Linux-Advocacy Digest #841, Volume #28 Sat, 2 Sep 00 18:13:04 EDT
Contents:
Re: [OT] Public v. Private Schools ("Aaron R. Kulkis")
Re: [OT] Public v. Private Schools ("Aaron R. Kulkis")
Re: How low can they go...? ("Simon Cooke")
Re: [OT] Public v. Private Schools ("Aaron R. Kulkis")
Re: [OT] Public v. Private Schools ("Aaron R. Kulkis")
Re: How low can they go...? ("Simon Cooke")
Re: How low can they go...? ("JS/PL")
Re: [OT] Bush v. Gore on taxes (was: Re: Would a M$ Voluntary Split ...) ("Aaron R.
Kulkis")
----------------------------------------------------------------------------
From: "Aaron R. Kulkis" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Crossposted-To:
comp.os.os2.advocacy,comp.sys.mac.advocacy,comp.os.ms-windows.nt.advocacy
Subject: Re: [OT] Public v. Private Schools
Date: Sat, 02 Sep 2000 17:53:55 -0400
Rick wrote:
>
> [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
> >
> > On Fri, 01 Sep 2000 21:37:53 -0400, Rick <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
>wrote:
> > >[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
> > >>
> > >> On Fri, 01 Sep 2000 17:25:00 -0400, Rick <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
>wrote:
> > >> >"Aaron R. Kulkis" wrote:
> > >> >>
> > >> >
> > >> >> > Finally, vouchers. As many of you may have seen, there are now studies
> > >> >> > from three states indicating that minority students, particularly
> > >> >> > Hispanic and African-American, do better in private schools. I think
> > >> >> > vouchers are a great idea, *provided* that *extra* taxes are implemented
> > >> >> > to pay for them. The bad thing about vouchers is that the money for
> > >> >>
> > >> >> Why do you need *extra* taxes for vouchers, when you have just
> > >> >> stated above that the per-pupil costs of private schools are LOWER
> > >> >> than that of public schools (Primarily to lower salaries, reduced
> > >> >> red-tape and significantly smaller bureacracy).
> > >> >>
> > >> >
> > >> >First, private schools charge "more" per student.
> > >> >
> > >> >> > them, at present, comes out of public school budgets (so far as I
> > >> >> > know.)
> > >> >>
> > >> >> So what?
> > >> >>
> > >> >
> > >> >If you delete 25% of the public school budget, you might as well close
> > >> >public schools.
> > >>
> > >> Then close some schools.
> > >>
> > >> As a "stab in the dark": howabout ~ 25% of them.
> > >>
> > >
> > >How about fixing the parents and students instead?
> >
> > Such social engineering is unecessary. You can simply allow
> > those working poor that actually value education to have
> > access to it and allow the glorified juvenile detention
> > facilities to be just that and allow the rest of the city
> > to be undistracted from the process of learning.
> >
>
> It is necessary. Many, if not most, students have no sense of
> responsibility, especially in the K-12 systems. They have no sense of
> consequences. The working poor would have access to education it
> students got down to the business of learning. But they dont.
>
> > Vouchers allow those that do care but weren't born rich
> > to achieve this for their own children with a minimal
> > dependence on governmental beaurocracy.
> >
>
> Vouchers remove tax dollars from the public schools and move them to
> private schools. Period.
IN PROPORTION TO THE NUMBER OF STUDENTS WHO LEAVE, FUCKWIT!
> There is nothing wrong with most public school
> systems that a sense of consequence wouldnt solve.
Over the NEA's dead body....
> There are too many
> social safety nets in place today. People expect jobs. They expect to
> pass their courses, they expect life to be given to them.. as if its
> OWED to them. Its not.
Then fuck them, until they learn.
>
> > Besides, this doesn't address the issue of why a school
> > district's budget should be reduced in proportion to the
> > number of students they actually service.
> >
>
> Most school districts are under funded now. Removing funding only makes
> the problems worse.
Most districts are spend MORE money per pupil than privat schools in
the same locale that are getting SUPERIOR results.
MONEY is not the problem...the NEA *IS*.
>
> > >
> > >> >
> > >> >> If 25% of the kids leave the public schools through vouchers,
> > >> >> then exactly what is wrong with the public schools having their
> > >> >> budger reduced by 25%
> > >> >>
> > >> >
> > >> >At the present time, public schools are massively under-funded. Class
> > >>
> > >> Yet those private schools seem to do more with less.
> > >>
> > >
> > >No, they dont. Private schools have MORE $/student than public schools.
> >
> > This is disputed.
> >
>
> Check the budgets yourself. Especailly look at Charter schools and
> private schools which use tax subsidised vouchers. Compare them to your
> local school district budget.
In Michigan, they are typically $2,000 LESS than the public schools
which the children are leaving.
>
> > >Public schools have always done more eith less, especially K-12.
> > >
> > >> The real problem isn't the money being thrown at schools at all.
> > >>
> > >> >sizes are extremely large. If you want better education in public
> > >> >schools.. re-institute a students right to fail a course. Re-institute
> > >> >having the student take responsibility for their own actions.
> > >>
> > >> Inner city schools were still cesspools when children were
> > >> "free to fail" and one could point to plentiful examples.
> > >>
> > >
> > >
> > >Actually, they are not. It i smuch harder to fail students now. BTW, in
> > >what public school do teach?
> >
> > I think you are under the delusion that things have fundementally
> > changed within the last generation. They haven't really. It just
> > seems like the suburbanites are more aware of what's happening
> > elsewhere these days.
> >
>
> I am under no deslusions.
As if the delusional are in any position to make such a self-assessment.
>
> > I never commented on the present, but a past that had the same
> > problems despite an apparent relatively recent shift in policies.
> >
>
> Your demand for vouchers is a comment onthe present.
>
> > [deletia]
> > >> >Read your history. Your statement is untrue. People continue to buy
> > >> >"name-brand" consumer goods instead of saving. The country is at almost
> > >>
> > >> The voice of experience says otherwise.
> > >>
> > >
> > >What experience/ How many kids in school are wearing Puma, Adidas and
> > >all the other brand names instead of clothes 1/2 cheaper. How many high
> >
> > This is a simplistic analysis. Lesser upfront cost doesn't
> > necessarily equate into lesser cost over all. Some of those
> > 'half-cheaper' clothes last less than half as long. Athletic
> > shoes are the worst possible example you could have brought up.
> >
>
> Its an example... clothes, stereos, cars... all the same premise.
>
> > >scool kids have alost new or new cars? How many have almost full time
> >
> > In what alternate universe?
> >
>
> My classroom.
If you lie like this in class, Maybe you should be sued for educational
malpractice.
>
> > >jobs, but use that money for the latest "brand-name" stuff instead of a
> > >college fund?
> >
> > When I went to school the correlation actually quite closely
> > followed the trend of those who actually thought they would
> > be going to college.
> >
> > Although the one is not contingent on the other.
> >
>
> Do you go to school now? Are you aware of what happens in the
> primary/secondary classroom now? I am.
>
> > >
> > >> >full employment. Statistically, it is at full employment. People DO have
> > >> >more money to use for private tuition then they have had in the past.
> > >>
> > >> In the burbs, or where people actually have to work for a living?
> > >>
> > >> [deletia]
> > >
> > >.. and what do you call actually working for a living?
> > >
> > >Accountants actually work. So do bank employees, retail sails people,
> > >teachers, police, etc... as well as construction workers and other
> > >"manual" laborers.
> >
> > You don't sound as if you are describing any working class
> > neighborhood I or any of my acquaintences have had any
> > experience with.
> >
>
> maybe your experiences are the sum total of all knowledge. The woman
> that lives upstairs works in a fish market, her boyfriend works for the
> local electrical utility. Others work in laundromats, restarants and
> variuos other blue collar jobs... as well as white collar jobs.
>
> > It sounds more like some Yuppie suburb.
> >
>
> This i shte first I have described my neighborhood. I assure you it is
> not a yuppie place.
>
> --
>
> Rick
>
> * To email me remove theobvious from my address *
--
Aaron R. Kulkis
Unix Systems Engineer
ICQ # 3056642
I: "Having found not one single carbon monoxide leak on the entire
premises, it is my belief, and Willard concurs, that the reason
you folks feel listless and disoriented is simply because
you are lazy, stupid people"
J: Loren Petrich's 2-week stubborn refusal to respond to the
challenge to describe even one philosophical difference
between himself and the communists demonstrates that, in fact,
Loren Petrich is a COMMUNIST ***hole
A: The wise man is mocked by fools.
B: "Jeem" Dutton is a fool of the pathological liar sort.
C: Jet plays the fool and spews out nonsense as a method of
sidetracking discussions which are headed in a direction
that she doesn't like.
D: Jet claims to have killfiled me.
E: Jet now follows me from newgroup to newsgroup
...despite (D) above.
F: Neither Jeem nor Jet are worthy of the time to compose a
response until their behavior improves.
G: Unit_4's "Kook hunt" reminds me of "Jimmy Baker's" harangues against
adultery while concurrently committing adultery with Tammy Hahn.
H: Knackos...you're a retard.
------------------------------
From: "Aaron R. Kulkis" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Crossposted-To:
comp.os.os2.advocacy,comp.sys.mac.advocacy,comp.os.ms-windows.nt.advocacy
Subject: Re: [OT] Public v. Private Schools
Date: Sat, 02 Sep 2000 17:56:25 -0400
Charles Kooy wrote:
>
> Aaron R. Kulkis <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> <snip>
> > Left-wing social causes (global warming
> > propaganda)
>
> Uhm, what precisely is 'left wing' about global warming? I think the
> majority of people would refer to it as an issue that concerns everyone.
"global warming" is a NON-event that the Left is trying to use to
weaken the economies of capitalist economies.
> Nothing political about it.
You are very naive.
>
> ck
--
Aaron R. Kulkis
Unix Systems Engineer
ICQ # 3056642
I: "Having found not one single carbon monoxide leak on the entire
premises, it is my belief, and Willard concurs, that the reason
you folks feel listless and disoriented is simply because
you are lazy, stupid people"
J: Loren Petrich's 2-week stubborn refusal to respond to the
challenge to describe even one philosophical difference
between himself and the communists demonstrates that, in fact,
Loren Petrich is a COMMUNIST ***hole
A: The wise man is mocked by fools.
B: "Jeem" Dutton is a fool of the pathological liar sort.
C: Jet plays the fool and spews out nonsense as a method of
sidetracking discussions which are headed in a direction
that she doesn't like.
D: Jet claims to have killfiled me.
E: Jet now follows me from newgroup to newsgroup
...despite (D) above.
F: Neither Jeem nor Jet are worthy of the time to compose a
response until their behavior improves.
G: Unit_4's "Kook hunt" reminds me of "Jimmy Baker's" harangues against
adultery while concurrently committing adultery with Tammy Hahn.
H: Knackos...you're a retard.
------------------------------
From: "Simon Cooke" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Crossposted-To:
comp.lang.java.advocacy,comp.os.ms-windows.advocacy,comp.os.ms-windows.nt.advocacy
Subject: Re: How low can they go...?
Date: Sat, 02 Sep 2000 22:03:05 GMT
<[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote in message
news:[EMAIL PROTECTED]...
> >Service packs are the "quarterly updates" you're asking for, and they're
> >free.
>
> No they aren't. They're incomplete.
They're complete updates. They update everything that needs updating.
Si
------------------------------
From: "Aaron R. Kulkis" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Crossposted-To:
comp.os.os2.advocacy,comp.sys.mac.advocacy,comp.os.ms-windows.nt.advocacy
Subject: Re: [OT] Public v. Private Schools
Date: Sat, 02 Sep 2000 17:59:31 -0400
Rick wrote:
>
> Bob Germer wrote:
> >
> > On 09/01/2000 at 05:25 PM,
> > Rick <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> said:
> >
> > > At the present time, public schools are massively under-funded. Class
> > > sizes are extremely large. If you want better education in public
> > > schools.. re-institute a students right to fail a course. Re-institute
> > > having the student take responsibility for their own actions.
> >
> > Debunking this makes everything you post fit only for the bit bucket.
> >
> > My wife was a teacher in an inner city public school in a rust belt city
> > for 31 years. I kept many of her class records for her on my computers
> > beginning in 1984. I have every class list from that time until she
> > retired two years ago. AT NO TIME DID SHE EVER HAVE MORE THAN 22 STUDENTS.
> > In five of those years her class size was less than 15. Any time ANY
> > teacher in that district had more than 17 students, he or she had a FULL
> > TIME, qualified, classroom aide.
> >
>
> I wouldbeinterested to know what the teacher/student ratio is NOW.
What...as if this would contradict 25 years of the data which proves
that you are a liar.
--
Aaron R. Kulkis
Unix Systems Engineer
ICQ # 3056642
I: "Having found not one single carbon monoxide leak on the entire
premises, it is my belief, and Willard concurs, that the reason
you folks feel listless and disoriented is simply because
you are lazy, stupid people"
J: Loren Petrich's 2-week stubborn refusal to respond to the
challenge to describe even one philosophical difference
between himself and the communists demonstrates that, in fact,
Loren Petrich is a COMMUNIST ***hole
A: The wise man is mocked by fools.
B: "Jeem" Dutton is a fool of the pathological liar sort.
C: Jet plays the fool and spews out nonsense as a method of
sidetracking discussions which are headed in a direction
that she doesn't like.
D: Jet claims to have killfiled me.
E: Jet now follows me from newgroup to newsgroup
...despite (D) above.
F: Neither Jeem nor Jet are worthy of the time to compose a
response until their behavior improves.
G: Unit_4's "Kook hunt" reminds me of "Jimmy Baker's" harangues against
adultery while concurrently committing adultery with Tammy Hahn.
H: Knackos...you're a retard.
------------------------------
From: "Aaron R. Kulkis" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Crossposted-To:
comp.os.os2.advocacy,comp.sys.mac.advocacy,comp.os.ms-windows.nt.advocacy
Subject: Re: [OT] Public v. Private Schools
Date: Sat, 02 Sep 2000 18:00:50 -0400
Rick wrote:
>
> "Aaron R. Kulkis" wrote:
> >
> > Rick wrote:
> > >
> > > "Aaron R. Kulkis" wrote:
> > > >
> > >
> > > > > Finally, vouchers. As many of you may have seen, there are now studies
> > > > > from three states indicating that minority students, particularly
> > > > > Hispanic and African-American, do better in private schools. I think
> > > > > vouchers are a great idea, *provided* that *extra* taxes are implemented
> > > > > to pay for them. The bad thing about vouchers is that the money for
> > > >
> > > > Why do you need *extra* taxes for vouchers, when you have just
> > > > stated above that the per-pupil costs of private schools are LOWER
> > > > than that of public schools (Primarily to lower salaries, reduced
> > > > red-tape and significantly smaller bureacracy).
> > > >
> > >
> > > First, private schools charge "more" per student.
> >
> > Yeah, there are a couple of HIGHLY SELECT blue-blood boarding
> > schools like Andover that cost more than the tuition at most
> > colleges...
> >
> > But, by and large, the OVERWHELMING majority of private schools
> > have lower per-pupil costs.
> >
> > Reduced management overhead is the primary reason.
> >
>
> Really? Do you know the typical management structure of a typical public
> school? Its very light. Very.
In most school districts, 30-50% of the per-pupil cost is MANAGMENT
OVERHEAD.
For someone who is a teacher, Rick really is fucking CLUELESS.
--
Aaron R. Kulkis
Unix Systems Engineer
ICQ # 3056642
I: "Having found not one single carbon monoxide leak on the entire
premises, it is my belief, and Willard concurs, that the reason
you folks feel listless and disoriented is simply because
you are lazy, stupid people"
J: Loren Petrich's 2-week stubborn refusal to respond to the
challenge to describe even one philosophical difference
between himself and the communists demonstrates that, in fact,
Loren Petrich is a COMMUNIST ***hole
A: The wise man is mocked by fools.
B: "Jeem" Dutton is a fool of the pathological liar sort.
C: Jet plays the fool and spews out nonsense as a method of
sidetracking discussions which are headed in a direction
that she doesn't like.
D: Jet claims to have killfiled me.
E: Jet now follows me from newgroup to newsgroup
...despite (D) above.
F: Neither Jeem nor Jet are worthy of the time to compose a
response until their behavior improves.
G: Unit_4's "Kook hunt" reminds me of "Jimmy Baker's" harangues against
adultery while concurrently committing adultery with Tammy Hahn.
H: Knackos...you're a retard.
------------------------------
From: "Simon Cooke" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Crossposted-To:
comp.lang.java.advocacy,comp.os.ms-windows.advocacy,comp.os.ms-windows.nt.advocacy
Subject: Re: How low can they go...?
Date: Sat, 02 Sep 2000 22:08:05 GMT
`
"`T. Max Devlin" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote in message ne
ws:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
> Who is your employer? Does your employer receive any consideration or
> compensation whatsoever from Microsoft pursuant to your employment?
> Have you ever been contacted by or been in contact with any employee of
> Microsoft corporations, directly? Have you or your employer ever made a
> financial agreement with Microsoft corporation outside of end-user
> licensing of software? What was the complete scope and character
> (including all particular clauses) of any non-end-user licensing or
> other agreements with Microsoft corporation? Are you now, or have you
> ever been, an astroturfer?
Who do you work for, Max? Sun? RedHat? VA Linux? You're sure spreading a lot
of your own astroturf.
Simon
------------------------------
From: "JS/PL" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Crossposted-To:
comp.lang.java.advocacy,comp.os.ms-windows.advocacy,comp.os.ms-windows.nt.advocacy
Subject: Re: How low can they go...?
Date: Sat, 2 Sep 2000 18:05:32 -0400
"T. Max Devlin" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> >Some oems
> >went for that particular deal, but none were ever forced to do it, it was
> >one of three options OEM's could choose to negotiate.
>
> You're full of sheep-dip, as usual. Economic realities forced them to
> do it,
How so?
> ><quote>
> >Microsoft began offering per processor licenses at some point in the late
> >1980s at the request of OEMs [...]
>
> That's enough of that; I'm already getting dizzy from all the spin.
> Could you document these "requests"? They'd have to have been pretty
> strong and frequent, considering how entirely locked-in to a monopoly it
> made the OEMs, I figure. Do you have *any* documentary support, or even
> contemporaneous discussion (outside Microsoft pronouncements) to support
> this 'request of the OEMs'? Yes, we know cliff's-edge pricing made it
> cheaper for them to buy 120% Windows instead of 99% Windows; that's the
> point.
Since you know there was "cliff edge" pricing between the per processor
license deals and the several other deals MS offered, (e.g. per machine, per
windows copy)and since the operating system was/is about 3% of the total
price of a system, what was the difference in prices between the various
deals Max? And what effect did those differences impose on the final price
of a system?
You don't even know do you, yet your using it.
------------------------------
From: "Aaron R. Kulkis" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Crossposted-To:
comp.os.os2.advocacy,comp.sys.mac.advocacy,comp.os.ms-windows.nt.advocacy
Subject: Re: [OT] Bush v. Gore on taxes (was: Re: Would a M$ Voluntary Split ...)
Date: Sat, 02 Sep 2000 18:02:50 -0400
Gary Hallock wrote:
>
> "Aaron R. Kulkis" wrote:
>
> >
> > Are you *sure* that a non-celebrity is incapable of asking
> > simple questions?
> >
>
> Sure, a non-celebrity can ask simple questions. But the results are likely
> to be significantly different. Ever hear of the uncertainty principle?
Heisenberg's principle is about subatomic particles, not the
response to "Can you tell me the name of the current Vice President
of the country?"
> >
> > > Don't you think that affects the results?
> >
> > What...do you think Jay induces stupidity on people he meets?
> >
>
> No, but he does induce people to provide stupid answers.
Why would he need to, when there are so many genuinely stupid
people roaming around?
>
> Gary
--
Aaron R. Kulkis
Unix Systems Engineer
ICQ # 3056642
I: "Having found not one single carbon monoxide leak on the entire
premises, it is my belief, and Willard concurs, that the reason
you folks feel listless and disoriented is simply because
you are lazy, stupid people"
J: Loren Petrich's 2-week stubborn refusal to respond to the
challenge to describe even one philosophical difference
between himself and the communists demonstrates that, in fact,
Loren Petrich is a COMMUNIST ***hole
A: The wise man is mocked by fools.
B: "Jeem" Dutton is a fool of the pathological liar sort.
C: Jet plays the fool and spews out nonsense as a method of
sidetracking discussions which are headed in a direction
that she doesn't like.
D: Jet claims to have killfiled me.
E: Jet now follows me from newgroup to newsgroup
...despite (D) above.
F: Neither Jeem nor Jet are worthy of the time to compose a
response until their behavior improves.
G: Unit_4's "Kook hunt" reminds me of "Jimmy Baker's" harangues against
adultery while concurrently committing adultery with Tammy Hahn.
H: Knackos...you're a retard.
------------------------------
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