Linux-Advocacy Digest #910, Volume #30 Fri, 15 Dec 00 17:13:05 EST
Contents:
Re: A Microsoft exodus! ("Aaron R. Kulkis")
Re: A Microsoft exodus! ("Aaron R. Kulkis")
Re: A Microsoft exodus! ("Aaron R. Kulkis")
Re: A Microsoft exodus! ("Aaron R. Kulkis")
Re: A Microsoft exodus! ("Aaron R. Kulkis")
----------------------------------------------------------------------------
From: "Aaron R. Kulkis" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Crossposted-To:
comp.os.ms-windows.nt.advocacy,comp.os.ms-windows.advocacy,comp.sys.mac.advocacy,comp.os.os2.advocacy,comp.unix.advocacy
Subject: Re: A Microsoft exodus!
Date: Fri, 15 Dec 2000 17:05:27 -0500
[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
>
> Aaron R. Kulkis writes:
>
> >>>> Steve Mading writes:
>
> >>>>>>>>>> Fortunately, I didn't make such a blanket statement. My comment
> >>>>>>>>>> was restricted to the use of hjkl for cursor movement. That's a
> >>>>>>>>>> rather small subset of vi.
>
> >>>>>>>>> Well, then we'll just have to disagree then. I don't think
> >>>>>>>>> that's true for the first time user who hasn't gotten any
> >>>>>>>>> preconcieved notions from using other editors first. You think
> >>>>>>>>> it is.
>
> >>>>>>>> Are you saying that the first-time user *will* know that hjkl
> >>>>>>>> moves the cursor around???
>
> >>>>>>> No, I'm not.
>
> >>>>>> Then where did your "You think it is" come from?
>
> >>>>> Sorry, I assumed that when you write things, you mean them.
>
> >>>> What did I allegedly write that made you say "You think it is"?
>
> >>>>> There I go being presumptuous again.
>
> >>>> More like a reading comprehension problem on your part. You also thought
> >>>> that Aaron wrote that nothing is intuitive.
>
> >>> Tholen...
> >>> when you finally realize how utterly worthless your life is...
> >>> remember to slit lengthwise.
>
> >> Kulkis, when you finally realize how utterly worthless your invective
> >> is, remember to come back here and apologize.
>
> > Tholen...
> >
> > When you finally realize how utterly worthless your life is...
> > remember to slit lengthwise.
>
> Kulkis, when you finally realize how utterly worthless your invective
> is, remember to come back here and apologize.
>
> > Or maybe you can offer yourself to one of the local Hawaiian volcano gods.
>
> Or maybe you can learn to develop a civil tongue. I won't hold my breath.
Tholen....
it's YOU who should be apologizing. Now remember Dave...
when you finally realize how utterly worthless your life is...
remember to slit lengthwise.
--
Aaron R. Kulkis
Unix Systems Engineer
DNRC Minister of all I survey
ICQ # 3056642
H: "Having found not one single carbon monoxide leak on the entire
premises, it is my belief, and Willard concurs, that the reason
you folks feel listless and disoriented is simply because
you are lazy, stupid people"
I: Loren Petrich's 2-week stubborn refusal to respond to the
challenge to describe even one philosophical difference
between himself and the communists demonstrates that, in fact,
Loren Petrich is a COMMUNIST ***hole
J: Other knee_jerk reactionaries: billh, david casey, redc1c4,
The retarded sisters: Raunchy (rauni) and Anencephielle (Enielle),
also known as old hags who've hit the wall....
A: The wise man is mocked by fools.
B: Jet Silverman plays the fool and spews out nonsense as a
method of sidetracking discussions which are headed in a
direction that she doesn't like.
C: Jet Silverman claims to have killfiled me.
D: Jet Silverman now follows me from newgroup to newsgroup
...despite (C) above.
E: Jet is not worthy of the time to compose a response until
her behavior improves.
F: Unit_4's "Kook hunt" reminds me of "Jimmy Baker's" harangues against
adultery while concurrently committing adultery with Tammy Hahn.
G: Knackos...you're a retard.
------------------------------
From: "Aaron R. Kulkis" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Crossposted-To:
comp.os.ms-windows.nt.advocacy,comp.os.ms-windows.advocacy,comp.sys.mac.advocacy,comp.os.os2.advocacy,comp.unix.advocacy
Subject: Re: A Microsoft exodus!
Date: Fri, 15 Dec 2000 17:05:35 -0500
[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
>
> Aaron R. Kulkis writes:
>
> >>>> Les Mikesell writes:
>
> >>>>>>>> Are you saying that the first-time user *will* know that hjkl
> >>>>>>>> moves the cursor around???
>
> >>>>>>> The first time user won't have a concept of what a cursor is
> >>>>>>> or why you would want to move it around.
>
> >>>>>> On the contrary, the first-time vi user could have experience with
> >>>>>> other editors.
>
> >>>>> Yes, but they might not have a cursor that moves up or down.
>
> >>>> If it's a screen editor, chances are they do.
>
> >>>>> Or they might have used ksh with the vi edit mode, or less (an enhanced
> >>>>> more that uses vi-like keystrokes to browse through files).
>
> >>>> UNIX users are in the minority.
>
> >>>>>>> In the 70's and 80's, CPT dedicated wordprocessors were a big thing
> >>>>>>> and they represented a sheet of paper advancing past a typing line
> >>>>>>> on the screen so it looked and worked exactly like a typewriter.
>
> >>>>>> Were those the ABDick portrait mode machines?
>
> >>>>> I never saw an ABDick machine, but the CPT screen was tall
> >>>>> and narrow and displayed a full page of text, black characters
> >>>>> on a white page that moved up as you typed.
>
> >>>> The ABDick was also tall and narrow (portrait mode) and displayed a
> >>>> full screen of text, but it might have been a green screen. Come to
> >>>> think of it, we may have replaced our ABDick machines with the CPT
> >>>> machines. Never did catch on.
>
> >>>>>>> Literally, a white page scrolled up the screen as you typed. If you
> >>>>>>> needed to correct something you moved the page back down to the
> >>>>>>> typing line instead of moving the cursor to the text. Their claim
> >>>>>>> (of course) was that this was 'intuitive' to anyone who had seen a
> >>>>>>> typewriter.
>
> >>>>>> Of course, according to Aaron, nothing about a computer is intuitive.
>
> >>>>> Exactly.
>
> >>>> But do you or do you not agree with him?
>
> >>>>> Many younger people have probably never seen a typewriter
> >>>>> and would be very confused by the fact that you scroll down
> >>>>> to get the page to the right position on the typing line instead of
> >>>>> moving a cursor (which they probably have seen) up to the
> >>>>> the text in question.
>
> >>>> Younger people seem to be less confused by computers than older
> >>>> people with exposure to typewriters.
>
> >>>>>>> So, not even the direction of motion can be taken as something
> >>>>>>> you could guess, let alone the key that would invoke it. If you
> >>>>>>> think otherwise then you should admit that you have been
> >>>>>>> brainwashed into it.
>
> >>>>>> Fortunately, I don't think otherwise. Remember, my statement was
> >>>>>> that to use hjkl for cursor movement is not intuitive.
>
> >>>>> It is no more or less intuitive than any other keys might be, especially
> >>>>> given that at the time most keyboards did not have any special cursor
> >>>>> control keys.
>
> >>>> My statement wasn't applied to "at the time". I'm talking about now.
>
> >>> Tholen...
> >>> when you finally realize how utterly worthless your life is...
> >>> remember to slit lengthwise.
>
> >> Kulkis, when you finally realize how utterly worthless your invective
> >> is, remember to come back here and apologize.
>
> > Tholen...
> >
> > When you finally realize how utterly worthless your life is...
> > remember to slit lengthwise.
>
> Kulkis, when you finally realize how utterly worthless your invective
> is, remember to come back here and apologize.
>
> > Or maybe you can offer yourself to one of the local Hawaiian volcano gods.
>
> Or maybe you can learn to develop a civil tongue. I won't hold my breath.
Tholen....
it's YOU who should be apologizing. Now remember Dave...
when you finally realize how utterly worthless your life is...
remember to slit lengthwise.
--
Aaron R. Kulkis
Unix Systems Engineer
DNRC Minister of all I survey
ICQ # 3056642
H: "Having found not one single carbon monoxide leak on the entire
premises, it is my belief, and Willard concurs, that the reason
you folks feel listless and disoriented is simply because
you are lazy, stupid people"
I: Loren Petrich's 2-week stubborn refusal to respond to the
challenge to describe even one philosophical difference
between himself and the communists demonstrates that, in fact,
Loren Petrich is a COMMUNIST ***hole
J: Other knee_jerk reactionaries: billh, david casey, redc1c4,
The retarded sisters: Raunchy (rauni) and Anencephielle (Enielle),
also known as old hags who've hit the wall....
A: The wise man is mocked by fools.
B: Jet Silverman plays the fool and spews out nonsense as a
method of sidetracking discussions which are headed in a
direction that she doesn't like.
C: Jet Silverman claims to have killfiled me.
D: Jet Silverman now follows me from newgroup to newsgroup
...despite (C) above.
E: Jet is not worthy of the time to compose a response until
her behavior improves.
F: Unit_4's "Kook hunt" reminds me of "Jimmy Baker's" harangues against
adultery while concurrently committing adultery with Tammy Hahn.
G: Knackos...you're a retard.
------------------------------
From: "Aaron R. Kulkis" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Crossposted-To:
comp.os.ms-windows.nt.advocacy,comp.os.ms-windows.advocacy,comp.sys.mac.advocacy,comp.os.os2.advocacy,comp.unix.advocacy
Subject: Re: A Microsoft exodus!
Date: Fri, 15 Dec 2000 17:05:42 -0500
[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
>
> Aaron R. Kulkis writes:
>
> >>>> Steve Mading writes:
>
> >>>>>>>>> Neato. Meanwhile us poor humans have fingers that don't bend that
> >>>>>>>>> way. For us humans, to move the fingers 8 inches to the left
> >>>>>>>>> requires that the *wrist* slides over, which means the the whole
> >>>>>>>>> forearm is moving too, hinged at the elbow.
>
> >>>>>>>> My keyboard has its cursor keys on the right, at about the same
> >>>>>>>> distance from the home row as the Esc key.
>
> >>>>>>> Then it doesn't look anything like any keyboard I've ever seen.
>
> >>>>>> That's not my problem. You were the presumptumous one.
>
> >>>>> Yes, I admit that I presumed you were referring to a keyboard that
> >>>>> is actually out on the market somewhere,
>
> >>>> I am.
>
> >>>>> rather than some home-made thing,
>
> >>>> Hardly.
>
> >>>>> or some proprietary laptop one-of-a-kind layout.
>
> >>>> Hardly one-of-a-kind. I have no idea whether it's considered
> >>>> proprietary or not.
>
> >>>>> I also presumed you weren't lying.
>
> >>>> I'm not.
>
> >>>>> Admitedly, those presumptions could have been wrong.
>
> >>>> As well as your presumption that the Esc key is closer than the
> >>>> cursor keys.
>
> >>>>>>> The Escape key is close and easily whackable without
> >>>>>>> looking, and without looking you can get your fingers
> >>>>>>> right back to the home row without even feeling for the
> >>>>>>> keys, my kinestetic sense just knows where to go, because
> >>>>>>> I don't have to move the hand more than about 1/2 an inch,
> >>>>>>> and that's a stretch-forward motion rather than a swing-
> >>>>>>> sideways motion.
>
> >>>>>> The cursor keys are close and easily whackable without looking,
> >>>>>> and without looking you can get your fingers right back to the
> >>>>>> home row without even feeling for the keys, my kinestetic sense
> >>>>>> just knows where to go, because I don't have to move the hand
> >>>>>> more than about 1/2 an inch, and that's a stretch-backward motion
> >>>>>> rather than a swing-sideways motion.
>
> >>>>> You enjoy this game of repeating what I say, replacing words with
> >>>>> a fill-in-the-blank replacement.
>
> >>>> There is no enjoyment involved. I'm simply showing that the same
> >>>> situation applies to the cursor keys.
>
> >>>>> But there is one key difference:
> >>>>> What I said is actually universally true.
>
> >>>> Balderdash.
>
> >>>>> You are either lying or using some really unique keyboard layout
> >>>>> and not telling anyone.
>
> >>>> You just contradicted your "universally true" claim. Nevertheless,
> >>>> the layout is hardly "unique".
>
> >>>>>>> (Which is why it's easy to find the home row - just relax the
>
> >>>>>>>> Those letters aren't on the home row.
>
> >>>>>>> Yeah, the 'huh' was wondering how this relates to what I'm
> >>>>>>> talking about.
>
> >>>>>> You were talking about staying by the hjkl keys.
>
> >>>>> Do you seriously expect anyone to believe that it is just as
> >>>>> hard to find home row after stretching single fingers at a time,
> >>>>> up and down one row (as in "yuiopnm") as it is after moving to
> >>>>> the arrow keys?
>
> >>>> "My kinestetic sense just knows where to go."
>
> >>>>> You're daft.
>
> >>>> And now you're getting insulting. No surprise there, actually.
> >>>> It's not uncommon for people to resort to such language when
> >>>> they have nothing else.
>
> >>>>>> Irrelevant, given that I never stated otherwise.
>
> >>>>>>> hjkl is the second-most minimal movement pattern you can have (right
> >>>>>>> after 'jkl;').
>
> >>>>>> Except that three letters only provide three motions. You need four
> >>>>>> for a two-dimensional screen.
>
> >>>>> Learn to count.
>
> >>>> You're erroneously presupposing that I don't already know how to count.
>
> >>>>> How many characters are there in "hjkl" and "jkl;" ?
>
> >>>> jkl is only three letters.
>
> >>> Tholen...
> >>> when you finally realize how utterly worthless your life is...
> >>> remember to slit lengthwise.
>
> >> Kulkis, when you finally realize how utterly worthless your invective
> >> is, remember to come back here and apologize.
>
> > Tholen...
> >
> > When you finally realize how utterly worthless your life is...
> > remember to slit lengthwise.
>
> Kulkis, when you finally realize how utterly worthless your invective
> is, remember to come back here and apologize.
>
> > Or maybe you can offer yourself to one of the local Hawaiian volcano gods.
>
> Or maybe you can learn to develop a civil tongue. I won't hold my breath.
Tholen....
it's YOU who should be apologizing. Now remember Dave...
when you finally realize how utterly worthless your life is...
remember to slit lengthwise.
--
Aaron R. Kulkis
Unix Systems Engineer
DNRC Minister of all I survey
ICQ # 3056642
H: "Having found not one single carbon monoxide leak on the entire
premises, it is my belief, and Willard concurs, that the reason
you folks feel listless and disoriented is simply because
you are lazy, stupid people"
I: Loren Petrich's 2-week stubborn refusal to respond to the
challenge to describe even one philosophical difference
between himself and the communists demonstrates that, in fact,
Loren Petrich is a COMMUNIST ***hole
J: Other knee_jerk reactionaries: billh, david casey, redc1c4,
The retarded sisters: Raunchy (rauni) and Anencephielle (Enielle),
also known as old hags who've hit the wall....
A: The wise man is mocked by fools.
B: Jet Silverman plays the fool and spews out nonsense as a
method of sidetracking discussions which are headed in a
direction that she doesn't like.
C: Jet Silverman claims to have killfiled me.
D: Jet Silverman now follows me from newgroup to newsgroup
...despite (C) above.
E: Jet is not worthy of the time to compose a response until
her behavior improves.
F: Unit_4's "Kook hunt" reminds me of "Jimmy Baker's" harangues against
adultery while concurrently committing adultery with Tammy Hahn.
G: Knackos...you're a retard.
------------------------------
From: "Aaron R. Kulkis" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Crossposted-To:
comp.os.ms-windows.nt.advocacy,comp.os.ms-windows.advocacy,comp.sys.mac.advocacy,comp.os.os2.advocacy,comp.unix.advocacy
Subject: Re: A Microsoft exodus!
Date: Fri, 15 Dec 2000 17:05:51 -0500
[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
>
> Aaron R. Kulkis writes:
>
> >>>> Steve Mading writes:
>
> >>>>>> The Ghost In The Machine writes:
>
> >>>>>>> And then there are the laptops.... :-) Some of those can get
> >>>>>>> downright weird.
>
> >>>>>> Which is why Steve was being rather presumptuous.
>
> >>>>> I admit it - I was being presumptuous in assuming that if you had
> >>>>> some unique keyboard layout that was different, that you'd (1) be
> >>>>> honest enough to say so in this discussion,
>
> >>>> My keyboard layout is hardly unique. That it is different is hardly
> >>>> to be unexpected, given the sheer number of different keyboards out
> >>>> there.
>
> >>>>> and (2) realize that youi're being silly to argue the merits of key
> >>>>> layouts for editors based on a very unique situation that won't work
> >>>>> for others.
>
> >>>> You're once again being presumptuous, given that my situation is
> >>>> hardly unique.
>
> >>>>> I apologise for presuming you would be honest and forthcoming.
>
> >>>> I have been honest and forthcoming.
>
> >>>>> Now I know not to make that mistake again.
>
> >>>> Where is the alleged mistake in that presumption?
>
> >>> Tholen...
> >>> when you finally realize how utterly worthless your life is...
> >>> remember to slit lengthwise.
>
> >> Kulkis, when you finally realize how utterly worthless your invective
> >> is, remember to come back here and apologize.
>
> > Tholen...
> >
> > When you finally realize how utterly worthless your life is...
> > remember to slit lengthwise.
>
> Kulkis, when you finally realize how utterly worthless your invective
> is, remember to come back here and apologize.
>
> > Or maybe you can offer yourself to one of the local Hawaiian volcano gods.
>
> Or maybe you can learn to develop a civil tongue. I won't hold my breath.
Tholen....
it's YOU who should be apologizing. Now remember Dave...
when you finally realize how utterly worthless your life is...
remember to slit lengthwise.
--
Aaron R. Kulkis
Unix Systems Engineer
DNRC Minister of all I survey
ICQ # 3056642
H: "Having found not one single carbon monoxide leak on the entire
premises, it is my belief, and Willard concurs, that the reason
you folks feel listless and disoriented is simply because
you are lazy, stupid people"
I: Loren Petrich's 2-week stubborn refusal to respond to the
challenge to describe even one philosophical difference
between himself and the communists demonstrates that, in fact,
Loren Petrich is a COMMUNIST ***hole
J: Other knee_jerk reactionaries: billh, david casey, redc1c4,
The retarded sisters: Raunchy (rauni) and Anencephielle (Enielle),
also known as old hags who've hit the wall....
A: The wise man is mocked by fools.
B: Jet Silverman plays the fool and spews out nonsense as a
method of sidetracking discussions which are headed in a
direction that she doesn't like.
C: Jet Silverman claims to have killfiled me.
D: Jet Silverman now follows me from newgroup to newsgroup
...despite (C) above.
E: Jet is not worthy of the time to compose a response until
her behavior improves.
F: Unit_4's "Kook hunt" reminds me of "Jimmy Baker's" harangues against
adultery while concurrently committing adultery with Tammy Hahn.
G: Knackos...you're a retard.
------------------------------
From: "Aaron R. Kulkis" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Crossposted-To:
comp.os.ms-windows.nt.advocacy,comp.os.ms-windows.advocacy,comp.sys.mac.advocacy,comp.os.os2.advocacy,comp.unix.advocacy
Subject: Re: A Microsoft exodus!
Date: Fri, 15 Dec 2000 17:05:59 -0500
[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
>
> Aaron R. Kulkis writes:
>
> >>>> Les Mikesell writes:
>
> >>>>>>> Not true. What if you want to look for something ("Please find the
> >>>>>>> word "goose" in this document")?
>
> >>>>>> You don't use hjkl.
>
> >>>>> You do if you want to move the screen a line one way or the other
> >>>>> after finding the match.
>
> >>>> You can do that with control-U (for up) and control-D (for down), which
> >>>> actually have mnemonics.
>
> >>>>>>> Do that in traditional 'more' and you still have to scan
> >>>>>>> the page with your eyes once it comes up.
>
> >>>>>> Finding an occurrence of a string is a rather different matter from
> >>>>>> simply viewing a document. The latter was what he brought up.
>
> >>>>> No it isn't.
>
> >>>> Balderdash. I suggest you review the thread.
>
> >>>>> I almost always search for something when I view a document.
>
> >>>> What you almost always do is irrelevant. Viewing a document is
> >>>> what was brought up, not searching a document. By the way, you
> >>>> can search a document with grep.
>
> >>>>> Being able to do it the same way in the viewer as in an editor
> >>>>> makes the one you learned second intuitive.
>
> >>>> Only if you know beforehand that the two operate the same way.
>
> >>>>>>>> My point is that its action isn't intuitive.
>
> >>>>>>> To whom?
>
> >>>>>> To someone who hasn't used it before. Who else? Intuition
> >>>>>> doesn't apply to something that someone already knows.
>
> >>>>> Of course it does.
>
> >>>> I suggest you learn the definition of intuition. Knowing how to
> >>>> brush your teeth in the morning because you've been doing it for
> >>>> years doesn't mean it's now intuitive.
>
> >>>>> How can someone that doesn't know anything at all use a computer?
>
> >>>> By reading the manual. That doesn't involve intuition; it involves
> >>>> learning.
>
> >>>>>> You have a peculiar notion of intuition. Needing to know a bunch
> >>>>>> of things suddenly makes something intuitive.
>
> >>>>> Being able to re-use the same thing you already know in
> >>>>> another context makes the subsequent one intuitive.
>
> >>>> How many previous editors use hjkl for cursor movement like vi?
>
> >>>>> Vi lets you re-use almost everything you learn in many different
> >>>>> ways.
>
> >>>> I learned to use Alt-C to mark a block column; vi doesn't let me
> >>>> re-use that. I learned to use Alt-W to write a buffer to disk;
> >>>> vi doesn't let me re-use that. I learned to use Alt-X to exit
> >>>> the editor; vi doesn't let me re-use that. I learned to use the
> >>>> Home key to go to the top of the screen; vi doesn't let me re-use
> >>>> that. Need I go on?
>
> >>>>>>> If you stick '$' in where a character or character mover could go -
> >>>>>>> it means eoln, if you stick it where a line number could go - it
> >>>>>>> means last line. It's 100% consistent.
>
> >>>>>> You mean the $ never means the dollar sign?
>
> >>>>> Not in the range/motion part of a command.
>
> >>>> So in other parts, it could be inconsistent.
>
> >>>>>>> In the statement :1,$...something... the '$' is being used in the
> >>>>>>> place of a line number.
>
> >>>>>> Thus the symbol is overloaded, and not consistent.
>
> >>>>> But the meanings have something in common so it is consistent.
> >>>>> Note how our use of consistent is overloaded and not consistent.
>
> >>>> Not consistent with one another. Your use could be erroneous.
>
> >>>>> We do this all the time and find it easier than remembering a
> >>>>> different symbol for every nuance of meaning.
>
> >>>> But you need to remember a different meaning.
>
> >>>>>>>> Is 4dk a special case?
>
> >>>>>>> It fits the generic pattern: {number}{command}{movement}
>
> >>>>>> I see you missed my point.
>
> >>>>> I did as well.
>
> >>>> Glad you agree.
>
> >>>>> What point? It re-uses the same information you learned for
> >>>>> every other vi command.
>
> >>>> The key words here are "you learned".
>
> >>>>>>>>> Carriage-returns are control-M characters
>
> >>>>>>>> So one might expect to enter a control-M into the document by typing
> >>>>>>>> control-M. Doesn't work. Oh, so you need a prefix. Now, what is so
> >>>>>>>> intuitive about control-V as the prefix? A UNIX novice might expect
> >>>>>>>> the backslash to be used as the prefix.
>
> >>>>>>> Ctrl-V is common in many other unix interactive tools.
>
> >>>>>> Backslash is common in many other UNIX applications.
>
> >>>>> Backslash is the 'high level' escape actually seen by application
> >>>>> level input and a backslash preceding the end-of-line typically
> >>>>> means the app should ignore the line end and consider the next
> >>>>> line a continuation.
>
> >>>> That there might be different levels of escape is also not intuitive.
>
> >>>>> The control-V is normally the 'lnext' character in the tty input
> >>>>> subsystem below application level.
>
> >>>> The average user isn't going to know about tty input subsystems.
>
> >>>>> For example you can input a literal control-C or control-Z
> >>>>> into an application through the keyboard by preceding with
> >>>>> the control-V, even though they would normally generate
> >>>>> a signal at the OS level.
>
> >>>> The average user isn't going to know about signals at the OS level.
>
> >>>>> Vi is actually doing raw input and is in control of this escape
> >>>>> mechanism so it doesn't have to match the OS 'lnext' character,
> >>>>> but since the function is exactly the same, this is yet another
> >>>>> place vi does the intuitive thing and re-uses what you know in
> >>>>> another context.
>
> >>>> You're presupposing knowledge of tty input subsystems and OS signals.
>
> >>>>>> Do you consider yourself a UNIX novice?
>
> >>>>> Why would that matter?
>
> >>>> Intuition doesn't apply to people who already have experience.
>
> >>>>> A novice has less chance to re-use knowledge in intuitive ways.
>
> >>>> A novice has a greater chance to rely on intuition.
>
> >>>>>>> It's mnemonic is "verbatim", as in, "Do this next character verbatim,
> >>>>>>> ignoring any special meaning it may have."
>
> >>>>>> And do you consider the mnemonic intuitive?
>
> >>>>> Mnemonics are usually made up after the fact, but they are
> >>>>> as intuitive as anything else.
>
> >>>> Are you suggesting that control-U and control-D were chosen before
> >>>> the "up" and "down" mnemonics were made up?
>
> >>> Tholen...
> >>> when you finally realize how utterly worthless your life is...
> >>> remember to slit lengthwise.
>
> >> Kulkis, when you finally realize how utterly worthless your invective
> >> is, remember to come back here and apologize.
>
> > Tholen...
> >
> > When you finally realize how utterly worthless your life is...
> > remember to slit lengthwise.
>
> Kulkis, when you finally realize how utterly worthless your invective
> is, remember to come back here and apologize.
>
> > Or maybe you can offer yourself to one of the local Hawaiian volcano gods.
>
> Or maybe you can learn to develop a civil tongue. I won't hold my breath.
Tholen....
it's YOU who should be apologizing. Now remember Dave...
when you finally realize how utterly worthless your life is...
remember to slit lengthwise.
--
Aaron R. Kulkis
Unix Systems Engineer
DNRC Minister of all I survey
ICQ # 3056642
H: "Having found not one single carbon monoxide leak on the entire
premises, it is my belief, and Willard concurs, that the reason
you folks feel listless and disoriented is simply because
you are lazy, stupid people"
I: Loren Petrich's 2-week stubborn refusal to respond to the
challenge to describe even one philosophical difference
between himself and the communists demonstrates that, in fact,
Loren Petrich is a COMMUNIST ***hole
J: Other knee_jerk reactionaries: billh, david casey, redc1c4,
The retarded sisters: Raunchy (rauni) and Anencephielle (Enielle),
also known as old hags who've hit the wall....
A: The wise man is mocked by fools.
B: Jet Silverman plays the fool and spews out nonsense as a
method of sidetracking discussions which are headed in a
direction that she doesn't like.
C: Jet Silverman claims to have killfiled me.
D: Jet Silverman now follows me from newgroup to newsgroup
...despite (C) above.
E: Jet is not worthy of the time to compose a response until
her behavior improves.
F: Unit_4's "Kook hunt" reminds me of "Jimmy Baker's" harangues against
adultery while concurrently committing adultery with Tammy Hahn.
G: Knackos...you're a retard.
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