Linux-Advocacy Digest #766, Volume #26 Tue, 30 May 00 10:13:08 EDT
Contents:
Re: Console programming (2:1)
Re: There is only one innovation that matters... (was Re: Micros~1 (2:1)
Re: Whilst at the store! (Sam)
Re: Would a M$ Voluntary Split Save It? (Seán Ó Donnchadha)
Re: Tholen's Thole tholenated - Thread now tholenified (Marty)
Re: how to enter a bug report against linux? ("Peter T. Breuer")
Re: Goodwin's Law invoked - Thread now dead (Marty)
Re: QB 4.5 in Win 2000 (budgie)
Re: You all BAFFLE ME! CANT YOU READ?!?!?! (Was OS/2 isnt dead... I just forgot to
say Thank You to IBM...) (John Poltorak)
Re: The Mainframe VS the PC. (abraxas)
Re: QB 4.5 in Win 2000 (T. Max Devlin)
----------------------------------------------------------------------------
From: 2:1 <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: Re: Console programming
Date: Tue, 30 May 2000 13:30:57 +0100
Michael Mamone wrote:
>
> Hello.
> I am writing a game for DS171, and I've decided to focus my efforts on using
> Linux based utilities. I was wondering if there are any decent online tutorials
> for things like Ncurses, or svgalib (does that include the vgagl library?).
> Thanks.
>
The best war of learning how to use something is to pick on a simple
enough project (like tetris, which you can do with graphics or text) and
write it.
The SVGAlib man pages are *very* good. The installation includes vgagl.
In order to use vgagl, you must include and link to both libvga and
libvgagl. To use SVGAlib only, you do not need to use vgagl. Some time
in the next year (depending on how dedicated he is) a friend of mine
might be bringing out a nice set of libs to sit on top of SVGAlib which
provide size independent plotting and depth independent colour, amongst
other things.
-Ed
--
The day of judgement cometh. Join us O sinful one...
http://fuji.stcatz.ox.ac.uk/cult/index.html
------------------------------
From: 2:1 <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Crossposted-To:
comp.os.ms-windows.nt.advocacy,comp.os.os2.advocacy,comp.sys.mac.advocacy,comp.sys.be.advocacy,comp.os.unix.advocacy,comp.os.ms-windows.advocacy,comp.os.ms-windows.nt.advocacy,comp.sys.amiga.advocacy,comp.sys.be.advocacy
Subject: Re: There is only one innovation that matters... (was Re: Micros~1
Date: Tue, 30 May 2000 13:48:58 +0100
´Olafur Gunnlaugsson wrote:
>
> "Stephen S. Edwards II" wrote:
>
> > [crossposted, just to see what folks from the different OS camps might
> > have to say about this...]
> >
> > Mig Mig <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes:
> >
> > : Is this it?? They [Micro~1] must have innovated something?
> > : Come on boys , THINK!
> >
> > Microsoft's main innovation is quite obvious: putting lots of computing
> > power into the hands of general consumers. Who else, besides, Commodore,
> > Apple, IBM, or Atari has even attempted this?
>
> Osbourne, Sinclair, (Intergalactic)Digital Research, Newbrain, Acorn, BBC,
Pedant point from a BBC fan. `BBC' are not now, and never have been a
computer company. They're a national broadcast company (The British
Broadcasting Corporation). They worked with Acorn (who produced the
`BBC' computer the AMOS operating system) as part of a (gouvernment?)
education plan designed to get computers in to school. And I've just
found a sideways ROM expansion kit. Eeeee hee, hee, heeeeeeeee!!!
Long live the Owl!
-Ed
> Sord, Epson, Rising Star, DRI (holland not that other one :), Dragon, Tandy
> Radio Shack, Tatung, A, Atlantis, Victor, Apricot, Sharp, Randofin, Tangerine,
> Amstrad, Kuma, Adobe, etc etc etc the list is endless
>
> Well you asked..........
>
> I am going to include Memotech and NeXT cause those computers looked so damn
> cool, and sported the correct colour for computers..
>
> And interestingly enough all those more innovative than microsoft to boot.
>
> But the poster compleatly misses the point, Microsoft like most computer
> companies make most of their income suppying company's, consumeres are a minor
> issue
> --
> 'Olafur Gunnlaugsson
> http://olafur.net
> "Interpol und deutche bank fbi und scotland yard, finanzamt und das bka haben
> unsere daten da"
--
The day of judgement cometh. Join us O sinful one...
http://fuji.stcatz.ox.ac.uk/cult/index.html
------------------------------
From: Sam <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Crossposted-To: comp.os.ms-windows.advocacy,comp.os.ms-windows.nt.advocacy
Subject: Re: Whilst at the store!
Date: Tue, 30 May 2000 23:02:20 +1000
On Mon, 29 May 2000 22:28:40 GMT, Charlie Ebert <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
wrote:
>I ran into three old men whilst at the store.
>
>They were windows supporters and were complaining about
>the breakup.
>
>They didn't understand why there needed to be a breakup
>because they'd been listening to CSPAN and CNN and in
>hearing the various government officials talk about the
>problem they couldn't grasp the reason for the breakup.
>
>I interrupted them and joined in on their conversation.
>
>They asked me why the breakup occurred. I told them I don't
>exactly know the governments reasons either, but I'd be interested
>in hearing what they've heard.
>
>They told me it was because Microsoft products weren't compatible
>with OTHER computer software products, sighting WORD and
>INTERNET EXPLORER. I agreed.
Crap, Star office reads word files and IE reads standard HTML.
Plus since MS Office is dominant it's up to others to be compatible
with it.
>They said the cost of their software has doubled in the last 4 years.
>I agreed again.
Funny for me prices have gone down.
BTW I remember paying over $1000 each for DbaseIV and OS/2
>They said that if you want to run WORD you'd have to run it on
>a Microsoft Operating system. I agreed and added that
>if you wanted to develop software using Visual Basic the
>same would apply also. In fact, just about ALL the Microsoft
>software sold would ONLY run on a Microsoft OS.
>No arguments so far in this conversation.
What's wrong with that ? There are other programming languages which
are faster even.
<snip>
>They repeated their assertions and I said, "Look!"
>When I worked for another company I was in tip development of their
>medical product line and I was told my contribution to the companies
>bottom line was only about 10% of the company. The other 90% of
>our bottom line dollars came from support contracts. That's where
>Red hat and the others are making their money.
Redhat still does not have a sustainable business plan.
Last I heard Linuxcare was toast for the same reason.
If the company I work for ever (for some strange reason) went to Linux
we would not need Redhat for support. We are chock-a=block with cluey
guys on OS's. Plus isn't Linux set and forget ?
Redhat cannot generate enough cash with support. Heck if it came to it
I would take it up and undercut them. How hard can it be.
>They said what if they didn't want to run Linux.
>I told them, it's a free country. You can run Microsoft
>for as long as you think it will last.
>
>They reminded me of the AT&T breakup in the 70's and what occurred.
>I told them that AT&T had billions in assets which Microsoft doesn't
>have. Microsoft's main assets are in the ability to keep their
>product line all working for ONLY a Microsoft inspired OS?
MS has 10's of billions in the bank and an ever expanding portfolio.
<snip sorry bored>
Sam
------------------------------
From: Seán Ó Donnchadha <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Crossposted-To:
comp.sys.mac.advocacy,comp.os.os2.advocacy,comp.os.ms-windows.nt.advocacy
Subject: Re: Would a M$ Voluntary Split Save It?
Date: Tue, 30 May 2000 09:14:48 -0400
On 28 May 2000 11:52:00 GMT, [EMAIL PROTECTED] (rj friedman) wrote:
>
>¯Actually sonny boy, I've worked in both worlds, and I know that the
>¯Windows experience really is about a hundred times tastier than the
>¯world of commercial Unix software. Don't get me wrong. Jihad-oriented
>¯software like GNU/Linux/OpenSource is usually damn good, which is
>¯understandable given that it's developed without the pressures of
>¯commercial competition. But end-user Unix applications are on average
>¯bloatier, buggier, uglier, much less usable, and overall shittier than
>¯their Windows counterparts. Now I realize that you and your fellow
>¯McNealy suck buddies will never have the decency to admit that
>¯publically. But you can start by admitting it to yourselves.
>
>
>It has long been a contention of mine that the only people
>in the computing world who aren't absolutely repulsed by MS
>are the suckers and those who rely on the suckers to earn
>their silver. Thanks for helping me bear that out.
>
And it has long been a contention of mine that people who bash
Microsoft nonstop are nothing more than brainless lemmings who think
they're cool because their point of view is so trendy. In reality they
know squat about software and only make themselves look even more
stupid by talking out the wrong end all the time. Thanks for helping
me bear that out, RJ.
------------------------------
From: Marty <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Crossposted-To:
comp.sys.mac.advocacy,comp.os.os2.advocacy,comp.os.ms-windows.nt.advocacy
Subject: Re: Tholen's Thole tholenated - Thread now tholenified
Date: Tue, 30 May 2000 13:28:11 GMT
Shock Boy wrote:
>
> "Marty" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote in message
> news:[EMAIL PROTECTED]...
> > Shock Boy wrote:
> > >
> > > "Marty" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote in message
> > > news:[EMAIL PROTECTED]...
> > > > Shock Boy wrote:
> > > > >
> > > > > "Marty" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote in message
> > > > > news:[EMAIL PROTECTED]...
> > > > > > Shock Boy wrote:
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > "Mayor" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote in message
> > > > > > > news:[EMAIL PROTECTED]...
> > > > > > > > In article <0_WW4.10747$[EMAIL PROTECTED]>,
> > > > > > > > [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
> > > > > > > > >Mayor writes:
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > >>> Christopher Smith writes:
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > >>>>>> We sic Tholen onto you.
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > >>>>> Who is "we"?
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > >>>> We is us.
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > >>> Who is "us"?
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > >> Us is "we", obviously.
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > >Classic circular reasoning.
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > If A=B does not B=A?
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > And that does nothign to tell you
> > > > > >
> > > > > > What it does "nothign" to tell us is irrelevant. What you can
> > > > > > prove is relevant.
> > > >
> > > > Note: no response.
> > >
> > > No response
> >
> > Restating the obvious?
Note: no response.
> > > as you did not ask a question to respond to.
> >
> > Irrelevant, as a question is not a necessary precondition for a response.
>
> Well, what do you wish me to respond to?
What I wish for you to do is irrelevant.
> > > > > > > if in actuality, A=B
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Illogical. A=B is a given. Haven't you been paying attention?
> > > > >
> > > > > You stated "IF". Not that it "IS".
> > > >
> > > > Attribution problems, Shock Boy? I made no such statement. More
> > > > evidence of your reading comprehension problems.
> > > >
> > > > However, whether or not I stated such a thing is irrelevant, as "us
> > > > = we" is a given.
> > >
> > > Sorry, that is not correct..
> >
> > Evidence, please.
Note: no response.
> > > The population of "Us" and "we" may be the same,
> >
> > Aren't you sure?
>
> It need not be the same.
I see you failed to answer the question. No surprise there.
> For example, Friday i was at at work, and "we" went to lunch. Now,
> i'm with a group of friends at a resterant, and the waiter
> is bringing "us" our dinners.
Typical inappropriate analogy. By the same reasoning, "square" is not equal
to "square" because you can be referring to two different squares each time.
> > > but they are not 100% equatable.
> >
> > On what basis do you make this claim?
>
> statement of fact.
Yet another example of your pontification.
> > > "we" denotes that the group is in the subject of a sentence, where
> > > as "us" is the objective case of "we".
> > >
> > > Subjective case is not fully equal to the objective case.
> >
> > I see you are resorting to a semantic argument since your logical
> > argument has run dry. No surprise there.
Note: no response.
> > > All you can state is that the "Population of We" = "Population of Us".
> >
> > Incorrect. Witness the fact that I have stated more than this fact.
Note: no response.
> > > Their location/position, however, differs.
> >
> > Take that up with Christopher Smith, who said:
> > CS] We is us.
>
> It is not a 'semantic arguement'.
I never claimed it was. I did, however, claim it was a semantic argument, and
rightfully so.
> It only is a semantic arguement on your part if you wish to flush down
> normal usage as well as dictionary definitions.
Where have I expressed a wish to do such a thing?
> "US" is not inherently identical in nature to "We", and at least when used
> in the english language, they denote different attributes.
You have yet to present a compelling case showing this. Meanwhile, I see you
have failed to take the point up with Christopher Smith. No surprise there.
------------------------------
From: "Peter T. Breuer" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Crossposted-To: comp.os.linux.misc
Subject: Re: how to enter a bug report against linux?
Date: 30 May 2000 13:18:24 GMT
In comp.os.linux.misc lop@l wrote:
: In article <8gub3a$qur$[EMAIL PROTECTED]>, [EMAIL PROTECTED]
: says...
:
:>As a result, a *lot* more coding gets done. Sometimes the resulting code
:>is crap --- so what, scrap it, redo it from scratch, with what you have
:>learned from the mistakes you made the first time around. You can do
:>that four times, and *still* get the good version before the person who
:>does 15/85.
:>
: One can eliminate many unneccessary code iterations by spending more
: time in the analysis and design stage.
But why should one wish to do this, given virtually unlimited coding
resources, as the linux kernel has available? The linux kernel is coded
in parallel. Code snippets compete for the attention of Linus in order
to make it into the kernel. Linus sets the barriers and the little
snippets try and get through them. Linus also sets up biases in the
evolutionary processes, by stating for example, what the broad traits
are that he will accept patches for, or by deliberately unbalancing and
maiming parts of the kernel so that patches have to come in to set it
right.
Peter
------------------------------
From: Marty <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Crossposted-To:
comp.sys.mac.advocacy,comp.os.os2.advocacy,comp.os.ms-windows.nt.advocacy
Subject: Re: Goodwin's Law invoked - Thread now dead
Date: Tue, 30 May 2000 13:30:23 GMT
Jim wrote:
>
> In article <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>, Marty <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> wrote:
>
> > WickedDyno wrote:
> > >
> > > In article <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>, Marty <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> > > wrote:
> > >
> > > >WickedDyno wrote:
> > > >>
> > > >> In article <8go49c$13k$[EMAIL PROTECTED]>, "Paul 'Z' Ewande "
> > > >> <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> > > >>
> > > >> >WickedDyno <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> a écrit dans le
> > > >> >message
> > > >> >:
> > > >> >[EMAIL PROTECTED]
> > > >> >> In article
> > > >> >> <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>,
> > > >> >> Eric Bennett <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> > > >> >>
> > > >> >> >In article <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>, Marty
> > > >> >> ><[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> > > >> >> >
> > > >> >> >
> > > >> >> >> > Spelling Camp. ;)
> > > >> >> >>
> > > >> >> >> How ironic, coming from the person who recently wrote:
> > > >> >> >> "Now it's time for Microsoft to puck blood."
> > > >> >> >
> > > >> >> >"puck blood" is a comp.sys.mac.advocacy inside joke.
> > > >> >>
> > > >> >> Posting for entertainment purposes again, Eric? I wonder
> > > >> >> what Cornell would think of this use of their network resources?
> > > >> >>
> > > >> >> > He spelled it correctly.
> > > >> >>
> > > >> >> Prove it, if you think you can.
> > > >> >
> > > >> >Don't you know ?
> > > >>
> > > >> Of course not, as it has yet to be proven.
> > > >
> > > >Now this is where you separate the professional Tholen emulators
> > > >from the rest. A real Tholen emulator would never admit to not
> > > >knowing something under any circumstances. Do try to keep up, WickedDyno.
> > >
> > > Hmm...
> >
> > Do make up your mind, WickedDyno.
> >
> > > I guess I ought to have gone with a simple Irrelevant.
> >
> > What you guess you ought to have gone with is irrelevant. What you
> > can prove is relevant.
>
> I got ur prove rite ear watter boy.
Having attribution problems, Jim?
> Mac users puck n suck.
Evidence, please.
> ther outta luck
Luck is irrelevant.
> mostly jump aroun inmuck
What is "inmuck"?
> canteven get it on in truk
Why would they want to?
> Woohahahahaha!
Posting for entertainment purposes?
> No New Song
Non sequitur.
> Singitpoor, India
Incorrect.
------------------------------
From: budgie <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Crossposted-To: alt.lang.basic,alt.destroy.microsoft
Subject: Re: QB 4.5 in Win 2000
Reply-To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Date: Tue, 30 May 2000 13:37:00 GMT
On Mon, 29 May 2000 23:45:02 -0400, T. Max Devlin <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
wrote:
>Quoting budgie from alt.destroy.microsoft; Tue, 30 May 2000 01:20:58 GMT
>>Prior to entering the PC-owner arena, I purchased an eight-bit
>>machine. This purchase came after about six months of deliberation.
>>I set out to NOT buy a C64 quite consciously. In the end that is what
>>I bought because it had market share.
>
>It had market share because it was a superior platform.
If you believe that then there is little hope for you and less hope
for this discussion. The Z80 based machinery was far superior
technically but lacked market share for the reasons stated. The only
area where the c64 was a superior platform was in the integrated
video/sound chips' capability. For general I/O it left an enormous
amount to be desired.
> We assume this
>to be true because there was active competition in the market.
Oversimplificatuion not substantiated by anything but your opinion.
>The guy
>down the hall from me had an Atari (2600?), and it had a mouse and a GUI
>and everything. And nowhere near the raw performance of the C64. When
>you are playing games or loading apps from a 360K 5-1/4" floppy (well,
>his had a 3.5", it's best feature, IMHO), raw performance has a meaning
>incomprehensible to people who have supercomputers on their desk and
>don't even know it.
And to cap off its scintillating performance, the C64 had the slowest
disk drive on mother earth. (sorry, stolen from a C64 mag of the day)
------------------------------
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (John Poltorak)
Crossposted-To: comp.os.ms-windows.nt.advocacy,comp.os.os2.advocacy
Subject: Re: You all BAFFLE ME! CANT YOU READ?!?!?! (Was OS/2 isnt dead... I just
forgot to say Thank You to IBM...)
Date: 30 May 2000 13:36:47 GMT
Reply-To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (John Poltorak)
In <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>, "Dolly" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
writes:
>Oh - and if you missed the request for beta testers for Warp CLIENT v5, too
>bad.
Erm....
You can't just trot out an off the cuff remark like that without opening
yourself to ridicule, and lack of credibility.
I missed it, and I expect every other OS/2 user missed it.
I regularly look through all the newsgroups, subscribe to half
a dozen OS/2 mailing lists, scour Warpcast, OS2BBS, OS2.ORG
for news on a daily basis. I subscribe to DevCon and Software
Choice and was on the Aurora beta test program, and look for
anything which could be interpreted as a hint that IBM is
planning a new version. Past experience has shown that they
always signal the arrival of a new client well in advance of
the Service End Date. In this instance the Service End Date has
already been announced but no follow on product has been
alluded to, leaving long time OS/2 users such as myself to draw
the only logical conclusion that there will be no further revisions
of OS/2.
>There might be another request... though (as of now), there is only supposed
>to be one beta test period.
Your credibility is on the line here...
>Doesnt anyone ever read anymore instead of just whine?
Where could anyone read about this request for beta testers of a
Warp CLIENT v5?
>
>Dolly
--
John
------------------------------
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (abraxas)
Crossposted-To: comp.os.ms-windows.advocacy,comp.os.ms-windows.nt.advocacy
Subject: Re: The Mainframe VS the PC.
Date: 30 May 2000 13:59:56 GMT
In comp.os.linux.advocacy Pete Goodwin <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> [EMAIL PROTECTED] (Charlie Ebert) wrote in <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>:
>>Originally the PC was cheaper thanks to Microsoft!
>>
>>Now the PC is more expensive, again thanks to Microsoft!
>>
>>You can by an AS 400 or HP 9000 of Dec VAX for under $100,000
>>and it will service 500 people!
>>
>>You can't buy the servers under a W2K environment for that!
> Why do it that way? The old massive central server and lite workstations
> instead of powerful PC and lite servers!
> What are people going to use as terminals? X terminals?
You're right...Terminal Server and Terminal Server Client [?] is
much more innovative. Ahem.
You dont know what the fuck youre talking about.
=====yttrx
------------------------------
From: T. Max Devlin <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Crossposted-To: alt.destroy.microsoft,alt.lang.basic
Subject: Re: QB 4.5 in Win 2000
Date: Tue, 30 May 2000 10:09:04 -0400
Reply-To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Quoting Giuliano Colla from alt.destroy.microsoft; Tue, 30 May 2000
12:51:58 +0200
>"T. Max Devlin" wrote:
[...]
>> Its time to get tough about privacy rights. Maintaining information on
>> me is *not* part of someone else's civil rights. Its part of my
>> property rights. What do you think? Too radical, or just unworkable?
>
>Currently, the Privacy Act effective in Italy (they claim to
>be one of the most advanced in the world, but I have no
>elements to compare), makes it mandatory to anyone having
>your personal data (address, date of birth and similar
>things) to inform you, and not to use them for any purpose
>different from the one they were originally given, unless
>you give explicit authorization. You may also ask them to
>destroy your data. This overrides any previous agreement. If
>not detaining your data makes it impossible to perform some
>activity, then the activity is canceled. I.e. you may ask
>your credit card company to remove your data from their data
>base, they are forced to do it, but most likely they will
>ask you to handle back the card.
>There are much more stringent requirements about your
>"sensitive data", like political or religious affiliation,
>health information etc.
>It appears that this more or less gives practical actuation
>to your suggestions.
>It's sometimes cumbersome, but it seems to work, and people
>are getting used to it.
>Sometimes they even try to abuse of it. I was reading
>recently of a guy who was fined for littering the street,
>and claimed that examining the litter in order to identify
>him had violated the Privacy Act!
Yes, this is along the lines I was suggesting. I was thinking more from
an intellectual property angle, though. "Privacy rights" are
notoriously dicey in the U.S., I think. By any reason, being as we're
so libertarian-oriented ("rugged individualists" and all) we should have
the most explicit privacy protections. But the same "you're own your
own" mentality prevents anything from being *written down*. The issue
of privacy is not mentioned once in the Constitution (only freedom from
unlawful search in a persons home "and effects", I think) yet it also
often referenced as one of our fundamental rights, along with the right
to free speech and freedom from (of) religion.
It stands to reason, also, particularly given the modern interpretation
of copyright, that any thought you have in your head, once committed to
paper or invention, is your private intellectual property. Nobody else
is allowed to make money in the same way you thought up (and
documented), even if you aren't making any money from it.
Some of the screwier parts of IP are, well, screwey. But worth
examining, I guess.
If someone finds a cure for AIDs in your blood, do they owe you
anything?
--
T. Max Devlin
Manager of Research & Educational Services
Managed Services
ELTRAX Technology Services Group
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
-[Opinions expressed are my own; everyone else, including
my employer, has to pay for them, subject to
applicable licensing agreement]-
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