Linux-Advocacy Digest #52, Volume #27 Tue, 13 Jun 00 12:13:04 EDT
Contents:
Re: democracy? ([EMAIL PROTECTED])
Re: Open Source Programmers Demonstrate Incompetence (Craig Kelley)
Re: Linux faster than Windows? (Craig Kelley)
Re: G4 in space! (Alan Baker)
Re: democracy? ([EMAIL PROTECTED])
Re: Microsoft Stocks and your sanity... (Pete Goodwin)
Re: An Example of the Superiority of Windows vs Linux (Craig Kelley)
Re: democracy? ([EMAIL PROTECTED])
Re: democracy? ([EMAIL PROTECTED])
Re: iMac: the iFormation Appliance (JEDIDIAH)
Re: iMac: the iFormation Appliance ("Rich C")
Re: Microsoft Stocks and your sanity... (JEDIDIAH)
Re: democracy? ([EMAIL PROTECTED])
Re: Mig Mig (Full Name)
----------------------------------------------------------------------------
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Crossposted-To: comp.os.linux.misc
Subject: Re: democracy?
Date: Tue, 13 Jun 2000 14:57:16 GMT
Good points, Roy!! Except I wouldn't assume that Sal-d00d is corrupt.
He may just be ignorant; another sad commentary on the woeful inadequacy
of the publik skul sistum, d00d!
In article <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>,
[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
<snip>
>
> Isn't ignorance bliss? The only thing that counts in America is money.
> Your politics are incredibly corrupt. Of course so is the politics of
most
> 1st world countries. The third world is worse for sure. But the USA
should
> set an example and it fails woefully. It appears that in the USA you
can
> fool most of the people most of the time. Very sad.
>
> With regard to the earlier comment, in a previous post, about the
average person
> being stupid, this is unfortunately true. They aren't born stupid but
develop the
> trait through crap educational systems and a life where thinking does
them no
> good at all. Who benefits from this. Institutional religion and big
business.
> Hmm, that desribes the USA perfectly.
>
Sent via Deja.com http://www.deja.com/
Before you buy.
------------------------------
Subject: Re: Open Source Programmers Demonstrate Incompetence
From: Craig Kelley <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Date: 13 Jun 2000 09:12:55 -0600
Jacques Guy <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes:
> Craig Kelley wrote:
>
> > This is more symptomatic of the C-family languages being awful than
> > anything else.
>
> > It's 2000, and we're still writing most of our software in a language
> > that can't even garbage collect
>
> But, which affordable languages do you know that do automatic
> garbage collections?
Which language introduced in the last 10 years does *not* do garbage
collection?
> The first and last I used for a long time was Simula 67. I do not
> remember if Oberon did, but I dropped Oberon: there were only
> Windows versions available. I have found two years ago, a nice
> language that does garbage collections, but I can never reliably
> tell how much free RAM I have left :-( Yes, I can, when my programs
> slow down so much that I suspect that it is swapping to disk. I call
> prevent it from swapping to disk, but then, it aborts without
> warning if it ever runs out of memory. So, to come back to my point,
> what is there that garbage-collects (apart from Euphoria, the
> language in question, which you now have for Linux too).
Java, python, perl, haskell, icon, Visual Basic, ... I'm sure there
are at least a dozen others I'm leaving out here. :)
--
The wheel is turning but the hamster is dead.
Craig Kelley -- [EMAIL PROTECTED]
http://www.isu.edu/~kellcrai finger [EMAIL PROTECTED] for PGP block
------------------------------
Subject: Re: Linux faster than Windows?
From: Craig Kelley <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Date: 13 Jun 2000 09:20:54 -0600
Arthur <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes:
> mbox does have problems - the message file can occasionally become
> corrupted, which thoroughly screws up mutt, elm or pine. It's easy
> to fix with a text editor, but the locking/concurrency issues can
> cause you to lose all the mail in the file if you're not careful.
> OTOH, a lot of the world gets by with mbox format, and the load,
> save, and delete times are in the range of a few seconds on a
> decent system.
I think an XML implementation would be a good compromise (although,
qmail handles it nicely too).
> I've only looked at a few Windows mail clients, but they all use
> either mbox or a similar single large file to hold messages, and
> from what I've heard are all susceptible to the same problems.
> The ones that use a text based format (Pegasus, Eudora) can be
> fixed easily with a text editor and re-indexed. With the ones
> that use a proprietary format (guess who) you're SOL from what
> I've heard.
Yeah, .pst files are even worse.
--
The wheel is turning but the hamster is dead.
Craig Kelley -- [EMAIL PROTECTED]
http://www.isu.edu/~kellcrai finger [EMAIL PROTECTED] for PGP block
------------------------------
From: Alan Baker <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Crossposted-To: comp.sys.mac.advocacy,comp.os.ms-windows.advocacy,comp.unix.advocacy
Subject: Re: G4 in space!
Date: Tue, 13 Jun 2000 08:25:34 -0700
In article <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>,
[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
>On Tue, 13 Jun 2000 23:16:59 +1200, Tom Elam wrote this reply to Lawrence
>DčOliveiro <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>:
>
>>Just saw this item <http://www.spaceviews.com/2000/06/11a.html> about a
>>company that wants to put the first satellite into orbit containing a
>>Web server--and they're going to use a Mac G4!
>
>
>Hey dummy - Mac does not make the G4, Motorola makes it. Another case of
>an
>Apple advocate willing to let Apple take the credit for innovation that is
>not
>their's. Oh well, life goes on......
Unable to read, Tom.
Or just too stupid to comprehend.
Or is it just that your mind is so closed that you rejected out of hand
the possibility that the man might have meant exactly what he said.
'SkyCorp said it will fly an Apple Macintosh G4 computer in an
experimental satellite it is planning to deploy from the space shuttle
during a flight next year.'
and
'"This Web server will utilize standard computer technology, modified
for space," said Dennis Wingo, CEO of SkyCorp. "Apple Computer has
agreed to provide hardware and technical support to SkyCorp for this
venture."'
and
'Users would be able to access the server using wireless networking
protocols, including a SkyCorp-developed variant of Apple's existing
AirPort wireless networking technology,'
--
Alan Baker
Vancouver, British Columbia
"If you raise the ceiling four feet, move the fireplace from that wall to that
wall, you'll still only get the full stereophonic effect if you sit in the
bottom of that cupboard."
------------------------------
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Crossposted-To: comp.os.linux.misc
Subject: Re: democracy?
Date: Tue, 13 Jun 2000 15:24:14 GMT
In article <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>,
[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
<snip>
> For all its failings the Thai people are a class above all
> others.
Ah-HAA! I think you've hit on a darned good answer!
People everywhere are pretty much the same. Thailand, America, Russia,
Chechnya, China, etc., etc... anywhere you meet people, you find that
people are just "ordinary Joes" wherever you go.
It is government (whether run by religion, business, political parties,
or whatever) that makes a country "bad" or "worst".
The best government ever devised had "bugs".
For example, Madison, Hamilton, et al. had the right idea(s), but they
failed to protect US from the Democrats & Republicans. As has been
pointed out nearby, they warned against the evils of political parties
(their word was "faction", and it was The Federalist #9 AND #10, BTW),
yet they put no mechanism in place to permanently thwart them.
They left that duty up to US. "We the People". It's our job to police
these bastards & run them out of town if they misbehave. So when did
the American people quit that job? A long time ago is when! So long
ago, that now we have new visitors like Sal-d00d proclaiming the USA to
be some kind of "democracy"! Sad, Sal. You should be ashamed.
We ALL should be ashamed!!!
Sent via Deja.com http://www.deja.com/
Before you buy.
------------------------------
Subject: Re: Microsoft Stocks and your sanity...
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (Pete Goodwin)
Date: 13 Jun 2000 16:28:29 GMT
[EMAIL PROTECTED] (Salvador Peralta) wrote in
<[EMAIL PROTECTED]>:
>Linux is faster than windows. Unless the micros~1 sponsored benchmark
>has changed, Linux still serves nt clients faster than nt. Apache is
>still more stable with lower overhead, higher scalability, and more
>customizability than iis.
If that were true, then why are the benchmarks I've run slower on Linux
than Windows? I'm not talking about apache or web servers, I'm talking
simple applications.
>Linux is a much better system than nt for whole classes of functions and
>comes with a much stronger core environment for developers than windows
>nt.
Then why are there more development tools for Windows than Linux? How is it
I can buy a RAD tool on Windows but can't on Linux (not yet anyway).
--
============
Pete Goodwin
------------------------------
Subject: Re: An Example of the Superiority of Windows vs Linux
From: Craig Kelley <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Date: 13 Jun 2000 09:31:18 -0600
Tiberious <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes:
Well, I recently swapped out my Celron 450A/Tyan motherboard with an
ASUS/Athlon 700 motherboard.
Linux booted up and basically said, "cool, you have a new processor".
Windows 98 booted up and FREAKED OUT. It needed the Windows 98 CD to
load the drivers for the PCI bus, but my IDE controller is over that
bridge so the CDROM drivers weren't loaded yet (it only gave me A: and
C: as choices).
A re-install fixed the "problem".
I can't belive people write this crap.
--
The wheel is turning but the hamster is dead.
Craig Kelley -- [EMAIL PROTECTED]
http://www.isu.edu/~kellcrai finger [EMAIL PROTECTED] for PGP block
------------------------------
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Crossposted-To: comp.os.linux.misc
Subject: Re: democracy?
Date: Tue, 13 Jun 2000 15:31:44 GMT
In article <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>,
[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
<snip>
> For all its failings the Thai people are a class above all
> others.
Ah-HAA! I think you've hit on a darned good answer!
People everywhere are pretty much the same. Thailand, America, Russia,
Chechnya, China, etc., etc... anywhere you meet people, you find that
people are just "ordinary Joes" wherever you go.
It is government (whether run by religion, business, political parties,
or whatever) that makes a country "bad" or "worst".
The best government ever devised had "bugs".
For example, Madison, Hamilton, et al. had the right idea(s), but they
failed to protect US from the Democrats & Republicans. As has been
pointed out nearby, they warned against the evils of political parties
(their word was "faction", and it was The Federalist #9 AND #10, BTW),
yet they put no mechanism in place to permanently thwart them.
They left that duty up to US. "We the People". It's our job to police
these bastards & run them out of town if they misbehave. So when did
the American people quit that job? A long time ago is when! So long
ago, that now we have new visitors like Sal-d00d proclaiming the USA to
be some kind of "democracy"! Sad, Sal. You should be ashamed.
We ALL should be ashamed!!!
Sent via Deja.com http://www.deja.com/
Before you buy.
------------------------------
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Crossposted-To: comp.os.linux.misc
Subject: Re: democracy?
Date: Tue, 13 Jun 2000 15:34:36 GMT
In article <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>,
[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
<snip>
> For all its failings the Thai people are a class above all
> others.
Ah-HAA! I think you've hit on a darned good answer!
People everywhere are pretty much the same. Thailand, America, Russia,
Chechnya, China, etc., etc... anywhere you meet people, you find that
people are just "ordinary Joes" wherever you go.
It is government (whether run by religion, business, political parties,
or whatever) that makes a country "bad" or "worst".
The best government ever devised had "bugs".
For example, Madison, Hamilton, et al. had the right idea(s), but they
failed to protect US from the Democrats & Republicans. As has been
pointed out nearby, they warned against the evils of political parties
(their word was "faction", and it was The Federalist #9 AND #10, BTW),
yet they put no mechanism in place to permanently thwart them.
They left that duty up to US. "We the People". It's our job to police
these bastards & run them out of town if they misbehave. So when did
the American people quit that job? A long time ago is when! So long
ago, that now we have new visitors like Sal-d00d proclaiming the USA to
be some kind of "democracy"! Sad, Sal. You should be ashamed.
We ALL should be ashamed!!!
Sent via Deja.com http://www.deja.com/
Before you buy.
------------------------------
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (JEDIDIAH)
Crossposted-To: comp.sys.mac.advocacy,comp.os.ms-windows.advocacy,comp.unix.advocacy
Subject: Re: iMac: the iFormation Appliance
Date: Tue, 13 Jun 2000 15:54:19 GMT
On Tue, 13 Jun 2000 22:22:28 +1200, Lawrence DčOliveiro
<[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>In article <394325c0@news>, "Rich C" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
>wrote:
>
>>"Sam Morris" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote in message
>>news:bnw05.471$[EMAIL PROTECTED]...
>>> IIRC: CDs can be partitioned into different volumes, as they are just
>>> another form of disk medium. An example is a data/audio CD - the data
>>track
>>> is mounted as a volume, and the audio track is accessable from within CD
>>> Player. Also, those countless presentational CDs containing Macromedia
>>> displays that are given away with everything nowadays often contain an
>>> HFS
>>> partition which my Mac uses, and a FAT partition which contains an EXE
>>> for
>>> PC-using people to play with. Although my Mac correctly read and mounted
>>> both partitions on the desktop, my PC didn't reveal the HFS partition -
>>>
>>
>>CD sessions (volumes as you call them) are NOT the same as partitions on
>>a
>>hard drive. When you insert a multi-session CD into a CDROM drive, you get
>>ONE drive letter. Since there is only one data track on a multi-session
>>CD,
>>that's all that is required. The CD player can read the audio tracks from
>>the other sessions, and so can the [windows] file manager, but they are
>>displayed as being on the same drive letter.
>
>Ah, you're accustomed to a system which treats CDs as something
>fundamentally different from hard drives. On the Mac, a CD is just
>another kind of filesystem volume, and you can have HFS- and
>HFS-Plus-formatted CDs, in a way that you _cannot_ have FATnn- or
>NTFS-formatted CDs under Windows, or UFS-formatted CDs under UNIX.
Actually, you can put any sort of filesystem you like on a
CD under Unix including ext2fs. Unix tends to abstract things
to absurd levels.
>
>On the Mac, ISO 9660 is just another installable filesystem. If I put
Now, whether or not a CD can have multiple "partitions" is
another matter.
>in, say, a Zip cartridge that was in ISO 9660 format, it would mount on
>my Mac exactly as though it were a CD. The Zip driver doesn't need to do
>anything special to support this: it's handled at the filesystem level,
>not the disk driver level.
>
>To clarify the partition-versus-session issue, consider the cover CD
>from the latest issue of Future Music magazine. This has an ISO
>partition for Windows users, an HFS partition for Mac users, and some
>audio tracks. When I put it in my drive, I see two volume icons appear
>simultaneously on my desktop: one is the HFS partition, containing all
>the Mac-specific goodies for this issue, and the other is the audio
>partition, where I see each audio track appear as a file. I can access
>either or both, depending on what I want to do with the CD.
IOW, your "more flexbile" OS still just see's the disc as a
multisession CD with one and only one data segment. This is
no different than under WinDOS.
--
|||
/ | \
Need sane PPP docs? Try penguin.lvcm.com.
------------------------------
From: "Rich C" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Crossposted-To: comp.sys.mac.advocacy,comp.os.ms-windows.advocacy,comp.unix.advocacy
Subject: Re: iMac: the iFormation Appliance
Date: Tue, 13 Jun 2000 10:54:46 -0400
Lawrence DčOliveiro <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote in message
news:[EMAIL PROTECTED]...
> In article <394325c0@news>, "Rich C" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> wrote:
>
> >"Sam Morris" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote in message
> >news:bnw05.471$[EMAIL PROTECTED]...
> >> IIRC: CDs can be partitioned into different volumes, as they are just
> >> another form of disk medium. An example is a data/audio CD - the data
> >track
> >> is mounted as a volume, and the audio track is accessable from within
CD
> >> Player. Also, those countless presentational CDs containing Macromedia
> >> displays that are given away with everything nowadays often contain an
> >> HFS
> >> partition which my Mac uses, and a FAT partition which contains an EXE
> >> for
> >> PC-using people to play with. Although my Mac correctly read and
mounted
> >> both partitions on the desktop, my PC didn't reveal the HFS partition -
> >>
> >
> >CD sessions (volumes as you call them) are NOT the same as partitions on
> >a
> >hard drive. When you insert a multi-session CD into a CDROM drive, you
get
> >ONE drive letter. Since there is only one data track on a multi-session
> >CD,
> >that's all that is required. The CD player can read the audio tracks from
> >the other sessions, and so can the [windows] file manager, but they are
> >displayed as being on the same drive letter.
>
> Ah, you're accustomed to a system which treats CDs as something
> fundamentally different from hard drives. On the Mac, a CD is just
> another kind of filesystem volume, and you can have HFS- and
> HFS-Plus-formatted CDs, in a way that you _cannot_ have FATnn- or
> NTFS-formatted CDs under Windows, or UFS-formatted CDs under UNIX.
>
No, I am familiar with ISO 9660, Joliet, and Rock Ridge, which have nothing
to do with HFS or FAT partitions. You are correct in that the MAC may
utilize
multiple data sessions on a CD, and may present these sessions as separate
volumes
to the user, and that the PC can only recognize ONE data partition on a
CD-XA.
But these are NOT partitions in the classic sense. They are merely
interpreted that
way by the OS.
I guess I misinterpreted your post, and thought you were equating CD
sessions with
hard drive partitions. The PC can't mount these sessions as multiple drive
volumes
(letters) because of the architecture of the PC (actually it's Windows'
fault.)
> On the Mac, ISO 9660 is just another installable filesystem. If I put
> in, say, a Zip cartridge that was in ISO 9660 format, it would mount on
> my Mac exactly as though it were a CD. The Zip driver doesn't need to do
> anything special to support this: it's handled at the filesystem level,
> not the disk driver level.
Right. And Windows treats Zip drives like removable hard disks, which can be
formatted and partitioned just like fixed hard drives. That's why PC and MAC
Zip disks are not compatible. It's a different philosophy.
>
> To clarify the partition-versus-session issue, consider the cover CD
> from the latest issue of Future Music magazine. This has an ISO
> partition for Windows users, an HFS partition for Mac users, and some
> audio tracks. When I put it in my drive, I see two volume icons appear
> simultaneously on my desktop: one is the HFS partition, containing all
> the Mac-specific goodies for this issue, and the other is the audio
> partition, where I see each audio track appear as a file. I can access
> either or both, depending on what I want to do with the CD.
Your OS is INTERPRETING the sessions as filesystem volumes. There is
really no difference in formatting between the session which contains the
PC data and the session that contains the MAC data. I will bet that the MAC
session is the second one, since Windows can only recognize one data session
on an XA CD.
I think we agree in principle; we were just confused on terminology. ;o)
--
Rich C.
"Great minds discuss ideas.
Average minds discuss events.
Small minds discuss people."
------------------------------
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (JEDIDIAH)
Subject: Re: Microsoft Stocks and your sanity...
Date: Tue, 13 Jun 2000 15:56:46 GMT
On 13 Jun 2000 13:55:44 GMT, Pete Goodwin <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
wrote:
>[EMAIL PROTECTED] (Charlie Ebert) wrote in
><[EMAIL PROTECTED]>:
>
>>I think it's funny to see all these investors flooding the Linux
>>Advocacy.
>
>Investors? Where?
>
>>It just proves a very strategic point that Linux is INDEED a threat to
>>Windows...
>
>Yep, Linux is a threat alright, if you see it as such.
IDC sees it that way too...
[deletia]
--
|||
/ | \
Need sane PPP docs? Try penguin.lvcm.com.
------------------------------
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Crossposted-To: comp.os.linux.misc
Subject: Re: democracy?
Date: Tue, 13 Jun 2000 15:51:55 GMT
In article <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>,
Praedor Tempus <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
<snip>
> No matter how you slice it, corruption is bad. It is bad for the
people
> as a whole, bad for the environment, bad for political stability.
So when Microsoft, IBM, Bell Labs, U.S. Steel, USPS, China, etc., etc.
buy votes - uh - "contribute soft money to the party of their choice"...
this would be...???
Sent via Deja.com http://www.deja.com/
Before you buy.
------------------------------
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (Full Name)
Crossposted-To: comp.os.ms-windows.nt.advocacy
Subject: Re: Mig Mig
Date: Tue, 13 Jun 2000 16:08:30 GMT
Reply-To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
What Dave says below is correct.
My name is Robert Peters. If you like you may e-mail me on
[EMAIL PROTECTED] Check out
http://www.psychiatry.uq.edu.au/. In particular
http://www.psychiatry.uq.edu.au/staff/genstaff.asp.
I've known Dave for some time and we have worked together in the past.
He uses my modem bank to dial in occasionally.
When I found Dave was posting to these groups I followed suit (under
the pseudonym "Full Name"). Neither of us really likes Linux. We
often exchange e-mails about our negative experiences.
As far as this moron Mig Mig is concerned, the guy has simply made an
idiot of himself. I should have pulled him up earlier but I liked
watching him make a fool of himself.
For the record:
www.psychiatry.uq.edu.au -> 130.102.95.2
psychiatry.uq.edu.au -> 130.102.95.2
If you examine the header of this post you will find the IP address to
be 130.102.95.153.
Dave's e-mail is [EMAIL PROTECTED]
QIMR's email server is somethimg like 152.98.?.?
Dave's WWW page is at genepi.qimr.edu.au -> 152.98.160.29
If you examine the header for the post below you will see Dave has
used a dial-in he set up for himself recently. Both QIMR and the
Psychiatry Department use bunyip.cc.uq.edu.au as a news server. Not
much we can do about that.
Note that all my opinions are my own and do not in any way reflect the
opinions of my employer.
On Tue, 13 Jun 2000 13:08:45 GMT, [EMAIL PROTECTED] (David Smyth)
wrote:
>I've just discovered "Mig Mig" has splashed my name all over this
>newsgroup. He has my e-mail address but did not take the time to send
>me an e-mail to let me know he was attributing all sorts of things to
>me. But I generally discard e-mails from newsgroups so it may be
>possible he e-mailed me and I deleted it without reading. I would
>have e-mailed him this message but he uses the address <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>.
>
>For those of you who have called me a liar perhaps you may like to
>reconsider.
>
>For those of you who believe I am a student (as indicated by "Mig
>Mig") you may like to check
>http://genepi.qimr.edu.au/general/about.html. Toward the bottom of
>the page will be my contact details. This is where I work. I haven't
>been a student for some time.
>
>As for Mr "Full Name" thanks for the e-mail. However, I think it
>might be time for you to stop tormenting these people. Because of the
>"Mig Mig" guy it seems to have gotten out of hand. Its not much fun
>to be called a liar by someone you have never met just because you and
>I have used the same modem bank (along with about 200 other people).
>
>As for "Mig Mig", I've read some of your posts and all I can say is
>that you are a very foolish. They are recorded on dejanews and I'll
>be sending copies of them along with my complaints to
>[EMAIL PROTECTED] You'll probably will just switch to another
>ISP. Frankly I don't care.
>
>
>David Smyth
>IT Support
>Queensland Institute of Medical Research
>
------------------------------
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