Linux-Advocacy Digest #841, Volume #27 Fri, 21 Jul 00 04:13:03 EDT
Contents:
Re: Star Office to be open sourced ("KLH")
Re: Some Windows weirdnesses... ("Spud")
Re: Am I the only one that finds this just a little scary? ("Stuart Fox")
Re: Am I the only one that finds this just a little scary? ("Stuart Fox")
Re: Which Linux should I try? (Tim Palmer)
Re: Am I the only one that finds this just a little scary? ("Stuart Fox")
Re: Help with printer (Tim Palmer)
Re: Just exactly what IS Linux, anyway? (Tim Palmer)
Re: Linux, easy to use? (Tim Palmer)
Re: Just exactly what IS Linux, anyway? (Tim Palmer)
Re: I had a reality check today :( (Tim Palmer)
Re: Some Windows weirdnesses... (Tim Palmer)
Re: Student run Linux server. (Tim Palmer)
----------------------------------------------------------------------------
From: "KLH" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Crossposted-To: gnu.misc.discuss,comp.sys.sun.misc,comp.os.ms-windows.advocacy
Subject: Re: Star Office to be open sourced
Date: Fri, 21 Jul 2000 00:04:57 -0700
<snip>
> Yes, you could have a standard parser. And then on top of this, you would
> have to have another parser for each DTD. Consider this Python data
> structure:
> (6,"hello",-4.3)
>
> This could be coded in XML as:
>
> <array><int>6</int><string>hello</string><float>-4.3</float></array>
>
> or as:
>
> <list><value>6</value><value>"hello"</value><value>-4.3</value></list>
>
> or in many other ways.
>
I don't know about anyone else but prefer the Python version to the XML :)
<snip>
Best Regards,
Kevin Holmes
"extrasolar"
------------------------------
From: "Spud" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: Re: Some Windows weirdnesses...
Date: Fri, 21 Jul 2000 00:16:10 -0700
[snips]
"The Ghost In The Machine" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote in
message news:[EMAIL PROTECTED]...
> In comp.os.linux.advocacy, James
> <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> wrote
> on Wed, 19 Jul 2000 22:52:29 +0200
> <39761535$0$[EMAIL PROTECTED]>:
> >Well, from the top of my head : "Visio Pro" (compiling diagrams &
> >business/system processes). Is there a Linux equivalent? Also
give us a
> >decent browser (with plenty plug-ins & decent fonts & wysiwyg
printing) in
> >Linux.
>
> There may be a few; the one I'm familiar with is xfig. Not
> quite as pretty, but it's easy to work with once one figures out
> its idiosyncracies.
>
> As for "decent browser", Netscape is one of them
No, no, you misread that. He said "decent", not "horrific piece of
total stinking, steaming turd". Especially with their latest
abortion... er... abomination... er... browser.
------------------------------
From: "Stuart Fox" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Crossposted-To: comp.os.ms-windows.nt.advocacy
Subject: Re: Am I the only one that finds this just a little scary?
Date: Fri, 21 Jul 2000 08:35:46 +0100
"Nathaniel Jay Lee" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote in message
news:[EMAIL PROTECTED]...
> As I said, everything I have heard up to this point was that some
> "divide by zero" error caused the entire network on board the ship to
> fail. And as I said, I would like to see this evidence you have heard.
The reports I read suggested a divide by zero error was to blame, but there
was never a mention of the OS failing. I find it hard to believe that
either way - app or OS dying that the entire network failed. I've never
seen a client hang when a NT box dies - sure, explorer doesn't like it much
but it eventually times out. But a whole network - seems to be a piece
missing from the puzzle.
Stu
------------------------------
From: "Stuart Fox" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Crossposted-To: comp.os.ms-windows.nt.advocacy
Subject: Re: Am I the only one that finds this just a little scary?
Date: Fri, 21 Jul 2000 08:38:06 +0100
"Christopher Smith" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote in message
news:8l7t03$en1$[EMAIL PROTECTED]...
>
> "Donal K. Fellows" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote in message
> news:8l7a3q$vc$[EMAIL PROTECTED]...
> > In article <8l76ci$kdv$[EMAIL PROTECTED]>,
> > Christopher Smith <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> > > It wouldn't restart because of the corrupted data.
> >
> > But then why was that affecting unrelated systems?
>
> Erm ,the only system affected AFAIK was the propulsion and directional
> control.
>
> > The only
> > reasonable explanation I can think of is that it was all One Big
> > Database. But if that is the case, why would a divide by zero error
> > due to a mistake in one of the fields of a table crash it?
>
> *shrug*, ask the people who wrote it. A lack of basic bounds checking
> springs instantly to mind.
>
A simple NOT NULL might have helped. Maybe I could do consultancy for the
US Navy (with my *huge* SQL knowledge - :-) )
> > Surely the
> > software should just page the operator to say that has a possible
> > consistency error and then continue to serve up all the valid data.
>
> Indeed, that's what it *should* have done.
Hmm, a rule, a trigger, anything. I find it hard to believe that a mission
critical app is **that** poorly written.
------------------------------
From: Tim Palmer <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: Re: Which Linux should I try?
Date: 21 Jul 2000 03:51:14 -0500
On Tue, 04 Jul 2000 09:15:23 GMT, cpliu <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>With all the hype about Linux, I'd like to give it a try.
You'll find that hipe is just about all thear is to LIE-nux.
>There are so
>many vendors on Linux, red hat, mandrake, caldera, TurboLinux, etc. Which
>one should I try? Are there any major differences? interface? How about
>compatibility between different venders?
Nonexistant. You cant' run a programmm from one distrobutian on another one.
>
>This must be a FAQ. Please give me a pointer or two before I get started.
>
>
>Thanks,
>
>
>CPLIU
------------------------------
From: "Stuart Fox" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Crossposted-To: comp.os.ms-windows.nt.advocacy
Subject: Re: Am I the only one that finds this just a little scary?
Date: Fri, 21 Jul 2000 08:49:46 +0100
"Mikey" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote in message
news:[EMAIL PROTECTED]...
> Thus Sprake Stuart Fox:
>
> > > >And
> > > >> the cause? It was traced back to someone entering a "0" in the
wrong
> > > >place
> > > >> in a PC in the stores - the resulting "divide by zero" error killed
the
> > > >> ship.
> > > >
> > > >So do explain to us all how a poor app is NT's fault?
> > > >
> > > A poor app is not NT's fault - that a poor app is able to crash the
> > machine
> > > it is running on, never mind the whole network, is NT's fault.
> >
> > It was never NT's fault. An app dying is an app dying, not matter what
OS
> > it's on. If the app that's controlling your ship dies, the ship is
> > uncontrollable. Doesn't matter what the OS does at this stage. And
there
> > was never any mention of blue screens/nt failure. It was always an app
> > failure.
>
> Actually, it could be NT's fault. I've had people run programs off of
> my NT server and when the program crashes, the server dies and needs a
> three finger salute. On my Linux/FreeBSD boxen, I've had user apps
> crash, but, because Unix/Linux is a *TRUE* multi-user system, the apps
> had no effect on the server performing it's task. The user just had to
> run their programs again, and the rest of the network goes on working.
>
Run programs? Like execute apps at the server or otherwise? If they're
just using the server as a file server (which most of "running apps" on NT
is), explain to me how accessing files can cause a server hang...
------------------------------
From: Tim Palmer <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: Re: Help with printer
Date: 21 Jul 2000 03:51:25 -0500
On Wed, 19 Jul 2000 22:19:39 -0400, Colin R. Day <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>Tim Palmer wrote:
>
>
>> >
>> >Are you, Tim Palmer, drooling on your keyboard?
>> >
>>
>> No the lienux poepal are the ones drueling because they wish they had Windo's.
>
>If I wish that I had Windows, then why do I not reinstall it on my computer?
>It's an OEM copy, so I can't use it for anything else.
>
Because it's not broaken like you LIEnux LIARS clame.
------------------------------
From: Tim Palmer <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: Re: Just exactly what IS Linux, anyway?
Date: 21 Jul 2000 03:51:35 -0500
On Thu, 20 Jul 2000 17:11:53 GMT, [EMAIL PROTECTED] <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
wrote:
>On 20 Jul 2000 02:42:38 -0500, Tim Palmer <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>>On Wed, 05 Jul 2000 18:52:55 GMT, [EMAIL PROTECTED]
><[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>>>On 5 Jul 2000 13:31:31 -0500, Leslie Mikesell <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>>>>In article <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>, Rich C <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>>>>>I have been concerned lately about certain attitudes in this newsgroup.
>>>>
>>>>Why? We don't all have to agree.
>>>>
>>>>>It seems that certain Linux "zealots," when confronted with the issue of a
>>>>>useability issue with KDE, Gnome, or whatever, argue that these components
>>>
>>> The "usability issue" with GNOME and KDE are pretty much manufactured.
>>> Most of the percieved problems with either have more to do with them
>>> not being exact clones of the current Microsoft interface more than
>>> any particular failing of either desktop.
>>>
>>>[deletia]
>>>
>>> AS far as neither being required to have a functioning drag & drop
>>> graphical desktop: that allows more end user freedom to determine
>>> for themselves what sort of desktop interface would be most suitable
>>> and it also allows genuine competition between diverse approaches to
>>> the same problem.
>>
>>
>>Freedom...you meen moar work!
>
> On a daily basis, my system is most certainly LESS work than
> yours being tuned specifically to my tastes and being rather
> automated with respect to some of it's frills.
>
Thats' only because your a FERAK that actually LIKES typing commands. all the normall
poepal out thear
hate Lixnu and will never give up Windo's just to use it.
>--
> Finding an alternative should not be like seeking out the holy grail.
>
> That is the whole damn point of capitalism.
> |||
> / | \
------------------------------
From: Tim Palmer <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: Re: Linux, easy to use?
Date: 21 Jul 2000 03:51:45 -0500
On Thu, 20 Jul 2000 20:45:30 -0400, Colin R. Day <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>Tim Palmer wrote:
>
>
>>
>> It was obsoleet when the 70s ended. And by the way, you mispelled "knowladgeibble"
>you fucking idiot!
>>
>
>It's "knowledgeable", and he was much closer than you.
You are an iddiot.
------------------------------
From: Tim Palmer <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: Re: Just exactly what IS Linux, anyway?
Date: 21 Jul 2000 03:51:56 -0500
On Thu, 20 Jul 2000 11:08:50 +0000, Jacques Guy <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>Tymm Pammar wrought:
>
>[spin]
>
>Nevva miend wot goud ol Tymm roguht, heerz trewth
>fowwx:
>
>Lie-nux sux
>
>butt...
>
>Win blowz!
No Win ruals!
>Wytch wood yew rartharav? Ahed jobb four frea, ore
>abloejob five err... four beeg bux?
I'd rather halve an OS that just work's, flawlissly,
the first time, rather than an OS you half to fiddel
with.
>
>PS. Mr Palmer's kind assistance in accessing his
>spell-checker is hereby gratefully acknowledged.
------------------------------
From: Tim Palmer <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: Re: I had a reality check today :(
Date: 21 Jul 2000 03:52:06 -0500
On Thu, 20 Jul 2000 12:44:32 -0400, Aaron R. Kulkis <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>
>
>The Ghost In The Machine wrote:
>>
>> In comp.os.linux.advocacy, Aaron R. Kulkis
>> <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
>> wrote
>> on Tue, 18 Jul 2000 22:31:40 -0400
>> <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>:
>> >
>> >
>> >Tim Palmer wrote:
>> >>
>> >> On Tue, 18 Jul 2000 02:44:36 -0400, Aaron R. Kulkis <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
>> >> wrote:
>>
>> [snip]
>>
>> >> >I can do the exact same thing on any modern flavor of unix, so, like
>> >> >do you have a point?
>> >> >
>> >>
>> >> "Moddern UNIX", now thear's an oxymorron.
>> >
>> >
>> > Unix Microsoft products
>> >
>> >First Multi-processing kernal 1970 1995
>> >
>> >tape backup utilities 1970 1998
>> >
>> >First GUI 1984 1990
>> >
>> >Cut and Past support in GUI 1984 1993
>> >
>> >Full networking support 1984 1995
>> >
>> >No differentiation between remote 1984 never implemented
>> > users and console users
>> >First Multi-user kernal 1970 never implemented
>> >
>> >Configuration changes w/o rebooting 1970 never implemented
Full perphireal support for No Yes
adcanced periphealls like
scanners, printers, etc...
Automatic hardware dittection
that work's the first time,
flawlissly No Yes
>>
>> 1998 or 1999; NT 4 no longer requires a reboot for simple
>> TCP/IP configuration changes. For what it's worth.
>>
>> >
>> >First non-fragmenting filesystem 1983 never implemented
>>
>> Note that 'fsdext2' allows readonly access to an ext2 volume
>> from a Win95 box. If Microsoft really cared, they probably
>> could hook in a replacement to NTFS or FAT.
>>
>> I don't know how much a bugaboo fragmentation is at this time
>> (it's clearly better for single files to be non-fragmented, but
>> how about file sets?) and I'd say a lot of the problem may be
>> related to usage patterns in some fashion.
>>
>> It gets complicated if one throws "lying" disks and "lying" boards
>> into the mix -- the CPU thinks most modern disks have 255 heads.
>> (Uh huh. Pull the other one. :-) ) And most disks are
>> variable-geometry anyway; more sectors on the outer cylinder.
>>
>> >
>> >RAID support (Redundant Array 1991 never implemented
>> > of Inexpensive Disks)
>> >full remote administration possible, 1970 never implemented
>> > including O/S install
>>
>> Hm...how did Unix have remote administration prior to Woolongong?
>
>Simple... dialin to a modem on a serial port.
>
>> Still, that only pushes it forward to the early 80's. (I have
>> an AT&T 7300 with Woolongong sockets, manufactured circa 1984 or
>> so, still operational AFAIK although I haven't fired it up lately,
>> with a whole 80 megs of disk space. Woohoo!)
>
>Nope... modems on serial ports were available LONG before the
>advent of Unix.
>
>>
>> >
>> >GUI's available 10 1
>>
>> Shared library support ? since Win 3.1
> 1988(?)
>
>>
>> Loadable driver modules ? unknown
> early 1990's.
>>
>> Virtual memory <-> file association ? 1995?
>> (mmap(), CreateFileMapping()) [*]
>
> 1970
> /dev/kmem
>
>>
>> SSH-type remote login capability ? ?
>> (i.e., zero-knowledge session
>> encryption coupled with some
>> sort of login program or widget)
>
> over-the-network remote login 1984 Still not implemented
> encrypted " -" - " " " mid 1990's Still not implemented
>
>>
>> Remote GUI 1984? 1998?
> 1984 ^
> Pass that crack pipe you're smokin'
>
>>
>> Remote login w/o password ? ?
>> from a trusted local site
> 1984 Still not implemented
> /etc/hosts.equiv
> $HOME/.rhosts
>
>> (i.e., using Kerberos)
>
>Kerberos is not necessary, it
>is merely a refinement of the idea.
>
>
>>
>> First multi-processOR kernel ? ?
>> (note that VMS had this ca 1986 or so;
>> presumably, Unix did, too)
>
> 1981.
> Local modifications to 4.2BSD
>
> George Goble, Electrical Engineering,
> Engineering Computer Network
> Purdue University.
> Host ec.ecn.purdue.edu
>
> First wide distribution outside of Purdue and
> Berkely campuses: 4.3BSD (1983)
>
>
> There used to be a file in /usr/jokes on ec machine
> "The VAX had a blow-out" to the tune of London
> Bridge is Falling Down, describing the atmosphere
> in the terminal rooms when George was debugging the
> 4.2BS
>>
>> First full journaling filesystem ? NTFS has meta only
>> (AIX claims its file system journals;
>> I don't know the details. Reiserfs
>> is available now for Linux.)
>
> First I saw on commercial Unix systems
> was in the mid 1990's. But these weren't
> cutting-edge installations, so I don't know.
>
>>
>> >
>> >Notice a pattern yet, spell-check boy?
>> >
>>
>> *smirk*
>>
>> Mind you, we have to be careful, as it is possible the Winvocates
>> will claim that "we did it better because we did it second".
>> (This is very debatable in its own right.)
>
>Usually the IEEE or equivalent standards are VERY well thought out
>(because of the nature by which these standards are developed).
>
>Microsoft tends to glance at these standards, then crumple them
>up and throw them into the fireplace, then claim that their
>high-school programmers' half-assed attempts at re-implementation
>constitute a "superior" solution.
>
>>
>> [.sigsnip]
>>
>> [*] this is a neat hack, but has to be applied with some care;
>> mmap() can put a region anywhere in the address space if
>> one is not careful, and that invalidates every pointer!
>>
>> --
>> [EMAIL PROTECTED] -- insert random misquote here
>
>--
>Aaron R. Kulkis
>Unix Systems Engineer
>ICQ # 3056642
>
>I: "Having found not one single carbon monoxide leak on the entire
> premises, it is my belief, and Willard concurs, that the reason
> you folks feel listless and disoriented is simply because
> you are lazy, stupid people"
>
>A: The wise man is mocked by fools.
>
>B: "Jeem" Dutton is a fool of the pathological liar sort.
>
>C: Jet plays the fool and spews out nonsense as a method of
> sidetracking discussions which are headed in a direction
> that she doesn't like.
>
>D: Jet claims to have killfiled me.
>
>E: Jet now follows me from newgroup to newsgroup
> ...despite (D) above.
>
>F: Neither Jeem nor Jet are worthy of the time to compose a
> response until their behavior improves.
>
>G: Unit_4's "Kook hunt" reminds me of "Jimmy Baker's" harangues against
> adultery while concurrently committing adultery with Tammy Hahn.
>
>H: Knackos...you're a retard.
------------------------------
From: Tim Palmer <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: Re: Some Windows weirdnesses...
Date: 21 Jul 2000 03:52:16 -0500
On 20 Jul 2000 00:24:56 -0400, [EMAIL PROTECTED] <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>On Tue, 18 Jul 2000 19:24:03 +0100, Russell Wallace
><[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>>The Ghost In The Machine wrote:
>>> Even the ungraceful shutdowns aren't too bad, if one uses something
>>> like reiserfs -- a full-fledged data-journaling file system.
>>> (Disclaimer: I don't have it on my system, so can't say from personal
>>> experience.)
>>>
>>> By contrast, FAT is flat. :-)
>>
>>FAT is one of the very few pieces of software I've ever come across that
>>I really trust. I've seen any number of DOS/3.1/W95/W98 machines
>>hard-shutdown due to power failures, crashes or whatever in the 12 years
>>I've been working with them, and FAT doesn't mind in the least - all
>>that happens is any uncommitted data was lost (obviously) and
>>CHKDSK/Scandisk sometimes finds some lost sectors (that wouldn't have
>>done any harm except waste a little bit of disk space).
>>
>
>When I used to run Windows 3.11, I would sometimes get "cross-linked"
>files. This means that the MS FAT implementation would sometimes mix
>files together! ScanDisk would "fix" the problem by truncating one
>of the affected files (usually the binary file that is impossible to
>fix by hand). Usually, these problems were only discovered after they
>were present for a long time. I've never had this problem on an ext2
>filesystem.
When i used to run Lienux, it woold sometimes crash, and it woold fsck for an
hour and a haff and haff
the fials woold get deleited. I pull the plug on Windos, and affter a short ScanDisk,
it come's back up,
no ploblem.
>
>--
>If a man commits sedition in the middle of the
>woods, and there are no cops around to arrest
>him, is he still a criminal?
------------------------------
From: Tim Palmer <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: Re: Student run Linux server.
Date: 21 Jul 2000 03:52:27 -0500
On 20 Jul 2000 01:52:09 -0400, [EMAIL PROTECTED] <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>On Tue, 11 Jul 2000 22:37:53 +0800, Aravind Sadagopan
><[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>>There is a nice way to educate students about Linux.. They will get
>>interested anyway because of a lot of things are challenging in the
>>Unix world.
>
>High school students don't care about what's challenging.
That's rite. They doan't nede Lixnu and they doan't want it eather.
>They just
>want to get their fucking credits, get as drunk as they can, fuck as
>much as they can, and leave. The only exceptions are the geeks, who
>probably already know all about Linux and have their own networks
>at home.
>
>>First to provoke them would setting up an IRC server, where they can
>>discuss things freely.
>
>There are X servers available for non-Unix platforms, such as Windows
>and MacOS.
...but nobody use's them because those plattforms alreddy halve GUI.
>These, and a PERL script (unlike WSH, PERL is free on both
>Windows and the Mac) that sends an "rsh" command to the server, could
>be used in conjunction with an X11 IRC client on the Linux machine
>that blows the pants off of mIRC.
*YAWN*
>Combine this with the freedom to
>connect to outside IRC servers, however detrimental to "education"
>the powers that be may perceive this to be. Note that you need a
>shitload of RAM on the server if there's only going to be one of
>them and you expect there to be 100 or more users on it at a time
>running graphical programs. You might also need multiple NICs.
>
>The Windows-using IRC freaks would want to know where they can
>download this IRC client. Tell them, and let them figure out
>for themselves that they need "Linux" to use it. When they
>ask what "Linux" is, point them to www.linux.org. Tell them
>that "it's going to replace Windows one day" or otherwise
>convince them that it's the latest cutting-edge technology
>and it'll soon be everywhere. Their ignorance of the fact that
>there is actually a social struggle going on over Linux and Windows
>will make them more likely to just accept that Linux "is the
>future".
Okay, it's offical, your an iddiot. Lixnu are not the future, and their not tecnicly
supirier. Their junk,
nad annyone who see's them will realize that.
>
>It's okay to allow them to know that the IRC client is running
>"over the network" and use this as a justification for them
>having to use a network protocol to download the files they
>downloaded with DCC.
>
>While you're at it, you could expose them to more Linux-only software
>that users might mistake for Windows software.
>
...and then dicide its cripe when they try to instal it.
>WARNING- You might want to actually test this stuff yourself before
>exposing it to users. Especially, make sure your network can handle
>this kind of traffic.
>
Lie-nux can't handall it.
>>Next things would be to find out who are logged on remotely and use
>>'talk' to chat with your friends.
>
>This is a little more difficult, as the users would have to be willing
>to learn a few Unix commands, and might be dealing with it through
>a crappy telnet client.
Woodn't want to make them tipe, now would ya?
>
>The few high schoolers that I've tried this with needed a BBS-like
>menu system to shield them from such difficult concepts as syntax.
>They couldn't figure out "talk username", but they could figure out
>how to type "talk", press enter (to run a shell script that is in
>their PATH but not a normal Unix user's), and answer a prompt for the
>username. They also never figured out that Ctrl+C ended the "talk"
>session.
>
>>The next thing can be to give students bandwidth to host
>>their own web pages with CGI/Perl PHP scripting.
>
>...and give them GIMP to create the pictures with, and let them know
>that the GIMP is Free Software, and tell them that it's as good
>as Photoshop, which they'll never have the money to see. High schoolers
>love to use image editors at school when no games are available. When
>they try to download it, they can find out that it needs "Linux". What
>a coincidence!
In other word's, lay to them.
>
>>Linux has the name
>>of being something 'cool' when compared to other unix counterparts
>>and its history originated from a student..stress the history
>>of the OS. Tell them that its the best development platform, It
>>supports a 100 programming languages, Imagine they can compile and
>>test their C programs from the server itself!
>...then get the school to teach a programming course geared towards
>writing games for Linux.
HA-HA! What a joak!
>High schoolers care more about games than
>most anything else. Once this course exists and the aforementioned
>mainframe-like setup is proven unfeasable for this kind of work (as
>far as I know, the X Window System does not include an X Sound System,
>and it'll become a nightmare if the students ever get around to writing
>more sophisticated 3D games and trying to display them over the network
>while hundreds of other users are using the bandwidth to display IRC
>clients), the school might actually allow (and even pay for) more
>Linux systems.
Yawn.
>
>With these students knowing how to write Unix programs but not knowing
>thing one about programming on Windows, you can direct them to the
>colleges that have Unix-oriented computer science courses and steer
>them away from Windows-loving colleges.
Allways polliticle, LIE-nux are.
>
>With a few Linux workstations, you could expose students to Linux
>music-making software, such as the stuff on the Linux Dance Music
>Project:
>
> http://sql.hitech.dk/ldmp/
>
>Programs like these cost some serious money on Windows.
No, program's way better than those (think Cakewock) cost
monny. The LIE-nux Danse Music Project is just more LIE-nux
crap.
>High
>school bands would snatch this stuff right up. In time, a Linux box
>might appear in the Music Department, depending on what music
>courses are taught at your school.
Whattever.
>
>> Lynx, pine will be a interesting change from bloated modern software.
>
>Network lag might make them seem slower,
Lie-nux can do that on it's own.
>and most users would have
>trouble understanding that the software is running on a remote machine
>(which is why you have to expose them to lots of graphical, Linux-only
>software that they might try to download for their home systems). I've
>also seen some Windows users actually try to click on the telnet window
>to try to control these programs.
>
>One hint though, unless you get a new telnet client for Windows, if
>you set the LINES environment variable to 23 (instead of the default
>24), and set the TERM environment variablt to vt100 (instead of the
>default "ansi") whenever the user logs in with TERM=ansi, the Windows
>telnet client will seem a lot less buggy (but not perfect).
>
>>I think the
>>only thing you might have to do is install the server and let htem
>>know abt it. They will automatically adapt and begin loving Linux
>
>The mistake you make is that you assume that high school students
>love to learn, while in reality, by that age the school system has
>taught them to despise learning.
>
>--
>Microsoft Windows. Garbage at your fingertips.
>
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