Linux-Advocacy Digest #52, Volume #31 Mon, 25 Dec 00 04:13:03 EST
Contents:
Re: open source is getting worst with time. (steve@x)
Re: Conclusion ("Tom Wilson")
Re: SMP article in MaximumPC--where's BeOS? (israel raj thomas)
Genre magazines and comp.sci reality (israel raj thomas)
Re: open source is getting worst with time. ("Anthony E. Greene")
Re: open source is getting worst with time. ([EMAIL PROTECTED])
Re: open source is getting worst with time. ("Anthony E. Greene")
Re: Conclusion (Jim Richardson)
Re: Conclusion (Jim Richardson)
Re: Corel to pull out of Linux (Jim Richardson)
Re: Help plea from Newbie (Monitor) (Jim Richardson)
Re: Name one thing Microsoft INVENTED.... (Jim Richardson)
Re: Sun Microsystems and the end of Open Source (Jim Richardson)
----------------------------------------------------------------------------
From: steve@x <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: Re: open source is getting worst with time.
Date: 24 Dec 2000 22:24:55 -0800
In article <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>, Glitch says...
>
>
>catch 22 anyone?
>
it is a catch 22.
they want me to unsinstall my OS, and install Debian, so I can install
using apt-get. (Also debian I can;t use, since I needed some feature
of the last Linux kernel, and debian uses the old kernel).
>i had a similar run around with trying to get the avi plugin for xmms
>working. I needed the sdl-config script for the avi plugin to compile.
>I had SDL installed but did not the script for some reason so i had to
>take time finding, downloading, and then installing SDL. Then I went
>back to avi plugin and started to compiled it over again since I had the
>file it needed. After that I believe I ran into another similar snag
>before I actually got the avi plugin compiled. All that to watch
>movies.
I feel your pain. But this is the open source/linux way. that is why
linux for the desktop will never ever make it. Imagine Aunt mary doing
all that so she can install a program to see her kids pictures on the
computer.
It is clear the people who work on linux and open source, must think the
rest of the world are programmers and hackers like them. They have no
concept of what an end user is. This is really not Linux fault per say,
it is that Unix fundamently could never become a desktop OS. Many have
tried and many have failed. They are still trying, and they are still failing.
Unix has been around for 30 years or more. and it has less than 5%
of the desktop market.
------------------------------
From: "Tom Wilson" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Crossposted-To: comp.os.ms-windows.advocacy,comp.os.ms-windows.nt.advocacy
Subject: Re: Conclusion
Date: Mon, 25 Dec 2000 07:22:44 GMT
"Aaron R. Kulkis" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote in message
news:[EMAIL PROTECTED]...
> Tom Wilson wrote:
> >
> > "The Ghost In The Machine" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote in
> > message news:[EMAIL PROTECTED]...
> > > In comp.os.linux.advocacy, Tom Wilson
> > > <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> > > wrote
> > > on Sun, 24 Dec 2000 13:58:32 GMT
> > > <cin16.175$[EMAIL PROTECTED]>:
> > > >
> > > >"Chad C. Mulligan" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote in message
> > > >news:SG816.23891$[EMAIL PROTECTED]...
> > > >>
> > > >> "sfcybear" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote in message
> > > >> news:922u16$hpp$[EMAIL PROTECTED]...
> >
> > <snip>
> >
> > > >>
> > > >> Repeating the big lie, Joe Goebbells would be proud of you.
> > > >
> > > >Looking for the 'H' word, I take it? ;)
> > >
> > > Hell?
> > >
> > > Harpies?
> > >
> > > Hatred?
> > >
> > > Hat rack?
> > >
> > > Hoopla?
> > >
> > > Hacked-up numbers?
> > >
> > > Hacked systems?
> > >
> > > Hurts?
> > >
> > > Hertz?
> > >
> > > Hambone?
> > >
> > > (um...can you give us a hint, here? :-) )
> > >
> > > [.sigsnip]
> > >
> > > --
> > > [EMAIL PROTECTED] -- insert random word beginning with 'H' here
> > > up 88 days, 9:23, running Linux.
> >
> > Last hint: Heil!
>
> FUCK Godwin and his stupid premise.
Awwww shadup you Nazi conservative! :)
> >
> > PS: I don't believe invocation works without someone calling sombody
else a
> > Nazi first. You may call me one if you wish as i'm fairly thick-skinned
and
> > not likely to be offended.
--
Tom Wilson
Sunbelt Software Solutions
------------------------------
From: israel raj thomas <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Crossposted-To: comp.sys.be.advocacy,comp.sys.be.misc,alt.os.beos
Subject: Re: SMP article in MaximumPC--where's BeOS?
Date: Mon, 25 Dec 2000 07:26:54 GMT
On Tue, 12 Sep 2000 21:49:05 GMT, Galley_BeOS_User
<[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>There's a lengthy article on SMP in the October issue of MaximumPC, but
>nowhere does it make mention of the most kick-ass SMP-compliant OS on
>the planet.
Linux was mentioned......
;-)
As for Be:
"How much market share does it have.
Will the company advertise with us ? "
Those were the probable questions that had to be answered....
Genre magazines are in the business to sell advertising to morons.
>From the viewpoint of the average magazine having articles on Be is as
pointless as having articles on Chorus, Amoeba, or Inferno ( Inferno
even on a 1024 processor system before Lucent orphaned it out to Vita
Nuova ). ie: nice but they dont sell advertising.
Look at the huge fuss about the .NET platform.
Why, GCC had had an ILF for decades but when MS adopts an intermediate
language format, wow !
------------------------------
From: israel raj thomas <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Crossposted-To: comp.sys.be.advocacy,comp.sys.be.misc,alt.os.beos
Subject: Genre magazines and comp.sci reality
Date: Mon, 25 Dec 2000 07:27:43 GMT
On Tue, 12 Sep 2000 21:49:05 GMT, Galley_BeOS_User
<[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>There's a lengthy article on SMP in the October issue of MaximumPC, but
>nowhere does it make mention of the most kick-ass SMP-compliant OS on
>the planet.
Linux was mentioned......
;-)
As for Be:
"How much market share does it have.
Will the company advertise with us ? "
Those were the probable questions that had to be answered....
Genre magazines are in the business to sell advertising to morons.
>From the viewpoint of the average magazine having articles on Be is as
pointless as having articles on Chorus, Amoeba, or Inferno ( Inferno
even on a 1024 processor system before Lucent orphaned it out to Vita
Nuova ). ie: nice but they dont sell advertising.
Look at the huge fuss about the .NET platform.
Why, GCC had had an ILF for decades but when MS adopts an intermediate
language format, wow !
------------------------------
From: "Anthony E. Greene" <agreene@.NOSPAM.pobox.com>
Subject: Re: open source is getting worst with time.
Date: Mon, 25 Dec 2000 07:37:27 GMT
In article <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>, steve@x
<[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> RPM is now the wrong tool for the job? interesting. If it is wrong, why
> give to the user to use? to tourture them?
The problem is that the software was packaged using RPM4 and you (and
thousands of other RH6.x users) have RPM3. It would probably be easist to
compile AbiWord yourself:
cd /usr/local/source
tar -zxvf /home/username/download/abisuite-xxxx.tar.gz
cd abisuite-xxxx
./configure
make
make install
Tony
--
Anthony E. Greene <agreene-AT-pobox.com> <http://www.pobox.com/~agreene/>
PGP Key: 0x6C94239D/7B3D BD7D 7D91 1B44 BA26 C484 A42A 60DD 6C94 239D
Chat: AOL/Yahoo: TonyG05 ICQ: 91183266
Linux. The choice of a GNU Generation. <http://www.linux.org/>
------------------------------
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Subject: Re: open source is getting worst with time.
Reply-To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Date: 25 Dec 2000 18:50:48 +1100
steve@x <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes:
>funny, that I had win95 for 5 years before I upgraded, and in
>all that time, never had an application not install becuase
>it needed something else to be there before it installed.
You don't install many games, do you? DirectX seems to be legendary for
always being one version behind what your software actually wants...
Bernie
--
The abdomen, the chest, and the brain will forever be shut from the
intrusion of the wise and humane surgeon
Sir John Eric Ericksen
British surgeon, appointed Surgeon-Extraordinary to Queen Victoria
------------------------------
From: "Anthony E. Greene" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: Re: open source is getting worst with time.
Date: Mon, 25 Dec 2000 07:56:29 GMT
In article <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>, steve@x <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
wrote:
> You are missing the forest by looking at the trees. The problem is more
> fundemental that just this one application. The whole design of
> application installation system is broke on linux.
The basic problem is the same one that 16bit Win users ran into when
32bit Win apps became common. The RPM system is in the middle of an
upgrade. When this was done with the C libraries a few years ago,
programmers and distributors were careful to note which set of libs
were required. Authors need to do the same for RPM4 packages during
this transition period. The AbiWord folks and most others did not do this.
You have several choices:
* Wait for an RPM3 package.
* Build an RPM from the src.rpm file.
* Compile from source.
* Switch to a non-RPM system like Debian.
* Do without AbiWord.
* Go back to Windows and curse it the next time Microsoft
upgrades something that breaks older implementations.
The current RPM system is very good. I have used it to manage hundreds of
packages on my systems. The upcoming RPM4 packages system is supposed to
have improvements. There is a FAQ that describes how to upgrade an RPM3
system to RPM4. I beleive it uses RPm 3.05 to install RPM4. Check the
Red Hat site for more info.
I can see why you're frustrated, but you're taking it out on the wrong
target. This is not a Linux problem. Your difficulties are being caused by
the transistion of one vendor's packaging system.
Tony
--
Anthony E. Greene <agreene-AT-pobox.com> <http://www.pobox.com/~agreene/>
PGP Key: 0x6C94239D/7B3D BD7D 7D91 1B44 BA26 C484 A42A 60DD 6C94 239D
Chat: AOL/Yahoo: TonyG05 ICQ: 91183266
Linux. The choice of a GNU Generation. <http://www.linux.org/>
------------------------------
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (Jim Richardson)
Crossposted-To: comp.os.ms-windows.advocacy,comp.os.ms-windows.nt.advocacy
Subject: Re: Conclusion
Date: Sun, 24 Dec 2000 21:30:27 -0800
Reply-To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
On Sat, 23 Dec 2000 03:49:09 GMT,
Chad C. Mulligan, in the persona of <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>,
brought forth the following words...:
>
>"sfcybear" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote in message
>news:91vpdg$967$[EMAIL PROTECTED]...
>> In article <ZGy06.16247$[EMAIL PROTECTED]>,
>> "Chad C. Mulligan" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>> >
><trimmed>
>> > >
>> >
>> > And Ghost in the Machine, and several others.
>>
>>
>> You are also forgetting the *Documented Fact* that WWW.UPTIMES.ORG a
>> second METHOD of gathering stats, gives the same results. BOTH indicate
>> w2K is UNSTABLE!
>>
>
>Or they both cannot get the correct metrics from the machine. By default
>performance metrics are only available to authenticated administrators.
When instabilities or inaccuracies are claimed im M$ products, you calll loudly
(and understandably) for proof. Now you wish us to accept with no proof
offered, that two separate processes/products have the same exact flaw?
Put up your proof...
>
>> Does that make the uptime *average* wrong? not in the way that Netcraft
>> defines what the stat means. Does Uptimes relate to a sinlge machine?
>> YES. Does Uptimes indicate that W2K is unstable as well? YES! 2
>> different methods, same result. But you seem to ingnore that. Or is it a
>> bad case of denial?
>>
>
>Averaging bad data will simply give you a bad average. Are you familiar
>with the GIGO principle.
If machine A is misidentified as a webserver, but is infact a firewall, it's
uptime is still relevent for a general stability datapoint.
--
Jim Richardson
Anarchist, pagan and proud of it
WWW.eskimo.com/~warlock
Linux, because life's too short for a buggy OS.
------------------------------
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (Jim Richardson)
Crossposted-To: comp.os.ms-windows.advocacy,comp.os.ms-windows.nt.advocacy
Subject: Re: Conclusion
Date: Sun, 24 Dec 2000 21:35:12 -0800
Reply-To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
On Sat, 23 Dec 2000 21:23:51 GMT,
Chad C. Mulligan, in the persona of <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>,
brought forth the following words...:
>> > >
>> >
>> > Averaging bad data will simply give you a bad average. Are you
>> familiar
>> > with the GIGO principle.
>> >
>>
>> THe data has never been proven to be bad. In fact 2 sources both show
>> the same results indicating that W2K is not stable. Athough many CLAIMS
>> have been made no proof has been given to prove that they are not
>> accurate. Indeed, every objection has been proven false or a
>> misreproesentation of what the numbers are *defined* as (read the
>> netcraft FAQ to get a diffinition of what the netcraft numbers are).
>>
>
>How can the data cosidered good when a request sent to a given web server is
>replied to by a router, firewall or other system in certain, quite common,
>installations?
>
If the OS is detected correctly, and the uptime returned for that system is
accurate. Then what diff does it make whether it is listed as a webserver or
firewall if what you are after is uptime ?
>
>> No doccumented proof showing W2K as stable in the production world vs. 2
>> sources showing W2K is NOT stable and NO documented proof showing that
>> the numbers from EITHER site are wrong! Even Eric's claims match what
>> Netcraft states the numbers to be (read the FAQ)
>>
>
>Empirical data is all I can give you, but since that contradicts your
>desired hypothesis you don't hear.
>
>>
>> > >
>> > <trimmed>
>> >
>> >
>>
>>
>> Sent via Deja.com
>> http://www.deja.com/
>
>
--
Jim Richardson
Anarchist, pagan and proud of it
WWW.eskimo.com/~warlock
Linux, because life's too short for a buggy OS.
------------------------------
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (Jim Richardson)
Subject: Re: Corel to pull out of Linux
Date: Sun, 24 Dec 2000 21:55:45 -0800
Reply-To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
On Sun, 17 Dec 2000 21:42:08 +0200,
JM, in the persona of <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>,
brought forth the following words...:
>On Sat, 16 Dec 2000 14:52:41 -0600, in comp.os.linux.advocacy,
> ("Erik Funkenbusch" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>) wrote:
>
>>"Nigel Feltham" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote in message
>>news:91ga16$42iqv$[EMAIL PROTECTED]...
>>> Don't forget that downloading distro's and most apps from the net is not
>>> illegal like it is with windows - several distro's have iso images of
>>their
>>> distro's on their own ftp sites for users to download instead of buying it
>>> (most of my distro's have come from the cover CD on linux magazines as
>>> it is not illegal for magazine publishers to download iso images and
>>> redistribute
>>> them either). Other than possibly Corel linux I cannot think of any way
>>thay
>>> downloading a distro instead of buying it could ever be illegal (even if
>>the
>>> person downloading it resells copies this is allowed in the GPL licence).
>>>
>>> Linux software (or at least the GPL parts) can never be pirated as it is
>>> owned
>>> by everyone - you are only giving away a copy of something the person you
>>> are giving it to already has rights to own.
>>
>>You're forgetting that a distribution may have some GPL'd software and some
>>non-GPL'd software. You're free to copy the GPL'd stuff, but not the
>>non-GPL'd stuff, which means you need to examine the license of piece of
>>software on the distro unless you can be reasonably assured (ala debian)
>>that everything is indeed free to copy.
>
>Or you could just copy it all anyway (Who's going to know?)
SuSE for example puts all the "encumbered" packages on it's own CD.
(not sure how the DVD distro does it, probably a seperate dir.
--
Jim Richardson
Anarchist, pagan and proud of it
WWW.eskimo.com/~warlock
Linux, because life's too short for a buggy OS.
------------------------------
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (Jim Richardson)
Subject: Re: Help plea from Newbie (Monitor)
Date: Sun, 24 Dec 2000 22:07:33 -0800
Reply-To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
On Mon, 18 Dec 2000 07:05:22 GMT,
[EMAIL PROTECTED], in the persona of <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>,
brought forth the following words...:
>I finally decided to find out what all the Linux fuss was about. I
>spent the weekend hunched over an old Compaq P75 and an even older
>monitor. Boy, was it worth it! Linux has blown my mind. I was about to
>throw the PC out - it's been in the cupboard for a couple of years ever
>since I bought a Mac when I finally had it with Micro$oft. Now I
>realise I needn't have bought anything!
>
>I have one small problem. My monitor (Tatung 14SBS) is not listed in
>the Redhat 6.0 install program. I got it working using Custom and got
>all the specs from the Tatung website. But Linux won't run it at 800 x
>600, only 640 x 480.Can I change this without reinstalling and if I
>change monitors how do I set the new monitor up? Also is it possible to
>get Linux and my Mac to share a monitor (Viewsonic 17"?)?
>
>Thnaks in advance and sorry if this isn't the best forum for this
>
>
The monitor isn't as important as the video card. Find out what video card
it has (compaq, might be some weird one, but check inside for the chipset). You
can also check and see if it has been autodetected. Check in /proc for a
listing in the pci entry if it is a pci card. With that information, the best
suggestion is to read the X howto or scan the newsgroups (here not being a good
site for help, it's mostly zealotry run wild, amusing but not much help.)
Knowing the chipset and the mem size of the card is the most important thing.
As for sharing the monitor, it depends on what you mean by "share". You could
simply disconnect and reconnect to each computer as needed. Or you could get a
switch box that will let you switch from one to the next. (the cheap ones do so
only with power off, the more expensive ones, will let you do it safetly with
power on to both systems. Or another option, is to network the machines and get
an X client for the Mac, that way you can remote any app from the linux box to
the Mac and run it from there. This is nice with systems with older vid cards
with limited memory and refresh rates, but it can be a bit overwhelming at
first. Well worth it in the long run tho' IMHO.
--
Jim Richardson
Anarchist, pagan and proud of it
WWW.eskimo.com/~warlock
Linux, because life's too short for a buggy OS.
------------------------------
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (Jim Richardson)
Subject: Re: Name one thing Microsoft INVENTED....
Date: Sun, 24 Dec 2000 23:45:47 -0800
Reply-To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
On Sat, 16 Dec 2000 20:03:57 -0600,
Erik Funkenbusch, in the persona of <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>,
brought forth the following words...:
>"Rich C" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote in message
>news:3a3c0a6d$[EMAIL PROTECTED]...
>> "." <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote in message
>> news:91gmul$s0u$[EMAIL PROTECTED]...
>> > Erik Funkenbusch <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>> > > "Donn Miller" <dmmillerzoominternet.net> wrote in message
>> > > news:[EMAIL PROTECTED]...
>> > >> . <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>> > >>
>> > >> > Microsoft does not make or design mice, they were (at the time that
>> > >> > the scrollwheel was introduced) repackaged logitech mice, designed
>> > >> > by logitech engineers. :)
>> > >>
>> > >> I don't know if I'd want to give any more money to MS, even though
>I've
>> > > heard
>> > >> that MS mice are pretty good. Does Logitech get any of the profits
>> from
>> > >> those MS mice?
>> >
>> > > Note the smiley at the end of his sentance. He wasn't serious.
>> >
>> > Well, not entirely anyhow. Microsoft does indeed not make hardware.
>> > Their mice are indeed repackaged.
>>
>> ...and Logitech DOES indeed make a wheel mouse. So you could buy from them
>> directly if you don't want to give money to MS.
>
>MS's mice are *NOT* repackaged Logitech mice. For christs sake, all it
>takes is a brain to notice that MS's mice had the wheel 6+ months before
>Logitech decided to add one. MS also had the new optical mouse first,
>Logitech licensed the technology about 6 months later again (as did Apple).
>
>
>
Gee Erik, you wouldn't be talking about the same stuff that M$ licenced from
Agilent (formerly HP) would you? You wouldn't be implying that M$ owned the
rights to or invented that optical mouse technology would you?
Didn't think so...
--
Jim Richardson
Anarchist, pagan and proud of it
WWW.eskimo.com/~warlock
Linux, because life's too short for a buggy OS.
------------------------------
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (Jim Richardson)
Crossposted-To: comp.os.ms-windows.nt.advocacy
Subject: Re: Sun Microsystems and the end of Open Source
Date: Mon, 25 Dec 2000 00:15:54 -0800
Reply-To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
On Sat, 23 Dec 2000 03:38:00 GMT,
Chad C. Mulligan, in the persona of <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>,
brought forth the following words...:
>
>"Nick Condon" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote in message
>news:[EMAIL PROTECTED]...
>> "Chad C. Mulligan" wrote:
>>
>> > > Also, the "Free" in Free Software doesn't primarily refer to
>> > > money bu to sourcecode. Then you can do all the source auditing
>> > > out want. Infact, one of the BSDs is geared specifically with
>> > > that in mind.
>> > >
>> >
>> > So you would pay for a freebie?
>>
>> Many people do just that. The Free Software Foundation has been selling
>> free-software compilations for nearly 20 years. If you speak French think
>> "libre" rather than "gratis". In English think "free country", not "free
>> lunch".
>>
>
>So much for lower up front costs. There goes TCO even further up for Linux.
Aren't you the one allways talking about how the initial cost of the OS
is such a tiny part of TCO?
--
Jim Richardson
Anarchist, pagan and proud of it
WWW.eskimo.com/~warlock
Linux, because life's too short for a buggy OS.
------------------------------
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