Linux-Advocacy Digest #910, Volume #27 Mon, 24 Jul 00 10:13:07 EDT
Contents:
Linux User Groups - What is going on? (Jim Smith)
Re: If Microsoft starts renting apts (was: If Microsoft starts renting
apps) (Clell A. Harmon)
Re: If Microsoft starts renting apts (was: If Microsoft starts renting
apps) (Clell A. Harmon)
Re: If Microsoft starts renting apts (was: If Microsoft starts renting
apps) (Clell A. Harmon)
Re: Just curious, how do I do this in Windows? ("David Brown")
Re: Just curious, how do I do this in Windows? ("David Brown")
Re: BASIC == Beginners language (Was: Just curious.... ("David Brown")
Re: Would a M$ Voluntary Split Save It? ("JS/PL")
Re: I had a reality check today :( (Albert Ulmer)
Re: Just curious, how do I do this in Windows? ("Spud")
Re: Vacuum, void, null... .NET (John Jensen)
Re: Yeah! Bring down da' man! ("Billy White Jr.")
Re: Linux User Groups - What is going on? (Christopher Browne)
Re: Linux User Groups - What is going on? ([EMAIL PROTECTED])
Re: The Failure of the USS Yorktown - alittle light relief (Nathaniel Jay Lee)
Re: Yeah! Bring down da' man! (John Jensen)
----------------------------------------------------------------------------
From: Jim Smith <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: Linux User Groups - What is going on?
Date: Mon, 24 Jul 2000 05:10:27 -0700
Hi,
I found the The Linux User Group HOWTO interesting, and would like to
know how, if at all, different LUGs address the core set of goals
mentioned:
- advocacy
- education
- support
- socializing
I am particularly interested in the education and support goals.
Also, do the different LUGs coordinate their activities? It seems that
some activities could be of interest to more than just the local LUG.
Thanks!
------------------------------
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (Clell A. Harmon)
Subject: Re: If Microsoft starts renting apts (was: If Microsoft starts
renting apps)
Date: Mon, 24 Jul 2000 12:13:09 GMT
Crossposted-To:
comp.os.ms-windows.advocacy,comp.os.ms-windows.nt.advocacy,alt.fan.bill-gates,soc.singles,alt.fan.rush-limbaugh
On Mon, 24 Jul 2000 00:38:00 -0400, "Aaron R. Kulkis"
<[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>> >you're not funny, you're just droll.
>>
>> See what I mean Aaron? You couldn't have written it, you use
>> words casually that you don't know the meaning of. To actually write
>> an amusing piece like the above is beyond you.'
>
>Never underestimate your opponent.
I would never underestimate you Aaron. I mean that's just not
possible.
------------------------------
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (Clell A. Harmon)
Subject: Re: If Microsoft starts renting apts (was: If Microsoft starts renting
apps)
Date: Mon, 24 Jul 2000 12:14:14 GMT
Crossposted-To:
comp.os.ms-windows.advocacy,comp.os.ms-windows.nt.advocacy,alt.fan.bill-gates,soc.singles,alt.fan.rush-limbaugh
On Mon, 24 Jul 2000 01:08:56 -0400, "Aaron R. Kulkis"
<[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>
>
>"Stephen S. Edwards II" wrote:
>>
>> Aaron R. Kulkis <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes:
>>
>> : > >> >I wrote it.
>> : > >>
>> : > >> No, really.
>> : > >
>> : > >Do I have to post a damn copyright notice?
>> : >
>> : > Steal one of those too?
>>
>> : you're not funny, you're just droll.
>>
>> Sorry Aaron. I read something similar to this way back in the days of
>
>How similar? I have never read any such item.
SURE you haven't.
>
>> Windows v3.1. It's anything but your concoction.
------------------------------
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (Clell A. Harmon)
Subject: Re: If Microsoft starts renting apts (was: If Microsoft starts renting
apps)
Date: Mon, 24 Jul 2000 12:15:13 GMT
Crossposted-To:
comp.os.ms-windows.advocacy,comp.os.ms-windows.nt.advocacy,alt.fan.bill-gates,soc.singles,alt.fan.rush-limbaugh
On Mon, 24 Jul 2000 01:27:21 -0400, "Aaron R. Kulkis"
<[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>> Sorry Aaron. I read something similar to this way back in the days of
>> Windows v3.1. It's anything but your concoction.
>
>Strange, I never saw any such text to which you are referring.
>My net-access ended when I finished college in 1989, and was not
>resumed until 1997.
Uh huh, SURE Aaron..
------------------------------
From: "David Brown" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Crossposted-To: comp.os.ms-windows.nt.advocacy
Subject: Re: Just curious, how do I do this in Windows?
Date: Mon, 24 Jul 2000 14:23:19 +0200
Perry Pip wrote in message >>
>>Why don't you just translate the C directly into VB?
>>
>>sub endian_flip (w as integer)
>> dim i as integer
>> dim temp as integer
>>
>> temp = w
>> w = 0
>> for i = 1 to 4 ' or 2 for 16 bit VB
>> w = w * &H100
>> w = w or (temp and &HFF)
>> temp = temp / &H100
>> next
>>end sub
>>
>
>That's nice but now you are using math. It won't work on a floating
>point value. For that you will need to either typecast it to an
>integer (does VB have typecasting??) or use a shift operation (does VB
>have have shift operations??).
I used maths to endian-swap an integer, which I think was reasonable. As I
said in another post, trying to work with the byte representation of a
floating point value is one of the things that is impossible (or at least
absurdly difficult) in VB.
>
>
>>Of course, neither C nor VB compares with the assembly version:
>> bswap eax ; Endian swap of 32-bit register
>
>Well for one, you just threw portability totally out the window, as
>that's an x86 specific instruction. I don't even know if the RISC
>architectures I work with (MIPS and Sparc) have such an
>intruction.
>You could, though, use #defines and multiple asm linkages
>in a portable c program. (Does VB even support asm linkages??)
>
With the first mention of VB, portability was gone. Most CPUs support some
sort of manipulations that can be used to make a much faster endian swap,
even if it is not as simple (although I suspect that the MIPS CPU, which is
capable of operating in either big or little endian mode, will have a simple
solution).
In speed-critical code, #defines and multiple asms are entirely suitable.
If you look at some of the key kernel code for Linux, some critical routines
are implemented in this way. If the code is compiled on an architecture for
which there is explicit asm code in the files, it uses that, otherwise it
falls back on the portable but slower C code.
No, VB does not support asm linkages. The nearest you get is DLLs, and the
overhead in the calling mechanism far outweighs the run-time of the routine.
>
>>Byte and bit manipulation is often far easier to write and understand, and
>>much smaller and faster, when written in assembly rather than VB or C.
>
>But not portable.
>
You can't have everything.
------------------------------
From: "David Brown" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Crossposted-To: comp.os.ms-windows.nt.advocacy
Subject: Re: Just curious, how do I do this in Windows?
Date: Mon, 24 Jul 2000 14:27:53 +0200
T. Max Devlin wrote in message
<[EMAIL PROTECTED]>...
>>(CHAR_BIT is a system-dependent constant that is the number of
>>bits in a char. Nowadays it's almost always 8, but using
>>Magic Numbers(tm) in one's code is almost always a Bad Thing(tm). :-) )
>
>I don't think you can trademark either of those; they're both in the
>Jargon File. Sorry.
>
>But I thought "nowadays", it would be 32 or even 64! What gives?
>
The number of bits in a "char" is almost always 8. Even when using a
unicode-based OS - the type for a unicode character would be "w_char". You
are thinking of the number of bits in an integer, which is dependant of the
natural size of an int for the CPU in question.
------------------------------
From: "David Brown" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Crossposted-To: comp.os.ms-windows.nt.advocacy
Subject: Re: BASIC == Beginners language (Was: Just curious....
Date: Mon, 24 Jul 2000 14:30:43 +0200
Aaron R. Kulkis wrote in message <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>...
>
>> Logo is a great language for beginners (but did you ever try Snail Logo
on
>> your Spectrum? It was terrible - it was so incredibly slow, as it was
>> written in Basic! Turtle Logo on the BBC was much better). Do you have
any
>> idea if there are free / cheap Logo packages for Windows? It would be
great
>> for intoducing people to some basic programming.
>
>
>Oh god, and interpreted language in which the interpreter is written
>in another interpreted language.
>
Yes - I said it was slow. The Turing principle in practice. Logo on the
BBC was *much* more useable.
------------------------------
From: "JS/PL" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Crossposted-To:
comp.os.os2.advocacy,comp.os.ms-windows.nt.advocacy,comp.sys.mac.advocacy
Subject: Re: Would a M$ Voluntary Split Save It?
Date: Mon, 24 Jul 2000 08:45:20 -0400
Reply-To: "JS/PL" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
"T. Max Devlin" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote in message
news:[EMAIL PROTECTED]...
> Said ZnU in comp.os.linux.advocacy;
> [...]
> >> Or how bout the CEO of Real Networks getting up as a witness to
> >> perjure himself with a tale of how Microsoft purposely broke his Real
> >> Player. Only to be found out as a liar who KNEW beforehand that it
> >> was a bug in his player which MS had recently informed him about.
> >
> >That isn't Microsoft evidence. What's this amazing Microsoft evidence
> >the judge ignored? Please, do tell.
>
> What's really funny is the naivete of people who look at this issue and
> believe that Microsoft's 'bug'........ snippage
It wasn't a bug in Microsoft software, it was in Real Player, the bug had
been fixed but the CEO chose to bring the old version as evidence to court.
As soon as MS pointed this out the court quickly moved on....
Oh and the liars stock price soon dropped significantly.
You see Max...the public knows the truth and has known all along.
------------------------------
From: Albert Ulmer <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: Re: I had a reality check today :(
Date: Mon, 24 Jul 2000 15:14:50 +0200
Hi Tim!
Tim Palmer wrote:
> >why do these "bullet proof" linux distributions have the propensity to
> >leave these core droppings littered about in the first place?
>
> Becauze they expect you to fix thear bugs for them. Lie-nux if for poepal that watn
>to play with script's
> all day. Windo's for poepal who want to get on with their lives.
I sure hope you get on with your spelling lessons...
------------------------------
From: "Spud" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Crossposted-To: comp.os.ms-windows.nt.advocacy
Subject: Re: Just curious, how do I do this in Windows?
Date: Mon, 24 Jul 2000 06:17:05 -0700
"David Brown" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote in message
news:8lhcdj$360$[EMAIL PROTECTED]...
>
> T. Max Devlin wrote in message
> <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>...
> >>(CHAR_BIT is a system-dependent constant that is the number of
> >>bits in a char. Nowadays it's almost always 8, but using
> >>Magic Numbers(tm) in one's code is almost always a Bad Thing(tm).
:-) )
> >
> >I don't think you can trademark either of those; they're both in
the
> >Jargon File. Sorry.
> >
> >But I thought "nowadays", it would be 32 or even 64! What gives?
> >
>
>
> The number of bits in a "char" is almost always 8. Even when using
a
> unicode-based OS - the type for a unicode character would be
"w_char". You
> are thinking of the number of bits in an integer, which is dependant
of the
> natural size of an int for the CPU in question.
No, he's thinking of the number of bits in a char, which can be 8, 9,
17, or even 172. And yes, there are platforms out there where chars
are _not_ 8 bits. This is why C doesn't define a char as having 8
bits, but has having CHAR_BIT bits - which is an implentation-specific
macro.
C's rules on these things are, in essence:
sizeof(char) <= sizeof(short) <= sizeof(int) <= sizeof(long), and each
must hold certain minimum ranges, among which are:
signed char: -127 to 127
unsigned char: 0 to 255
plain char: one or the other of the above
Note that these are _minimums_ and that a specific platform is quite
within it's rights to use a 9-bit char. Also note that even though a
char is a minimum 8 bits, a signed char is only required to handle 255
distinct values, not 256. IIRC, this is to support the -0 and +0
representations some platforms use.
------------------------------
From: John Jensen <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Crossposted-To:
comp.sys.mac.advocacy,comp.os.os2.advocacy,comp.os.ms-windows.nt.advocacy
Subject: Re: Vacuum, void, null... .NET
Date: 24 Jul 2000 13:25:50 GMT
Eric Bennett <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes:
: Some comments on the nothingness that is Microsoft .NET white paper:
: http://joel.editthispage.com/stories/storyReader$133
I got a kick out of Joel's essay, but I think there might be more to it.
Microsoft didn't invent "component-oriented" software engineering, but
they are hiring many of the people who did. The marketing people who
wrote the .NET introduction don't seem to have a handle on how to describe
this aspect of the initiative ... perhaps because MS has been perusing
"components" for so long.
For your amusement, one such researcher (Clemens Szyperski) talked in
Software Development magazine about "DLL Hell":
http://www.sdmagazine.com/uml/beyondobjects/s9910bo1.shtml
snippet:
"Assembling components to construct software holds great promise
for the future of software engineering. But first, you must
overcome the challenge of versioning and components."
John
------------------------------
From: "Billy White Jr." <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Crossposted-To:
comp.sys.mac.advocacy,comp.os.os2.advocacy,comp.os.ms-windows.nt.advocacy
Subject: Re: Yeah! Bring down da' man!
Date: Mon, 24 Jul 2000 13:37:31 GMT
In article <avRe5.37215$[EMAIL PROTECTED]>, "Boris"
<[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> > The only thing we have here, is some whiney weenie pissing and moaning
> > about the ramblings of some marketing droids at Microsoft.
> Actually .NET is about new middleware: SOAP - which works both on local
> LAN and across
> Internet. It's kind of Component Object Model where components can talk
> to each other
> across Internet (smthg current DCOM can't do). COM/DCOM will go away:
> default protocol
> will be SOAP (which involves exchanging XML over HTTP).
> Web developers will have their C++, C#, VB, etc. code compile into
> intermediate format
> (the same for all those languages) which will run under common run-time
> environment. That
> approach will make business components (called by ASP pages) crash-prone.
> Because SOAP is W3 standard, it's not os/vendor specific. However, new
> run-time for VB,
> C++, etc. and other elements of development framework (MS Developer's
> Studio .Net edition)
> will be supplied for Windows only by MS.
>
> Boris
Oooh...you mean even newer and more exciting viruses?
--
x-no-archive: yes
------------------------------
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (Christopher Browne)
Subject: Re: Linux User Groups - What is going on?
Reply-To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Date: Mon, 24 Jul 2000 13:38:35 GMT
Centuries ago, Nostradamus foresaw a time when Jim Smith would say:
>Hi,
>
>I found the The Linux User Group HOWTO interesting, and would like to
>know how, if at all, different LUGs address the core set of goals
>mentioned:
> - advocacy
> - education
> - support
> - socializing
>
>I am particularly interested in the education and support goals.
>
>Also, do the different LUGs coordinate their activities? It seems that
>some activities could be of interest to more than just the local LUG.
A main way of "coordinating" activities tends to be through web sites
and mailing lists.
Here in the DFW area, we have both an active LUG and an active UNIX
Users Group. Both groups commonly tell their respective memberships
of major activities that the other organization organizes.
And by publishing meeting information in advance on organizational
web sites, this provides the ability for people further afield to
find out what's going on.
--
[EMAIL PROTECTED] - <http://www.ntlug.org/~cbbrowne/>
If you have a procedure with ten parameters, you probably missed some.
-- Alan J. Perlis
------------------------------
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Subject: Re: Linux User Groups - What is going on?
Date: Mon, 24 Jul 2000 13:31:29 GMT
The user groups that I have been to have addressed the core goals.
In article <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>,
Jim Smith <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> Hi,
>
> I found the The Linux User Group HOWTO interesting, and would like to
> know how, if at all, different LUGs address the core set of goals
> mentioned:
> - advocacy
> - education
> - support
> - socializing
>
> I am particularly interested in the education and support goals.
>
> Also, do the different LUGs coordinate their activities? It seems
that
> some activities could be of interest to more than just the local LUG.
>
> Thanks!
>
>
Sent via Deja.com http://www.deja.com/
Before you buy.
------------------------------
From: Nathaniel Jay Lee <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Crossposted-To: comp.os.ms-windows.nt.advocacy
Subject: Re: The Failure of the USS Yorktown - alittle light relief
Date: Mon, 24 Jul 2000 08:37:44 -0500
[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
>
> In article <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>,
> Nathaniel Jay Lee <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> >
> > In general, we're pretty stupid. And just look how far we've come.
> >
> > Believe me, if the aliens are out there, the only reason they haven't
> > contacted us is because they think, "Why bother? Look how stupid they
> > are. Even if they get here they won't be a threat."
>
> Something I saved from a usenet posting a few years ago. Enjoy. :-)
>
> It was kinda scratchy, but this is what I heard, more or less:
>
>
> "They're made out of meat."
>
> "Meat?"
>
> "Meat. They're made out of meat."
>
Priceless. That sounds like a story I once heard....
--
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Nathaniel Jay Lee
------------------------------
From: John Jensen <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Crossposted-To:
comp.sys.mac.advocacy,comp.os.os2.advocacy,comp.os.ms-windows.nt.advocacy
Subject: Re: Yeah! Bring down da' man!
Date: 24 Jul 2000 13:59:01 GMT
John C. Randolph <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes:
: Boris wrote:
: > Actually .NET is about new middleware: SOAP - which works both on
: > local LAN and across Internet. It's kind of Component Object Model
: > where components can talk to each other across Internet (smthg current
: > DCOM can't do). COM/DCOM will go away: default protocol will be SOAP
: > (which involves exchanging XML over HTTP).
: See "Portable Distributed Objects" (PDO).
: NeXT did this six years ago, and it worked. I expect microsquish to
: fuck this up as badly as they fucked up their GUI.
I don't know PDO, but I think one of the currents in Component research is
that message-based communications are less fragile than object->object
interatctions. Messages are important because they can be used to define
a contract (I give you this, you return that) independant of library
internals. The objects can change completely, as long as the messages are
honored.
John
------------------------------
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