advocacy;
[...]
>> give me one piece of "evidence" that M$ produced that was valid
>
>Everything entered into the record as evidence (you can see a whole slew of
>these things at http://www.microsoft.com/presspass) except the video
>footage, as it was edited to produce in a smaller amount of time.
So you gets all your information from Microsoft press releases, and
consider everything in them to be perfectly valid, is that what you
said?
--
T. Max Devlin
-- Such is my recollection of my reconstruction
of events at the time, as I recall. Consider it.
Research assistance gladly accepted. --
====== Posted via Newsfeeds.Com, Uncensored Usenet News ======
http://www.newsfeeds.com - The #1 Newsgroup Service in the World!
======= Over 80,000 Newsgroups = 16 Different Servers! ======
------------------------------
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (Donovan Rebbechi)
Crossposted-To:
comp.os.os2.advocacy,comp.sys.mac.advocacy,comp.os.ms-windows.nt.advocacy
Subject: Re: [OT] Public v. Private Schools
Date: 8 Sep 2000 08:07:09 GMT
On Thu, 07 Sep 2000 23:28:16 -0400, Aaron R. Kulkis wrote:
>Donovan Rebbechi wrote:
>>
>> On Thu, 07 Sep 2000 20:42:20 -0400, Aaron R. Kulkis wrote:
>> >Donovan Rebbechi wrote:
>> >>
>> >> On Thu, 07 Sep 2000 17:25:12 -0400, Aaron R. Kulkis wrote:
>> >>
>> >> >Of course....in the US, the incomong junior high students are
>> >> >also mis-educated, with idiotic ideas like "invented spelling" and
>> >> >"see and say" reading.
>> >>
>> >> Well, I went to an American public school for a year, as did my brother
>> >> and sister, and none of us did anything of the sort.
>> >
>> >This is being taught in the K-3 years. If they are thoroughly
>> >propagandized by 4th grade that there is no 'correct' spelling,
>> >then they are pretty much lost to everything.
>>
>> My sister took first grade and I don't believe that's how they
>> taught it. That would've been about 10 years ago FYI.
>
>In other words.. .not today.
Well, yes, today. I mean, she's finishing high school this year, so she
represents todays data points on the performance of high school students.
If it was true that the poor performance of today's high
school students is due to poor elementary school teaching, then it
obviously is a reflection of the teaching *those* students received
at elementary school, 10 or so years back. It doesn't say anything
about teaching methods that were not used when they went through.
--
Donovan
------------------------------
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (Donovan Rebbechi)
Crossposted-To:
comp.lang.java.advocacy,comp.os.ms-windows.advocacy,comp.os.ms-windows.nt.advocacy
Subject: Re: How low can they go...?
Date: 8 Sep 2000 08:16:23 GMT
On Fri, 08 Sep 2000 02:08:06 -0400, T. Max Devlin wrote:
>Said Donovan Rebbechi in comp.os.linux.advocacy;
>>On Thu, 07 Sep 2000 13:46:01 -0400, Seán Ó Donnchadha wrote:
>>>"Simon Cooke" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>>
>>>Simon, forget it. It's like trying to explain basic algebra - to a
>>>parakeet.
>>
>>Not quite. Parokeets are ignorant, but not arrogant. Max is both.
>
>And this makes me different from everyone else... how?
Well, there are many in this group that lack your ignorance ( willful and
otherwise ) and there are also many that are not as arrogant. There are
some who manage to be neither ignorant or arrogant. ( duh! )
--
Donovan
------------------------------
From: T. Max Devlin <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Crossposted-To:
comp.lang.java.advocacy,comp.os.ms-windows.advocacy,comp.os.ms-windows.nt.advocacy
Subject: Re: How low can they go...?
Date: Fri, 08 Sep 2000 04:19:17 -0400
Reply-To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Said [EMAIL PROTECTED] () in comp.os.linux.advocacy;
>On Wed, 06 Sep 2000 18:01:55 GMT, Simon Cooke <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>>"Christophe Ochal" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote in message
[...]
>>Quicken, TurboTax, anything using HTML Help (which are numerous), Neoplanet,
>>anything using a web browser window.
>
> OTOH, such components need not be imbeded in the OS to achieve
> such things. Netscape + BMC Patrol under Sparc Solaris would be
> a nice counterexample.
I'm sorry, I just have to say, THIS WHOLE ARGUMENT IS SILLY. Citing the
number of products which do or do not support a *monopoly product*, is
rather self-referential, don't you think? Simon, like most people
deluded on this issue, fails to recognize that any browser can display
HTML Help (or should, if you're going to call it 'HTML' help), and I
doubt that lack of a web browser would make a product like Quicken
malfunction in any real way, though obviously all those wizz-bang
features which use the browser wouldn't quite function very well. No
telling, of course, if anyone would care. Nobody's been complaining
about the massive failures that IE integration causes, either, again,
because the problem with monopoly is that you haven't much to compare it
with, i'nit?
To mention "Neoplanet" is really pulling one out of your ass. And none
of these would disfunctional in even the tiniest way if they simply
installed IE when necessary. So Microsoft's removing it from the OS, or
any inability or benefit to avoiding it, is pure rubbish. The only
problem MS or anyone else would have removing IE from Win98 (even if all
they did was wave their hand and delete the icon, the way just about
everyone seemed to want) is that it would expose the monopoly to a
middleware threat.
--
T. Max Devlin
-- Such is my recollection of my reconstruction
of events at the time, as I recall. Consider it.
Research assistance gladly accepted. --
====== Posted via Newsfeeds.Com, Uncensored Usenet News ======
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======= Over 80,000 Newsgroups = 16 Different Servers! ======
------------------------------
From: T. Max Devlin <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Crossposted-To:
comp.lang.java.advocacy,comp.os.ms-windows.advocacy,comp.os.ms-windows.nt.advocacy
Subject: Re: How low can they go...?
Date: Fri, 08 Sep 2000 04:21:51 -0400
Reply-To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Said Simon Cooke in comp.os.linux.advocacy;
>
><[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote in message
>news:[EMAIL PROTECTED]...
>> Note how it is only the browser that is seen as a shareable component
>> and noone seems to be mentioning any other examples. It's rather
>> obvious that Microsoft only did what it did to Mosaic to undermine
>> Netscape rather than it being good engineering.
>
>Netscape lost a deal with Intuit for not having a componentizable browser.
>Similarly, that's why AOL went with IE.
These are both lies, Simon. I'm not saying you're lying, you're merely
mistaken. Microsoft lied when they printed them on the press release
you're reading all your ideas from. Complete fabrications; Microsoft
had to go through tremendous contortions to 'convince' either company to
use, let alone exclusively support, IE. This fact is well documented in
Microsoft's internal email and the transcript record.
>As for the rest -- HTML Help makes great sense.
HTML help is a stupid idea, but that is entirely beside the point.
>Using a browser to navigate the file system -- if it's such a stupid idea,
>why does KDE do it?
Because KDE doesn't make decisions for the user; they can do it if they
want. I doubt anyone does. Its another stupid idea.
--
T. Max Devlin
-- Such is my recollection of my reconstruction
of events at the time, as I recall. Consider it.
Research assistance gladly accepted. --
====== Posted via Newsfeeds.Com, Uncensored Usenet News ======
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======= Over 80,000 Newsgroups = 16 Different Servers! ======
------------------------------
From: T. Max Devlin <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Crossposted-To:
comp.lang.java.advocacy,comp.os.ms-windows.advocacy,comp.os.ms-windows.nt.advocacy
Subject: Re: How low can they go...?
Date: Fri, 08 Sep 2000 04:25:10 -0400
Reply-To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Said [EMAIL PROTECTED] () in comp.os.linux.advocacy;
[...]
>>As for the rest -- HTML Help makes great sense.
>
> Why bother? The previous version of the help file format
> supported the same featureset. There was no real reason
> to change from one to the other except give a Monopolist
> an excuse (good enough for dupes like you) to arbitrarily
> expand the role of their operating system.
Microsoft's monumental thrashing in the help component of Windows is one
of the most fascinating studies I think you could make of their long
reign as a monopoly. A rich history of tremendous variety and
diversity, where Microsoft themselves typically provide more than half a
dozen mechanisms for help in less than half a dozen different products.
[...]
--
T. Max Devlin
-- Such is my recollection of my reconstruction
of events at the time, as I recall. Consider it.
Research assistance gladly accepted. --
====== Posted via Newsfeeds.Com, Uncensored Usenet News ======
http://www.newsfeeds.com - The #1 Newsgroup Service in the World!
======= Over 80,000 Newsgroups = 16 Different Servers! ======
------------------------------
From: T. Max Devlin <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Crossposted-To:
comp.lang.java.advocacy,comp.os.ms-windows.advocacy,comp.os.ms-windows.nt.advocacy
Subject: Re: How low can they go...?
Date: Fri, 08 Sep 2000 04:27:37 -0400
Reply-To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Said Simon Cooke in comp.os.linux.advocacy;
[...]
>Actually, it's to make help authoring easier, and to provide more
>flexibility. HTML Help has a wider featureset than the previous help file
>format.
I think you're deluded on this point. Except perhaps unless you're
counting theoretical capabilities that are entirely unused in almost
every case, except for Microsoft's intrusive crap with the paper-clip,
and all...
>If you knew anything about it, you'd know that. I suggest reading up
>on it on http://msdn.microsoft.com
Yea, that's what I thought. The fucking paperclip.
>I'm sorry I haven't had time yet to read every post you've made to Usenet.
>I'm sure I'll be able to do it over the coming weekend.
Why don't you just pick one post, and then keep re-reading it until you
understand it, for once.
--
T. Max Devlin
-- Such is my recollection of my reconstruction
of events at the time, as I recall. Consider it.
Research assistance gladly accepted. --
====== Posted via Newsfeeds.Com, Uncensored Usenet News ======
http://www.newsfeeds.com - The #1 Newsgroup Service in the World!
======= Over 80,000 Newsgroups = 16 Different Servers! ======
------------------------------
From: T. Max Devlin <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Crossposted-To:
comp.lang.java.advocacy,comp.os.ms-windows.advocacy,comp.os.ms-windows.nt.advocacy
Subject: Re: How low can they go...?
Date: Fri, 08 Sep 2000 04:35:09 -0400
Reply-To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Said Seán Ó Donnchadha in comp.os.linux.advocacy;
>On Wed, 6 Sep 2000 16:47:20 -0700, <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
[...]
>Why use one format for online help and another for expanded help on
>the Web?
Because one is good for online help, and another is good for web pages,
which literally SUCK at being 'expanded help'.
>Why force the user to switch apps when jumping from one to
>the other?
Because different control mechanisms provide efficiencies, which is the
entire reason we have the computer. "Soft"ware, remember?
>The move to HTML for help didn't just make sense; anything
>else would have been an act of utter stupidity.
It was forestalling; Microsoft used HTML for help, despite the fact that
its a rather bad idea, and nobody at all was clambering for the *lesser
functionality* of using a web browser to view on-line documentation
(that means local), guided significantly by the proof-of-stupidity that
is the Netscape help feature. They used every excuse they could for
putting everything in Windows they could into the leveragable
functionality of the web browser, so that the wedging of IE into Win98
would kill Netscape. The help system was an easy call; morons like
Simon even think that its a good idea to begin with.
--
T. Max Devlin
-- Such is my recollection of my reconstruction
of events at the time, as I recall. Consider it.
Research assistance gladly accepted. --
====== Posted via Newsfeeds.Com, Uncensored Usenet News ======
http://www.newsfeeds.com - The #1 Newsgroup Service in the World!
======= Over 80,000 Newsgroups = 16 Different Servers! ======
------------------------------
From: T. Max Devlin <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Crossposted-To:
comp.lang.java.advocacy,comp.os.ms-windows.advocacy,comp.os.ms-windows.nt.advocacy
Subject: Re: How low can they go...?
Date: Fri, 08 Sep 2000 04:36:00 -0400
Reply-To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Said Simon Cooke in comp.os.linux.advocacy;
><[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote in message
>
>> Yes, it was a perfect pretext to help in their neferious acitvities of
>tying
>> non-OS services into the OS and thereby further locking in customer.
>
>Who are you to decide what belongs in an *APPLICATIONS PLATFORM* and what
>doesn't?
The customer.
--
T. Max Devlin
-- Such is my recollection of my reconstruction
of events at the time, as I recall. Consider it.
Research assistance gladly accepted. --
====== Posted via Newsfeeds.Com, Uncensored Usenet News ======
http://www.newsfeeds.com - The #1 Newsgroup Service in the World!
======= Over 80,000 Newsgroups = 16 Different Servers! ======
------------------------------
From: T. Max Devlin <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Crossposted-To:
comp.lang.java.advocacy,comp.os.ms-windows.advocacy,comp.os.ms-windows.nt.advocacy
Subject: Re: How low can they go...?
Date: Fri, 08 Sep 2000 04:37:05 -0400
Reply-To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Said [EMAIL PROTECTED] () in comp.os.linux.advocacy;
[...]
> Winhelp may be many things, but a notoriously bloated and
> crashprone piece of crap it was not. It's still not obvious
> that there is infact a point in dumping it.
To provide an excuse to integrate the web browser, obviously.
--
T. Max Devlin
-- Such is my recollection of my reconstruction
of events at the time, as I recall. Consider it.
Research assistance gladly accepted. --
====== Posted via Newsfeeds.Com, Uncensored Usenet News ======
http://www.newsfeeds.com - The #1 Newsgroup Service in the World!
======= Over 80,000 Newsgroups = 16 Different Servers! ======
------------------------------
From: T. Max Devlin <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Crossposted-To:
comp.lang.java.advocacy,comp.os.ms-windows.advocacy,comp.os.ms-windows.nt.advocacy
Subject: Re: How low can they go...?
Date: Fri, 08 Sep 2000 04:42:38 -0400
Reply-To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Said Erik Funkenbusch in comp.os.linux.advocacy;
>"Christophe Ochal" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote in message
[...]
>Edward Felton, and you'll find from the evidence I just provided that his
>program does NOT remove internet explorer. It just disables it. IE can be
>removed, but it cannot be removed without either a) breaking the machine or
>b) replacing it with something else when key OS functions are removed.
c) re-writing the software so that it isn't in there anymore but key OS
functions are not removed
--
T. Max Devlin
-- Such is my recollection of my reconstruction
of events at the time, as I recall. Consider it.
Research assistance gladly accepted. --
====== Posted via Newsfeeds.Com, Uncensored Usenet News ======
http://www.newsfeeds.com - The #1 Newsgroup Service in the World!
======= Over 80,000 Newsgroups = 16 Different Servers! ======
------------------------------
From: T. Max Devlin <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Crossposted-To:
comp.lang.java.advocacy,comp.os.ms-windows.advocacy,comp.os.ms-windows.nt.advocacy
Subject: Re: How low can they go...?
Date: Fri, 08 Sep 2000 04:44:30 -0400
Reply-To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Said Erik Funkenbusch in comp.os.linux.advocacy;
>"Christophe Ochal" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote in message
>news:9Jrt5.912$[EMAIL PROTECTED]...
>> Erik Funkenbusch <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> schreef in berichtnieuws
>> Msmt5.8927$[EMAIL PROTECTED]
>>
>> <cut>
>>
>> > > give me one piece of "evidence" that M$ produced that was valid
>> >
>> > I just did.
>>
>> Ok, i accept these :)
>>
>> But is this proof that they are infact, "innocent?"
>
>Of course not. Just that you're paying way too much attention to rumor than
>fact.
His point was, I think, that none of Microsoft's 'evidence' provides any
defense whatsoever, but is mere handwaving. Which is to say that we are
paying attention to facts-in-evidence, and you're treating Microsoft
press releases as something more than what they are, which is hearsay,
or rumor.
--
T. Max Devlin
-- Such is my recollection of my reconstruction
of events at the time, as I recall. Consider it.
Research assistance gladly accepted. --
====== Posted via Newsfeeds.Com, Uncensored Usenet News ======
http://www.newsfeeds.com - The #1 Newsgroup Service in the World!
======= Over 80,000 Newsgroups = 16 Different Servers! ======
------------------------------
From: T. Max Devlin <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Crossposted-To:
comp.lang.java.advocacy,comp.os.ms-windows.advocacy,comp.os.ms-windows.nt.advocacy
Subject: Re: How low can they go...?
Date: Fri, 08 Sep 2000 04:47:01 -0400
Reply-To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Said <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> in comp.os.linux.advocacy;
>
>Seán Ó Donnchadha <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote in message
>news:[EMAIL PROTECTED]...
>> On Wed, 6 Sep 2000 15:32:48 -0700, <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>>
>> >
>> >What foolishness, that queston as hand was is it possible for Windows 95
>to
>> >run without Microsoft Internet Explorer.
>> >
>>
>> No, the question was whether IE could be removed from today's Windows
>> without damaging the product. The answer is no. Microsoft didn't lie.
>
>Windows 98 was not available yet. Window 98 SE was not available yet.
>Windows ME was not available yet. Windows 2000 was not available yet. Only
>Windows 95 and before was available, it was Windows 95 that was the subject
>of the lie.
I think Sean is unaware that before the injunction preventing Win98 from
being sold was overturned, there was an injunction which was not
overturned, which prevented Win95+IE bundles from being sold, as
Microsoft had attempted to do to get their restraint of trade underway
and prime the market for Win98.
--
T. Max Devlin
-- Such is my recollection of my reconstruction
of events at the time, as I recall. Consider it.
Research assistance gladly accepted. --
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From: T. Max Devlin <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Crossposted-To:
comp.lang.java.advocacy,comp.os.ms-windows.advocacy,comp.os.ms-windows.nt.advocacy
Subject: Re: How low can they go...?
Date: Fri, 08 Sep 2000 04:49:03 -0400
Reply-To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Said Erik Funkenbusch in comp.os.linux.advocacy;
><[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote in message
>news:8p6n2l$jfd$[EMAIL PROTECTED]...
>> Seán Ó Donnchadha <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote in message
>> > No, the question was whether IE could be removed from today's Windows
>> > without damaging the product. The answer is no. Microsoft didn't lie.
>>
>> Windows 98 was not available yet. Window 98 SE was not available yet.
>> Windows ME was not available yet. Windows 2000 was not available yet.
>Only
>> Windows 95 and before was available, it was Windows 95 that was the
>subject
>> of the lie.
>
>Actually, Windows 98 did exist, and the DOJ was asking for an injunction on
>shipping Windows 98. The specific testimony in question was given over the
>period of time from Febuary 3-5th, 1999. Or more than 8 months after
>Windows 98 shipped.
There was an earlier one, I believe, an injunction which stopped
shipment of Win95+IE, before Win98 was shipped.
--
T. Max Devlin
-- Such is my recollection of my reconstruction
of events at the time, as I recall. Consider it.
Research assistance gladly accepted. --
====== Posted via Newsfeeds.Com, Uncensored Usenet News ======
http://www.newsfeeds.com - The #1 Newsgroup Service in the World!
======= Over 80,000 Newsgroups = 16 Different Servers! ======
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