Linux-Advocacy Digest #6, Volume #29 Fri, 8 Sep 00 17:13:08 EDT
Contents:
Re: How low can they go...? ("Simon Cooke")
Re: How low can they go...? ("Simon Cooke")
Re: Computer and memory ("Quantum Leaper")
Re: How low can they go...? (Roberto Alsina)
Re: How low can they go...? ("Simon Cooke")
Re: Computer and memory (Roberto Alsina)
Re: philosophy is better than science ([EMAIL PROTECTED])
Re: Sun cannot use Java for their servers!! (lyttlec)
Re: Inferior Engineering of the Win32 Platform (IE for Linux) ("Ingemar Lundin")
Re: End-User Alternative to Windows
Re: How low can they go...?
Re: How low can they go...?
----------------------------------------------------------------------------
From: "Simon Cooke" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Crossposted-To:
comp.lang.java.advocacy,comp.os.ms-windows.advocacy,comp.os.ms-windows.nt.advocacy
Subject: Re: How low can they go...?
Date: Fri, 8 Sep 2000 13:35:38 -0700
"T. Max Devlin" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote in message
news:[EMAIL PROTECTED]...
> Said [EMAIL PROTECTED] () in comp.os.linux.advocacy;
> [...]
> > Winhelp may be many things, but a notoriously bloated and
> > crashprone piece of crap it was not. It's still not obvious
> > that there is infact a point in dumping it.
>
> To provide an excuse to integrate the web browser, obviously.
I'd like to see HTMLHelp crash... anyone able to provide me with a way of
doing this? Because I sure as hell haven't seen it crash yet.
Simon
------------------------------
From: "Simon Cooke" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Crossposted-To:
comp.lang.java.advocacy,comp.os.ms-windows.advocacy,comp.os.ms-windows.nt.advocacy
Subject: Re: How low can they go...?
Date: Fri, 8 Sep 2000 13:34:58 -0700
"T. Max Devlin" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote in message
news:[EMAIL PROTECTED]...
> Said Simon Cooke in comp.os.linux.advocacy;
> ><[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote in message
> >
> >> Yes, it was a perfect pretext to help in their neferious acitvities of
> >tying
> >> non-OS services into the OS and thereby further locking in customer.
> >
> >Who are you to decide what belongs in an *APPLICATIONS PLATFORM* and what
> >doesn't?
>
> The customer.
Which in the case of an OS is the end-user, the developers, the OEMs,
companies in partnership with Microsoft, and Microsoft itself.
Simon
------------------------------
From: "Quantum Leaper" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Crossposted-To: comp.os.ms-windows.advocacy,comp.os.ms-windows.nt.advocacy
Subject: Re: Computer and memory
Date: Fri, 08 Sep 2000 20:40:13 GMT
"Roberto Alsina" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote in message
news:[EMAIL PROTECTED]...
> Quantum Leaper escribió:
> >
> > "Chris Street - remove antispam in email"
> > <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote in message
> > news:[EMAIL PROTECTED]...
> > > On Fri, 08 Sep 2000 13:18:16 GMT, "Chad Myers"
> > > <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> > >
> > > >
> > > >"Chris Street - remove antispam in email"
> > > ><[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote in message
> > > >news:[EMAIL PROTECTED]...
> > > >>
> > > >> I think you will find most of the native americans were wiped out
in
> > > >> the 19th century. That's after the the declaration of independance
> > > >> that treats all except Indians and black slaves equally.
> > > >
> > > >What about the entire Aztec, Mayan, and Inca populations? Or do they
> > > >not count as native americans?
> > > >
> > > >The French, Brits, and Spanards killed more than there fair share of
> > > >Indians.
> > > >
> > > >The American's campaign to rid itself of the N.A.s was simply a
cleanup
> > > >effort, the damage had already been wraught by the French, Spanish,
and
> > > >British.
> > > >
> > > >-Chad
> > > >
> > > >
> > >
> > > Go read some books. When you have a better idea about history you can
> > > spout more knowledgably.
> > >
> > Maybe both of you should read about history.
> >
> > > Up until the Lousiania purchase, the settlers had co-existed with the
> > > native americans quite happily. Only then when Americas expansionistic
> > > ambitions grew did there come a pressure on the land which resulted in
> > > large numbers of deaths.
> > >
> > The USA is less then a 1/3 of all of Americas. European diseases killed
> > many more than the gun ever did over the years.
> >
> > > I didn't deal with the Southern American native as I assumed that you
> > > would only be limiting discussions to those in the area covered by the
> > > USA.
> >
> > When you do that you ignore what the Spanish and others did to the
native
> > americans. Basicly this is about European vs. USA did to the native
> > population in the americas.
>
> Well, in Mexico, the percentage of the population with native
> ancestors is way higher than in the US, and probably 10 times
> more than the population before the conquest, so it doesn't look
> like much of an extermination to me.
>
I never said it was extermination, I said diseases wiped out alot of
natives, many more than the gun ever did....
> In places like Guatemala, the native population is something like
> 90%.
>
When did they open there door to the European immigrants, like the USA?
The 20th century alot of European came to the USA.
------------------------------
From: Roberto Alsina <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Crossposted-To:
comp.lang.java.advocacy,comp.os.ms-windows.advocacy,comp.os.ms-windows.nt.advocacy
Subject: Re: How low can they go...?
Date: Fri, 08 Sep 2000 17:48:48 -0300
[EMAIL PROTECTED] escribió:
>
> T. Max Devlin <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote in message
> news:[EMAIL PROTECTED]...
> > Said [EMAIL PROTECTED] () in comp.os.linux.advocacy;
> > [...]
> > > Winhelp may be many things, but a notoriously bloated and
> > > crashprone piece of crap it was not. It's still not obvious
> > > that there is infact a point in dumping it.
> >
> > To provide an excuse to integrate the web browser, obviously.
>
> Jedi is correct here, the was no viable reason to dump winhelp fromm an
> engineering point of view.
>
> Max is also correct, it was done that way it was done as a monopolist
> tactic.
Well, one could argue that this way only one hypertext-and-style
widget needed to be developed, and that it is simpler to create
HTML help than winhelp files, though.
--
Roberto Alsina
------------------------------
From: "Simon Cooke" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Crossposted-To:
comp.lang.java.advocacy,comp.os.ms-windows.advocacy,comp.os.ms-windows.nt.advocacy
Subject: Re: How low can they go...?
Date: Fri, 8 Sep 2000 13:40:04 -0700
"T. Max Devlin" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote in message
news:[EMAIL PROTECTED]...
> Ummm..... Perhaps you missed the "From:" line.... LOL (thanks for the
> compliment)
>
> Microsoft got an injunction preventing Microsoft from releasing or
> distributing any software that didn't have the Sun JVM in it; Sun
> recognized that they were allowed to 'monkey with' Java itself, and the
> contracts allowed for modifications as necessary to Java to make it work
> well on Windows. The licensing contracts allowed this, although Sun
> said in their complaint that MS had modified it in ways that could not
> be mistaken to be for efficiency and were purposefully done to decrease
> intercompatibility. The main thing Microsoft did, though, is not
> include Sun's JVM (which would provide perfect compatibility, at loss of
> efficiency and limited support, to cross-platform Java).
Sorry, but that's complete bullshit. There was never a requirement for MS to
ship Sun's JVM.
Simon
------------------------------
From: Roberto Alsina <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Crossposted-To: comp.os.ms-windows.advocacy,comp.os.ms-windows.nt.advocacy
Subject: Re: Computer and memory
Date: Fri, 08 Sep 2000 17:59:48 -0300
Quantum Leaper escribió:
>
> "Roberto Alsina" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote in message
> news:[EMAIL PROTECTED]...
> > Quantum Leaper escribió:
> > >
> > > "Chris Street - remove antispam in email"
> > > <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote in message
> > > news:[EMAIL PROTECTED]...
> > > > On Fri, 08 Sep 2000 13:18:16 GMT, "Chad Myers"
> > > > <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >"Chris Street - remove antispam in email"
> > > > ><[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote in message
> > > > >news:[EMAIL PROTECTED]...
> > > > >>
> > > > >> I think you will find most of the native americans were wiped out
> in
> > > > >> the 19th century. That's after the the declaration of independance
> > > > >> that treats all except Indians and black slaves equally.
> > > > >
> > > > >What about the entire Aztec, Mayan, and Inca populations? Or do they
> > > > >not count as native americans?
> > > > >
> > > > >The French, Brits, and Spanards killed more than there fair share of
> > > > >Indians.
> > > > >
> > > > >The American's campaign to rid itself of the N.A.s was simply a
> cleanup
> > > > >effort, the damage had already been wraught by the French, Spanish,
> and
> > > > >British.
> > > > >
> > > > >-Chad
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > >
> > > > Go read some books. When you have a better idea about history you can
> > > > spout more knowledgably.
> > > >
> > > Maybe both of you should read about history.
> > >
> > > > Up until the Lousiania purchase, the settlers had co-existed with the
> > > > native americans quite happily. Only then when Americas expansionistic
> > > > ambitions grew did there come a pressure on the land which resulted in
> > > > large numbers of deaths.
> > > >
> > > The USA is less then a 1/3 of all of Americas. European diseases killed
> > > many more than the gun ever did over the years.
> > >
> > > > I didn't deal with the Southern American native as I assumed that you
> > > > would only be limiting discussions to those in the area covered by the
> > > > USA.
> > >
> > > When you do that you ignore what the Spanish and others did to the
> native
> > > americans. Basicly this is about European vs. USA did to the native
> > > population in the americas.
> >
> > Well, in Mexico, the percentage of the population with native
> > ancestors is way higher than in the US, and probably 10 times
> > more than the population before the conquest, so it doesn't look
> > like much of an extermination to me.
> >
> I never said it was extermination, I said diseases wiped out alot of
> natives, many more than the gun ever did....
Ok. Sorry, looks like I just filled in something that was
not missing :-)
> > In places like Guatemala, the native population is something like
> > 90%.
> >
>
> When did they open there door to the European immigrants, like the USA?
> The 20th century alot of European came to the USA.
Guatemala? Around 1500 or so ;-)
--
Roberto Alsina
------------------------------
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Crossposted-To:
comp.infosystems.gis,comp.infosystems.www.advocacy,comp.os.ms-windows.advocacy,gnu.misc.discuss
Subject: Re: philosophy is better than science
Date: 8 Sep 2000 20:52:18 GMT
Reply-To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
[EMAIL PROTECTED] (Perry Pip) writes:
>[EMAIL PROTECTED] <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>>Class systems are not uniformly rigid.
>But the only class lines are only conceptual.
I disagree.
Would you agree that medieval England had a class system?
Yet people moved up under that system as well.
>If you say an uneven distribution of wealth means a class system,
No, I say a very uneven distribution of opportunity means a class system.
Being born to the bottom quintile (bottom 20%), esp. if you are in
the innercity or boondocks of rural America means your opportunity
to live a decent life (defined physically as consistantly working heating
and plumbing, adequite food and medical care) is greatly reduced.
Being born to the top 5% nearly guarentees a decent life if you aren't
a total moron.
>>>Our society (the U.S.) is one of the few that strives to give everyone
>>>the opportunity to acchieve their full pontential. The fact that many
>>>don't is their own doing,
>>Hey, I love the U.S., I wouldn't live anywhere else, but do try to get
>>some perspective.
>Hey, I never said the U.S. was perfect, or that it couldn't improve
>it's social policies. But put it in perspective yourself. Look at the
>rest of the world.
>Why are so many immigrants trying to get into the U.S??
Read the diaries from the 1800s, some of them actually thought the
streets were paved with gold.
>>And if their parent made mistakes when they were children and later
>>when they were young adults (or maybe they just aren't very bright)
[]
>Any one in the U.S. who get's a GED (even in prison)
in youth detention.
>can join the service
There have been times this has been true, and from what I hear now
may be one of them, but during the late 80s, to give an example,
this was not true. If the military can get High School diplomas
to fill its ranks they take 'em.
>and get usefull skills.
You really believe that? What kind of useful skills do you think
the people who are nicknamed "rocks with lips" (God bless them)
learn?
How applicable to civilian life do you think running an M1A1 is?
Not to say it is entirely useless. It probably gives them some
confidence and might encourage an employer to give them a chance
to learn whatever skills are actually needed for a job.
>I am all in favor of helping people in need, Morphus,
Just in case that wasn't a typo, my last name is "Morphis".
>provided they
>are willing to be helped. But alot people don't want to be helped, and
>others abuse the system. Why should I pay taxes for a 16 year old girl
>who *decides* to have a kid?
What do you suggest we do about the kid?
>What about all these lazy ass people
>claiming disability under the guise of "chronic fatigue syndrome"?
Ah, bigotry parading it's ignorance, ain't freedom of speech wunnerful.
(Hey, at least I got out my response without any explitives, that took
three tries)
Just in case you are interested in educating yourself:
http://www.cdc.gov/ncidod/diseases/cfs/cfshome.htm
http://www.umdnj.edu/cfsweb/CFS/
http://www.cfids.org
>>and are now working overtime to make it to the poverty level and keep
>>the family in some minimal physical comfort without depending too much
>>on handouts ... resulting in an inability to spend enough time with
>>their children,
>
>Why are they having children in the first place if they don't have
>money to care for them?? They should be working, saving money, going
>to night school etc. etc. ****before**** having children!!!!
Wonderful theory.
People make mistakes, should children be penalized for their parents
mistakes? Beyond that there is the fact that there are a significant
number of people in this world who simply aren't going to make much
more than the minimum wage in their life. They just don't have
what it takes, brainwise or otherwise.
It is exactly in those areas where children are least likly to have
parents who are able, due to skills or time restraints, to help them
achieve that the schools are also least likely to be able to offer
the help to make up for the difference.
So do we sterilize people? Starve their children? Take their children
away from them? Pay a decent minimum wage? Let kids have access to
long term, non-critical treatment of asthma and other illnesses so that
they don't miss school, so that they don't have to spend time waiting
in lines at emergency rooms and end up being admitted because they didn't
get the treatment when it would have been easy to deal with.
Instead of forcing 16 year old mothers to stay at home when they aren't
wanted there why not provide supervised living quarters where they can
learn parenting skills and get encouragement and help to stay in school?
Why not provide those same services to those young mothers who are staying
at home?
It can be done, and has been done fairly successfully, but because of
lack of money, because of a desire to "change welfare as we know it"
on the cheap, it isn't done nearly as widely as it could be done.
Something between where we are now and the Scandinavian countries
is where we should be aiming IMHO.
Robert
------------------------------
From: lyttlec <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Crossposted-To:
comp.lang.java.advocacy,comp.lang.java.programmer,comp.os.ms-windows.nt.advocacy
Subject: Re: Sun cannot use Java for their servers!!
Date: Fri, 08 Sep 2000 21:06:54 GMT
Zenin wrote:
>
> lyttlec <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> >snip<
> : Perhaps I misunderstood your point. I read "when the OS blows up, nobody
> : can hack your data". In fact the data can be hacked even if the OS has
> : blown up. The OS blowing up doesn't stop the machine from running. It can
> : still be setting there running right along. If there is no hardware damage
> : then hacking the data is easy. In fact, a networked NT machine may have
> : the "OS blown up" and still be hacked remotely as it may leave some
> : functions running that only use BIOS calls and can be remotely exploited.
>
> I'd be curious to know of a modern OS that used BIOS functions of
> any kind after the system has been initialized. AFAIK, NT has no
> reason to.
>
I didn't say the OS had to use the BIOS, just that something is running
that makes use of the BIOS. Whether NT uses the BIOS or not isn't
revelant. It does, but that is another thread. The BIOS is still there
and something that accesses it can still be running. NT does make it
difficult for naif users to use the BIOS, but has preserved the ability
to access BIOS for its "friends".
> : Also we are very lucky that script kiddies aren't smart enough to know how
> : to reprogram the flash BIOS in most of todays computers.
>
> You think they aren't? There are quite a number of viruses that
> exploit exactly this.
>
Luckly for us the run-of-the-mill script kiddie doesn't know enough to
do that. Those that do tend to be smart enough to be happy stealing a
few pennies from each of lots of bank accounts and don't want to attract
attention.
> Crackers can exploit nearly anything in very creative ways and have
> for ever. I remember an old ProDOS virus that wrote most its self
> *between* the tracks of the disk so it could not be detected by
> scanning any file.
>
MS still does that. They write data on tracks on your hard drive that
only MS is intended to be able to read. All hard drives have more tracks
and sectors than are indicated by standard tools. Most of these are
truly bad, but a clever hacker can find enough good ones to hide lots of
programs/data.
> : None of this means that the hardware would ever be usable for standard OS
> : installation again. But there are commercial companies that make a
> : profitable business of hacking data from systems with the OS blown up.
>
> Typically when an "OS blows up", it halts the processor. I'd be
> very interested to see any CERT advisory notices about such attacks.
> You wouldn't care to provide a URL, would you? Thanks.
>
Depends on how the OS blows up. You would want it to stop the processor,
but results are unpredictable. Some OS (or applictions running on them.
I will name no names) will blow up due to known bugs that leave not only
the processor running, but the application running also. When that
application happens to handle the network connection....
> --
> -Zenin ([EMAIL PROTECTED]) From The Blue Camel we learn:
> BSD: A psychoactive drug, popular in the 80s, probably developed at UC
> Berkeley or thereabouts. Similar in many ways to the prescription-only
> medication called "System V", but infinitely more useful. (Or, at least,
> more fun.) The full chemical name is "Berkeley Standard Distribution".
------------------------------
From: "Ingemar Lundin" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Crossposted-To: comp.sys.mac.advocacy,comp.os.ms-windows.advocacy,comp.unix.advocacy
Subject: Re: Inferior Engineering of the Win32 Platform (IE for Linux)
Date: Fri, 08 Sep 2000 21:10:08 GMT
Sorry! cant belive you...that is simply not possible
/IL
> Its far, far worse than 'nutscrape' on any platform.
>
>
>
>
> abbie
>
------------------------------
From: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Crossposted-To: alt.os.linux,comp.os.linux.misc
Subject: Re: End-User Alternative to Windows
Date: Fri, 8 Sep 2000 13:14:58 -0700
Reply-To: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
<[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote in message
news:[EMAIL PROTECTED]...
> On Fri, 8 Sep 2000 10:28:44 -0700, [EMAIL PROTECTED]
<[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> >
> >Tristan Wibberley <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote in message
> >news:G99u5.6898$[EMAIL PROTECTED]...
> >>
> >
> >> This has been done for power users (see Debian), but not yet (or
> >> not adequately) for end-users.
> >
> >"power users" ARE end-users.
> >
> >I think that "neophytes" is a better term for you misuse of the term
> >"end-user".
>
> There are also many end users that have no interest in ever
> being "power users". I really don't think that PC's of any
> kind suit them actually. However, they remain a large part
> of the market that thinks they "must be DOS compatible".
So permit me to restate:
The term "end-user" encompases all users as all levels of experience and
abilities. Neophyte or beginner are better terms if you are referring to
less capable users. Of couse it is possible that a neophyte may never
outgrow that catagory.
------------------------------
From: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Crossposted-To:
comp.lang.java.advocacy,comp.os.ms-windows.advocacy,comp.os.ms-windows.nt.advocacy
Subject: Re: How low can they go...?
Date: Fri, 8 Sep 2000 13:51:56 -0700
Reply-To: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Quantum Leaper <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote in message
news:h7bu5.19968$[EMAIL PROTECTED]...
>
> <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote in message
> news:8p9u92$o2m$[EMAIL PROTECTED]...
> >
> > Quantum Leaper <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote in message
> > news:COZt5.18110$[EMAIL PROTECTED]...
> > >
> > > I haven't seen any used 'Computer game' for quite awhile, though I do
> see
> > > alot of used console games.
> >
> > In this area there are three chain computer stores (it does appear as
> though
> > on is currently taking over another so we may soon have only two) that
> > specialize in computer games and also sell game consoles. They each
have
>
> What are the computers stores? Atleast in my area, NONE sell computer
> games, I have been to just about all of them in my area. Also I have
never
> seen any store in the Chicago area buy/sell used computer games, though
> alot of them sell console games. So it includes alot of the big computer
> chain stores, like Best Buy and others.
>
> > used computer games, sometimes boxed sometime with only CD in jewel
boxes.
> > They also have signs promoting the buy back of games. The new computer
> game
> > boxes come stickers with slogans like "played it? Trade it!" I for one
>
> I'm not saying they don't, I just wonder were they are, I still remember
> when a local computer store used to rent games.
The two surviving companies that I know of that are doing this are
Electronics Boutique and Babbage's
------------------------------
From: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Crossposted-To:
comp.lang.java.advocacy,comp.os.ms-windows.advocacy,comp.os.ms-windows.nt.advocacy
Subject: Re: How low can they go...?
Date: Fri, 8 Sep 2000 14:00:11 -0700
Reply-To: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Quantum Leaper <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote in message
news:Bcbu5.19970$[EMAIL PROTECTED]...
>
> USB support was useless unless your MB supported it.
If you have a motherboard supports USB, like mine on the workstation that I
built, what the? The version of Windows 95 I run on it is of course Windows
95 Retail. Short up having to purchase and install Window 98 or latter, I
have no USB support from Windows. For which I would have no other need for
Window 98.
> FAT32 support for free
> would have been nice, but you could buy a legal copy of OSR2 (FAT32) if
you
> bought a new HD.
I have bought harddrives in the last few years and have never been offered
or encountered an offer for the purchase of Windows 95 OSR2.
------------------------------
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