Linux-Advocacy Digest #6, Volume #27 Sat, 10 Jun 00 08:13:04 EDT
Contents:
Re: Innovation (xandi)
Re: Microsoft migrates Hotmail to W2K (Full Name)
Please Help on my Final Year Project ("Alan Po")
Re: Innovation (Matthias Warkus)
Re: Would a M$ Voluntary Split Save It? ("Daniel Johnson")
Re: Linux faster than Windows? (Gary Hallock)
Re: Innovation (Mark S. Bilk)
Re: Canada invites Microsoft north (G. Wayne Hines)
Re: Canada invites Microsoft north (G. Wayne Hines)
Re: Canada invites Microsoft north (Bob Germer)
Re: Haakmat digest, volume 2451706 (Pascal Haakmat)
----------------------------------------------------------------------------
Date: Sat, 10 Jun 2000 12:33:15 +0200
From: xandi <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Crossposted-To: alt.os.linux
Subject: Re: Innovation
"Mark S. Bilk" wrote:
> Wow, this looks great! It's actually based on the Cyberspace
> VR concept in William Gibson's books -- _Neuromancer_, etc.
>
> I can't wait to feel that lethal surge of voltage in my brain
> electrodes when I hit a wall of Black ICE!
be cautious with what you say! This could be quite lethal, especially
when the black ice is out to kill you :)
anyway, until we reach such a stage there will be much to do; so i
outrageous exploit this threat to cry for help:
We need coders and artist!
So if you would like to help the 3Dsia project to create what Gibson
described in his books, please drop me a mail :)
bye
xandi
--
[EMAIL PROTECTED] - Alexander Feder - Vienna/Austria
personal: http://members.blackbox.net/xandi/
project: http://www.3Dsia.org
------------------------------
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (Full Name)
Crossposted-To: comp.os.ms-windows.nt.advocacy
Subject: Re: Microsoft migrates Hotmail to W2K
Date: Sat, 10 Jun 2000 10:36:52 GMT
Reply-To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
On 5 Jun 2000 18:08:48 GMT, Andres Soolo <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>Umm, you're claiming that a system might be C2-secure if it's running
>on a PC with known bugging devices attached?
>
You're an idiot.
The only difference is that a lot more people now know your an idiot.
------------------------------
From: "Alan Po" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Crossposted-To:
comp.os.linux.development,comp.os.linux.development.system,comp.os.linux.hardware,comp.os.linux.help,comp.os.linux.networking,comp.os.linux.questions
Subject: Please Help on my Final Year Project
Date: Sat, 10 Jun 2000 18:37:22 +0800
Dear All
I am a University Student in Hong Kong. I have choosen to develop an
Embedded Linux Environment for Industrial as my Final Year Project. My
Lecturer suggest me that my first step is to use a linux to control a Web
Camera first. However, in Hong Kong, almost all Web Camera only support USB
(Windows 98 or iMac). In my plan, I also find that if the USB Hardware
Interface may be more useful and meaningful because USB is PnP and it is
easy to find in the market (also the industrial). However, as I know, Linux
does not support USB.
Can anyone tell any USB development plan on Linux? Where can I get more
solutions or hints on USB for Linux? Thanks and welcome for any help and
suggestion on my project. Thanks a lot.
Alan Po
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
------------------------------
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (Matthias Warkus)
Crossposted-To: alt.os.linux
Subject: Re: Innovation
Date: Fri, 9 Jun 2000 18:36:32 +0200
Reply-To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
It was the 9 Jun 2000 13:23:47 GMT...
...and Mark S. Bilk <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
[visualising file systems in 3D]
> Wow, this looks great! It's actually based on the Cyberspace
> VR concept in William Gibson's books -- _Neuromancer_, etc.
Yeah, great. Yawn. Does having to *run* after your files instead of
having them all just a click of the mouse away actually give you any
increased productivity?
mawa
--
A lad of the brainier kind
Had erogenous zones in his mind.
He got his sensations,
By solving equations,
(Of course, in the end, he went blind.)
------------------------------
From: "Daniel Johnson" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Crossposted-To:
comp.os.os2.advocacy,comp.os.ms-windows.nt.advocacy,comp.sys.mac.advocacy
Subject: Re: Would a M$ Voluntary Split Save It?
Date: Sat, 10 Jun 2000 11:10:55 GMT
"Leslie Mikesell" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote in message
news:8hsq6l$h93$[EMAIL PROTECTED]...
> In article <onf05.2678$[EMAIL PROTECTED]>,
> Daniel Johnson <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>
> >> Seriously, some of their compatibility efforts are so badly executed
that
> >> you have to wonder about Microsoft's intent in creating them in the
first
> >> place.
> >
> >I haven't had a problem with them.
>
> How much have you used them?
It's been awhile since I had to use them much. Occasional access
to old WordPerfect documents is pretty much it these days.
Back when I had to support SCO Unix systems, I had to use it more,
and it worked fine. That was a few years ago, now, though.
[snip]
> >Well, I ask you how many *other* server OSes even go this far: how many
> >support Apple's protocols at all?
>
> Most. There is an add-on for Netware. There are 2 free packages
> for unix, CAP and netatalk, and probably commercial versions.
So none of them provide support, but you can get it as an add on.
[snip]
> >If they are using VT100s, they are going to conclude that *anyway*.
>
> No, only if it is done wrong.
You've no idea how much vt100s suck, I think. :D
Seriously, his probably is qutie likely that he needs
vt102 or vt220 emulation and hasn't got it.
> >I've used Window's telnet. It's pretty limited, but it is servicable.
>
> No, it is horrible. It doesn't notify the remote end on
> window resizing and handles some of the cursor postitioning
> wrong.
It's just a vt52/vt100 emulator. It's not X-Windows. It's not even
a vt102 emulator.
The VT100 has a fixed sized screen. There's no way to say
"oh, my screen just got bigger.".
> >No. If interoperability allows people to switch to the monopolies
> >product. That is why MS is so gung ho about it.
>
> They are gung ho about non-interoperability the other way.
You say it, but it ain't so. MS provides lots of interoperability support
with the product.
> >Far, far better to head for new, untapped areas. Get innovative; come up
> >with something new. That's where the real money is, *and* where the
> >real excitement is.
>
> Sure - we are going to see a bunch of 'appliance' boxes like
> the TIVO where there the thing does one job and needs next
> to no user interface. These are almost certainly going to
> built on top of a free unix system or maybe even java.
Maybe so.
> >What possible inducement could there be for a creative, driven,
> >ambitious individual to want to build a better Windows?
>
> To have somethin that is not so painful to make interoperate
> with anything else. But WINE may take care of that soon.
Well, I submit that the sort of people who could build a better
Windows will also realize that outdoing MS's already strong
interoperability would be quite difficult- and likely quite
unrewarding.
Unrewarding? I hear you cry. Yeppers. Let me explain.
Interoperability is a fine and a useful thing, but you don't
buy computers for it- it's something you use to cope with
the problems of mixing systems. It's almost always better
not to have those problems, so most will favor using
the same software throughout their organization *regardless*
of how good your interoperability gets.
Further, it's unsexy- they don't give out "Interoperator Of The Year
Awards" in PC magazine exactly.
And of course, there will be those who refuse to acknowledge
that they've done it at all, because they feel the word interoperability
means "works just like Unix". :D
> >> It's hardly surprising that people don't favor variety in their OSes
> >> considering that a part of the Microsoft strategy is to penalize such
> >> variety ("decommoditization").
> >
> >Do you know what a "commodity" is?
>
> Things like televisions, DVD players, VCR's, camcorders, PC compatible
> computers.
No. It is things like oil. Oil is more or less just oil. You can give
it an octane rating, true, but my 100 octane oil is not merely
'just as good as' yours- it's exactly the same thing.
> >It isn't noted for variety.
>
> No, they may be very different in their implementation, yet
> they follow standards that allow them to be interchanged
> and still work.
That limits variety. Think about why HDTV can't adhere to the
NTSC standard.
> >"Commoditization" is when a class of product becomes essentially
> >indistinguishable, so that the only differentating factor is price.
>
> Really? Is the PC hardware you would buy today indistinguishable
> from one from a few years ago?
PC hardware is not really a commodity, but it *is* approaching it- far
more so than hardware does.
Nevertheless, there are for instance expensive 'high end' systems with
way more features than the next system.
This is in large part possible because the standard operating system
they use supports it, of course. If anything MS has acted as a force
to (if you like) 'de-commoditize' PC hardware.
> >"Decommoditization" favors variety; MS wants to be different
> >from the next guy, so you'll want their software instead of
> >his.
>
> No, they want to take advantage of making it difficult to
> work with anything else. They have the customer base and
> use it to annoy everyone else.
This just isn't what Microsoft does. Nor is it what they proposed
to do in the 'Halloween' memos.
> >I don't either. MS is quite ruthless. But the *source* of this power is
> >MS's ability to woo customers (and developers) to Windows; only
> >once this is accomplished can threatening to withhold Windows
> >work.
> >
> >And after it is done, the rest is just a formality- Windows has won.
>
> Yes, they have a monopoly. No one is arguing about that.
We are arguing about how they got this 'monopoly'.
You brought out the strange notion that they got it by
leveraging their monopoly.
I think this is taking the "MS has they got through leveraging
their monopoly" line just a shade too far.
> >MS fixed this, eventually. It was, potentially, an opportunity for
someone
> >to come out with a better OS for games and sell it into the home
> >market- gawd knows DOS wasn't exactly good at them- but nobody
> >tried it. Perhaps 4 years (91-95) wasn't enough?
>
> Is it really fixed? My kids have been installing games and I think
> we've been through 4 different versions of DirectX overwriting
> each other in the last couple of days, and at least one of
> the games runs a few minutes then crashes.
Well, it's a lot better than it *was*, but as you observe MS has had
a pretty rough time in this area.
If you think they still aren't where they need to be, maybe you
should write LeslieOS, an OS for home users that is long on
game support.
> >I think there *is* a market for a non MS OS that products like
> >Linux can fill; I just don't think it's the same market Windows 98
> >is filling.
>
> It may not good at being a kid's toy - but then Win98 isn't
> doing that well here either.
Oh, I don't know. Win98 is doing better; lots of games *are*
being written for it, and this wasn't so with Win3.
> >> Current software engineering practices cannot deliver (say)
> >> an .AVI, .MOV or DVD player for (say) Linux?
> >
> >Maybe.
> >
> >Linux is not exactly a really media friendly sort of OS, when
> >you get right down to it. I'm not saying it's impossible, but
> >certainly it is a challenge.
>
> Funny, the TIVO is built on Linux and it records/plays back
> video just fine.
Well, I'm not saying it's impossible.
> Maybe what you are trying to say is that there
> is some conflict between patented and trade secret device
> driver hardware and driver and the open source world.
"device driver hardware"?
> >And there's only so much talent out there to meet that
> >and many, many other challenges.
>
> Microsoft may have a lot of developers, but nowhere near
> the number contributing to open source projects.
I wonder. Has anyone worked out how many *contributors* there
are to Linux, or to the GNU tools, or whatnot? As opposed to
users or people who submit bug reports but not bug fixes.
> >> This is the second time you're confusing "magic" and "power".
> >
> >Forgive me, but I think you have confused them. You are saying
> >that Microsoft's "power"- whatever that was before Windows took
> >off- just suddenly *caused* Windows to succeed without so much
> >as a mechanism.
> >
> >Sure seems like magic.
>
> It is entirely because Windows would drop into an existing
> DOS/Netware system painlessly, whether on existing boxes
> or new ones, and now they have made sure that a change
> to any other system will be painful.
My point, sir, is that Windows would *not* do this painlessly;
you had to dump a load of cash on new software and sometimes
hardware upgrades. Your new apps had new file formats.
You can say "MS owned DOS so they could make it painless";
but it is a historical fact that they did not. The problems in upgrading
to Windows were essentially the same as upgrading to any other
OS for the Intel hardware: new software, new file formats, and
some new hardware.
> >They were not able to. They lacked the power to make developers swtich
> >suddenly. They had to try to lure them over, and they ahd mixed success.
> >They were a *long* time wooing the game developers, in particular.
>
> But it didn't matter - if you are playing games on the computer
> you can reboot it into DOS.
That is a pain, and DOS has crappy support for games too- just not
completely intolerable support.
They were open to somebody moving in on the home-computer
market for years because of this, in my view.
------------------------------
Date: Sat, 10 Jun 2000 07:19:21 -0400
From: Gary Hallock <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: Re: Linux faster than Windows?
Pete Goodwin wrote:
> Was that with or without the disk I/O?
>
With disk I/O of course.
>
> One of the claims made here was the Linux file system is so much better
> than Windows - yet this test reveals they're about the same.
>
You're test is entirely limited by the physical disk. There is a lot more
to a file system than sequentially writing records to a file. For example,
how well you can overlap other processing with the file I/O. Then there are
random reads and writes. Doing I/O from multiple processes. How long it
takes to open and close files. Scanning directories. Reading or writing
lots of little files. I'm not saying Linux is any better than Windows for
file I/O. I don't know. But your test reveals nothing.
>
> Incidentally, I saw the same system slowdown on Windows 98 SE as I did on
> Linux.
>
> Pete
Why didn't you mention this in your original post? You made it sound like
Linux was at fault and that Windows did not have this problem.
Gary
------------------------------
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (Mark S. Bilk)
Crossposted-To: alt.os.linux
Subject: Re: Innovation
Date: 10 Jun 2000 11:25:52 GMT
In article <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>,
Matthias Warkus <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>It was the 9 Jun 2000 13:23:47 GMT...
>...and Mark S. Bilk <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>[visualising file systems in 3D]
>> Wow, this looks great! It's actually based on the Cyberspace
>> VR concept in William Gibson's books -- _Neuromancer_, etc.
>
>Yeah, great. Yawn. Does having to *run* after your files instead of
>having them all just a click of the mouse away actually give you any
>increased productivity?
No, man, you just *fly* after them!
And when you go through a fiber-optic cable it's all sparkly!
--
Actually, I want to reach VR.5 and merge with Lori Singer...
------------------------------
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (G. Wayne Hines)
Crossposted-To:
comp.os.os2.advocacy,comp.os.ms-windows.nt.advocacy,comp.sys.mac.advocacy
Subject: Re: Canada invites Microsoft north
Date: Sat, 10 Jun 2000 11:30:39 GMT
In an earlier episode, Bob Germer <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
wrote:
> On 06/05/2000 at 09:23 AM,
> John Wiltshire <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> said:
>
> > Sounds like the US pays doctors better so the doctors move south.
> > Doesn't sound like a Canadian problem, but a demand for doctors in the
> > US.
>
> No, John, it is all about freedom from Government interference. In Canada,
> the government regulates the income of physicians. The US does not. In
In this province, the government (provincial health department)
negotiates a fee structure with the association that represents
the doctors. The individual doctors then bill the government for
providing the services to patients. The more patients a doctor
sees, the higher his/her income is.
> Canada, the government determines where and when a person can get care.
Local or regional health boards determine what equipment and
services are available at individual hospitals and/or health
centers. This determines where some people can receive certain
services. Some specialists are available only in certain towns
or cities, which also determines where people can receive
services. A number of factors determine when a person can get
care...how busy the doctor(s) are, vacations, etc.
I recently had minor elective surgery. I chose to have that
surgery in Kentville. I could have chosen to have it at any
hospital in the province that provided that service. When my
family doctor and I decided to go ahead with the surgery, I made
an appointment with the specialist. That was about a week later.
3 days after the appointment with the specialist,, I had the
surgery. I had a choice of dates for that surgery.
> The US does not. In Canada, the goverment takes a much bigger bite out of
> income via taxation than in the US.
You got that right. :-(
gwh
# [EMAIL PROTECTED] G. Wayne Hines #
# Team OS/2 Kentville, NS, Canada #
# I don't wanna work. I just want to ride on the train all day #
# http://www3.ns.sympatico.ca/w.d.hines/express.html #
------------------------------
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (G. Wayne Hines)
Crossposted-To:
comp.os.os2.advocacy,comp.os.ms-windows.nt.advocacy,comp.sys.mac.advocacy
Subject: Re: Canada invites Microsoft north
Date: Sat, 10 Jun 2000 11:30:40 GMT
In an earlier episode, [EMAIL PROTECTED]@lava.net wrote:
>
> Saskatoon has an international airport now! Wow!
Hey, so does Yarmouth, Nova Scotia.
gwh
# [EMAIL PROTECTED] G. Wayne Hines #
# Team OS/2 Kentville, NS, Canada #
# I don't wanna work. I just want to ride on the train all day #
# http://www3.ns.sympatico.ca/w.d.hines/express.html #
------------------------------
Crossposted-To:
comp.os.os2.advocacy,comp.os.ms-windows.nt.advocacy,comp.sys.mac.advocacy
From: Bob Germer <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: Re: Canada invites Microsoft north
Date: Sat, 10 Jun 2000 12:00:38 GMT
On 06/10/2000 at 11:30 AM,
[EMAIL PROTECTED] (G. Wayne Hines) said:
> In an earlier episode, [EMAIL PROTECTED]@lava.net wrote:
> >
> > Saskatoon has an international airport now! Wow!
> Hey, so does Yarmouth, Nova Scotia.
IIRC, there is also one on Cape Breton Island as well.
--
==============================================================================================
Bob Germer from Mount Holly, NJ - E-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Proudly running OS/2 Warp 4.0 w/ FixPack 12
MR/2 Ice 2.19zf Registration Number 67
=============================================================================================
------------------------------
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (Pascal Haakmat)
Crossposted-To:
comp.sys.mac.advocacy,comp.os.os2.advocacy,comp.os.ms-windows.nt.advocacy,nl.scouting
Subject: Re: Haakmat digest, volume 2451706
Date: 10 Jun 2000 12:05:13 GMT
Reply-To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
>> Are you going to answer my question?
>
>Would it do any good?
Why do you think I asked?
--
Rate your CSMA savvy by identifying the writing styles of
ancient and recent, transient and perdurable CSMA inhabitants:
(35 posters, 259 quotes)
<http://awacs.dhs.org/csmatest>
------------------------------
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End of Linux-Advocacy Digest
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