Linux-Advocacy Digest #716, Volume #29 Wed, 18 Oct 00 00:13:03 EDT
Contents:
Re: Why is MS copying Sun??? ("JS/PL")
Re: Astroturfing ("Chad Myers")
Re: Why the Linonuts fear me ("Bobby D. Bryant")
Re: Astroturfing ("Chad Myers")
Re: Claire Lynn (Goldhammer)
Re: Astroturfing ("Les Mikesell")
Re: Linux 2.4 mired in delays as Compaq warns of lack of momentum (.)
Re: Astroturfing ("Bobby D. Bryant")
Re: claire_lynn = "S"? ("Bobby D. Bryant")
Re: Why is MS copying Sun??? (T. Max Devlin)
Re: Why is MS copying Sun??? (T. Max Devlin)
Re: Astroturfing ("Erik Funkenbusch")
Re: Is there a MS Word (or substitute) for Linux? ("Les Mikesell")
Re: Why is MS copying Sun??? (John Lockwood)
Re: Advocacy NGs == Trollvilles ("Bobby D. Bryant")
Re: Why is MS copying Sun??? (Darin Johnson)
Re: Why is MS copying Sun??? ("Simon Cooke")
Re: Why is MS copying Sun??? ("JS/PL")
Re: Why is MS copying Sun??? ("Erik Funkenbusch")
----------------------------------------------------------------------------
From: "JS/PL" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Crossposted-To: comp.os.ms-windows.nt.advocacy,comp.lang.java.advocacy
Subject: Re: Why is MS copying Sun???
Date: Tue, 17 Oct 2000 23:38:12 -0400
Reply-To: "JS/PL" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
"Les Mikesell" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote in message
> I see. I guess the taxpayers could have saved a lot of money by just
> asking your opinion instead..
It's not the taxpayers who wanted the case, but at least the DOJ could have
asked some of the consumers that the anti-trust laws were written for
instead of just talking to a few disgruntled Microsoft competitors.
The states just sent a bill to the DOJ for $15,000,000 along with a few
choice words about fucking up the case by expanding it way beyond the
original scope, and (succesfully) protesting the remedy that will never fly
on appeal (breakup). So they basicly wasted at least 15 million dollars
trying to save the poor consumer 20 bucks on his OS and nothing of
significance will have been accomplished when it's all said and done, except
probably another 30 million + spent on lawyers instead of food and education
for the poor.
I particularly like this quote:
"Janet Reno may save me 20 bucks on Windows, but what about the 20 thousand
she lost me in my 401k?"
Michael Miller of Technology Investment Newsletter, ABC Evening News, June 7
All the other pro-ms quotes are here:
http://quotes.dynip.com/
------------------------------
From: "Chad Myers" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Crossposted-To: comp.os.ms-windows.nt.advocacy
Subject: Re: Astroturfing
Date: Wed, 18 Oct 2000 03:26:14 GMT
"lyttlec" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote in message
news:[EMAIL PROTECTED]...
> Erik Funkenbusch wrote:
> >
> > "lyttlec" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote in message
> > news:[EMAIL PROTECTED]...
> > > In the bookstores the new books have "MCSP" Microsoft Certified
> > > Solutions Provider or Microsoft Certified Software Professional, "MCDBA"
> > > Microsoft Certified Data Base Administrator, "MSNA" Microsoft Certified
> > > Network Administrator. The older books still show MSCE. But it doesn't
> > > matter much what MS says. Just don't call yourself an Engineer on your
> > > business card if you go into consulting.
> >
> > MCSP is a different certification than MCSE. MCSP is a certificaiton for
> > management if I recall correctly, while the MSNA is limited only to
> > networking versus Windows support, etc...
> MCSP is being used on the programming language books that used to show
> MCSE. i.e VB, VC++. Perhaps its just a marketing thing to get people to
> pay more money for 4 letters of the alphabet.
lyttlec, when do you plan on telling the truth? Ever?
MCSE is not a programming cert. There are no MCSE VB books.
I'm sick of your incesant lies and mistruths. You can't really be THAT
misinformed or unintelligent.
*PL0NK*
-Chad
------------------------------
From: "Bobby D. Bryant" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: Re: Why the Linonuts fear me
Date: Tue, 17 Oct 2000 21:36:32 -0500
[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
> I intend to be Linux's worst enemy.
>
> and judging by the responses here I am succeeding quite well.
You don't seem to realize when you're being ridiculed.
You would actually be more successful if you posted less often. BS doesn't
become more believable in large volumes.
Bobby Bryant
Austin, Texas
------------------------------
From: "Chad Myers" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Crossposted-To: comp.os.ms-windows.nt.advocacy
Subject: Re: Astroturfing
Date: Wed, 18 Oct 2000 03:32:04 GMT
"Les Mikesell" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote in message
news:9s8H5.9667$[EMAIL PROTECTED]...
>
> "Chad Myers" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote in message
> news:6BYG5.11100$[EMAIL PROTECTED]...
> >
> > "Ian Davey" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote in message
> > news:[EMAIL PROTECTED]...
> > > In article <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>, "JS/PL"
> <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> > wrote:
> > > >> When I said use your brain, I meant use it, not repeat the same stuff
> in
> > > >> detail. There is probably something very badly wrong with your
> > > >> installation. C corrupted filesystem or a bad harddisk or something.
> > > >> There are kernel options to allow Linux to see more memory.
> > > >> Try mem=256M or something like it.
> > > >
> > > >That's the point, my objective isn't to hack the kernel, it is to
> insert a
> > > >disk, hover over the return key for a few minutes and have the thing
> work in
> > >
> > > You don't need to hack the kernel, there's a point in the Mandrake 7.1
> install
> > > where you get to enter how much memory you have. All you do is amend the
> > > 64MB value in the text box and change it to 256MB. Not rocket science.
> >
> > But be careful!
> >
> > If you install on an box with an Intel 810 chipset, it's usually 1 less
> > than the MB you have installed. 128? No... 127. 256? No... 255 or 254
> > Otherwise? Kernel panic! There's quality software for you.
>
> Neat! How many Microsoft people are paid to do research on Linux's
> weak points?
QUICK! LES! DUCK! THE BLACK HELIOCOPTERS ARE COMING!
I was asked to install a kick-around Linux box on an extra box we had
to test our java SDK on something other than Windows.
Basic RH 6.2 install... didn't detect hardly anything.
Intel 810-chipset, one of the most ubiquitos chipsets around... couldn't
detect sound, video, UDMA, RAM, nothing.
It detected 16MB of RAM. Thank you very little.
As per HOW-TO instructions on the RAM subject, I modified my lilo.conf
setting the mem=128M option which proceeded to panic on reboot.
Later, after being berrated in the newsgroups and on irc, I finally found
a back-woods website where some other poor individual chronicled his
ordeal with getting Linux running on the 810 to which he described why
you must set it to 127M, not 128M.
What was that claim that Linux supported more hardware than Windows *.*?
I've yet to have seen a machine that NT couldn't detect the RAM and at
least establish a 640x480x8 VGA mode GUI.
What is so complicated with this that Linux can't ever seem to manage
the most basic of hardware devices (i.e. RAM, video, etc)
-Chad
------------------------------
From: Goldhammer <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: Re: Claire Lynn
Date: Wed, 18 Oct 2000 03:35:28 GMT
In article <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>,
[EMAIL PROTECTED] (The Ghost In The Machine) wrote:
> There's also FreeBSD, although the licensing is different (I
> don't know the details of the differences between the BSD freeware
> license and the GNU freeware license -- as I recall, Linux itself
> is distributed under the LGPL, not the GPL).
To fanatics, the differences are important. But suffice it to
say that the GPL serves a purpose, and that purpose clicks
with many developers.
> Of course, were it to be replaced with FreeBSD, I don't know
> if anyone would mind too much;
It makes no sense to say that linux can be replaced with
FreeBSD. It makes about as much sense as saying that
algebra can be replaced with group theory. Linux will be
there. FreeBSD will be there. They are not going away.
This is not a race. This is not a competition. This is not
a question of competetive marketing. They are not competing for
anything. If you think they are, then I suggest you re-read the BSD
license carefully.
> FreeBSD, by contrast, doesn't appear to have quite as much visibility
> in the personality department. (In a rational marketplace, this
> would make no difference, and it may not make much difference anyway.)
Who cares? Ask the BSD developers if they care. Haven't you noticed
that they chugg away at their project regardless of what the
market pundits say? What does that tell you? Lest you need it
spelled out:
THEY DO NOT GIVE A SHIT WHAT MARKETING PUNDITS SAY.
Clear?
--
Don't think you are. Know you are.
Sent via Deja.com http://www.deja.com/
Before you buy.
------------------------------
From: "Les Mikesell" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Crossposted-To: comp.os.ms-windows.nt.advocacy
Subject: Re: Astroturfing
Date: Wed, 18 Oct 2000 03:51:01 GMT
"Chad Myers" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote in message
news:EJYG5.11101$[EMAIL PROTECTED]...
>
> >
> > Is there a way to grep the w2k help file for all instances of
> > 'Active Directory'. Just about every new feature I tried to
> > use claimed to need it when I tried to follow the help file
> > instructions. Perhaps they are wrong. For example, I wanted
> > to use a win2k box to do scheduled file replication from a share
> > not on win2k to a different (remote) win2k box. The help file
> > says I need an Active Directory in the picture to do this. Is it
> > wrong?
>
> You don't _NEED_ it. You have to have permissions on both boxes.
When I went through the directions it said I needed DFS, which in
turn said I needed Active Directory. Where do I find the real
instructions? I ended up using a cygwin-compiled rsync on one
end and a unix cron job on the other which was easier to set up
and probably a lot more efficient.
> > So, what is your recommended approach when you have a win2k domain
> > as a subset of a Kerberos domain? Note that I really don't want to
hear
> > that the win2k boxes will refuse to use a standard Kerberos server for
> > authentication while exchanging their own extra proprietary data among
> > themselves, or that the only possible way to do it is to pay for
MS-client
> > licenses for all of your standard boxes so you can put everything in AD.
>
> Group policy, down-level NT authentication tokens, Group membership, etc
> are only useful on an ADS domain. Win2K clients will work happily with
> any krbv5 compliant Kerberos domain server, but they can't take advantage
> of these special features. In Unix land, group membership wouldn't get you
> very far, Group policy wouldn't be implemented, and down-level NT
authentication
> wouldn't matter much because NT 4.0 doesn't support kerberos. I do
> believe there are 3rd party implementations of it, however.
>
> I'm still not clear as to what you're losing. If you want the advanced
features
> of Win2K, you have to get Win2K. If you want to be standard compliant,
then
> you have to be standard compliant. I'm not sure what you're complaining
about.
I'm complaining about the claim Win2K is standards compliant yet at the
same time saying that you have to use all Win2K to use its features.
> I can't get some advanced features of NetWare running Win2K, Unix or any
> other platform, I don't see you screaming about that.
I don't see Novell dumping clients on every desktop that don't work quite
right until you buy the matching server, either.
> > > > I don't think that is true at all. In fact I think it is like most
> > > > other Microsoft products that claim standards compliance yet really
> > > > refuse to interoperate with other vendors' products.
> > >
> > > More contrived statments.
> >
> > Have you ever actually used MS telnet, ftp, frontpage, J++ (just for a
> > start) with any other vendors' products? They are broken in ways
> > that can't possibly be accidental.
>
> How so?
> I've never had problems with telnet or ftp working with anything.
Have you tried to use any screen-oriented app with NT telnet? In most
cases it tells the server it is 'ansi' when in fact it is not, and it
doesn't
understand resizing the window at all. Ftp doesn't do passive mode
so it is useless where a firewall blocks the normal-mode inbound
data connection.
> The Win9x/NT4 telnet app only supports VT100, it's a basic command-line
> telnet. The Win2K telnet supports just about everything the basic telnet
> client on most major Unixes supports (ANSI color, etc).
Does it notify the server about resize?
> Frontpage is a crappy piece of software, MS should've never bought it,
> but many people use it and use it successfully and it's a very popular
> product, so complaining about it doesn't do any good.
I'm not complaining about it being a bad product. I expect that. I am
complaining about it requiring a matching server to keep the user
happy - and that it generally requires a matching browser to view
the pages too.
> How is J++ broken? I've written J++ apps with J/Direct turned off and
> ran them successfully on Unix before.
>
> Please ellaborate.
I think it has been changed since the original, but I didn't think that
anything done with the visual layout tools would display correctly
under Netscape, either the unix or windows versions. At least our
developers switched to a more standard java product before finding
out how to do it. There is no sense in dealing with things that
encourage, if not force, vendor specific restrictions.
Les Mikesell
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
------------------------------
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (.)
Crossposted-To: comp.os.ms-windows.nt.advocacy
Subject: Re: Linux 2.4 mired in delays as Compaq warns of lack of momentum
Date: 18 Oct 2000 03:53:16 GMT
In comp.os.linux.advocacy Chad Myers <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> "." <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote in message
> news:8sikng$2t12$[EMAIL PROTECTED]...
>> The compliancy is no lie; it is indeed 'compliant' in a very basic and
> technical
>> sense of the word, but again, its utterly useless in the real world. Utterly.
> Specific examples? No one uses it because OS/2 is worthless.
Large video array multiplexors like Esotera. Not exactly worthless.
>> Just like their POSIX layer--which no one ever uses. Because they CANT use
> it,
>> because it DOESNT WORK.
> Odd. I use POSIX applications every day. Granted, the POSIX version is 1.2 or
> 1.3
> IIRC in NT 4.0 and similar in Win2K, so it won't run the latest and greatest,
> but it runs many older POSIX application.
Older POSIX applications? Like what, exactly?
=====.
------------------------------
From: "Bobby D. Bryant" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Crossposted-To: comp.os.ms-windows.nt.advocacy
Subject: Re: Astroturfing
Date: Tue, 17 Oct 2000 21:54:39 -0500
[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
> The black helicopters are coming for you right now.
>
> claire
Wow. Who'd've thought that yours would be the first name to pop up!
Bobby Bryant
Austin, Texas
------------------------------
From: "Bobby D. Bryant" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: Re: claire_lynn = "S"?
Date: Tue, 17 Oct 2000 21:51:13 -0500
[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
> Just a thought. I was wondering what happened to that old bugger.
Almost certainly = "S", plus about a dozen more. "She" even forgot and
signed one of "her" posts with the wrong name one time.
The technical term is "sock puppet".
Bobby Bryant
Austin, Texas
------------------------------
From: T. Max Devlin <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Crossposted-To:
comp.os.ms-windows.nt.advocacy,comp.arch,alt.conspiracy.area51,comp.os.netware.misc,comp.protocols.tcp-ip,comp.lang.java.advocacy
Subject: Re: Why is MS copying Sun???
Date: Tue, 17 Oct 2000 09:47:32 -0400
Reply-To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Said Peter da Silva in comp.os.linux.advocacy;
>In article <8s2bur$otj$[EMAIL PROTECTED]>,
>Simon Cooke <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>> Now, if you're using Linux, how long does it take you to convert your
>> X-Windows graphics display code to a postscript rendered so that you can do
>> complex work?
>
>.canvas postscript -file $filename -width $width -height $height ...
Somehow, I figured we'd see some response along these lines. ;-D
BTW, since I am curious, what is this '.canvas' command?
--
T. Max Devlin
*** The best way to convince another is
to state your case moderately and
accurately. - Benjamin Franklin ***
======USENET VIRUS=======COPY THE URL BELOW TO YOUR SIG==============
Sign the petition and keep Deja's archive alive!
http://www2.PetitionOnline.com/dejanews/petition.html
====== Posted via Newsfeeds.Com, Uncensored Usenet News ======
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------------------------------
From: T. Max Devlin <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Crossposted-To:
comp.os.ms-windows.nt.advocacy,comp.arch,alt.conspiracy.area51,comp.os.netware.misc,comp.protocols.tcp-ip,comp.lang.java.advocacy
Subject: Re: Why is MS copying Sun???
Date: Tue, 17 Oct 2000 23:25:12 -0400
Reply-To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Said Peter da Silva in comp.os.linux.advocacy;
>In article <vSPE5.133$[EMAIL PROTECTED]>,
>Erik Funkenbusch <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>> Actually, Notepad is an app that should only take any decent developer a few
>> hours to write.
>
>I should hope so. You could write a Notepad clone in Tcl, sans printing, in a
>few minutes. The idea that it'd take a couple of weeks boggles me, as does the
>fact that Microsoft hasn't replaced it with a 32-bit application.
Neither Tcl, nor a less-than-outrageously-pathetic text editor on
Windows, provide sufficient debilitating crappiness to ensure that there
will a) never be a convenient way to use both a competitive system and
Microsoft crapware, and b) never be enough functionality easily
available to the non-expert end user that they might become
knowledgeable enough to understand how crappy Windows is.
--
T. Max Devlin
*** The best way to convince another is
to state your case moderately and
accurately. - Benjamin Franklin ***
======USENET VIRUS=======COPY THE URL BELOW TO YOUR SIG==============
Sign the petition and keep Deja's archive alive!
http://www2.PetitionOnline.com/dejanews/petition.html
====== Posted via Newsfeeds.Com, Uncensored Usenet News ======
http://www.newsfeeds.com - The #1 Newsgroup Service in the World!
======= Over 80,000 Newsgroups = 16 Different Servers! ======
------------------------------
From: "Erik Funkenbusch" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Crossposted-To: comp.os.ms-windows.nt.advocacy
Subject: Re: Astroturfing
Date: Tue, 17 Oct 2000 23:18:34 -0500
"lyttlec" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote in message
news:[EMAIL PROTECTED]...
> Erik Funkenbusch wrote:
> >
> > "lyttlec" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote in message
> > news:[EMAIL PROTECTED]...
> > > In the bookstores the new books have "MCSP" Microsoft Certified
> > > Solutions Provider or Microsoft Certified Software Professional,
"MCDBA"
> > > Microsoft Certified Data Base Administrator, "MSNA" Microsoft
Certified
> > > Network Administrator. The older books still show MSCE. But it doesn't
> > > matter much what MS says. Just don't call yourself an Engineer on your
> > > business card if you go into consulting.
> >
> > MCSP is a different certification than MCSE. MCSP is a certificaiton
for
> > management if I recall correctly, while the MSNA is limited only to
> > networking versus Windows support, etc...
> MCSP is being used on the programming language books that used to show
> MCSE. i.e VB, VC++. Perhaps its just a marketing thing to get people to
> pay more money for 4 letters of the alphabet.
MCSE is a hardware and networking certification. It has nothing to do with
programming. That's the MCSD (Microsoft Certified Solution Developer) and
has been in existance for at least 5 years.
An MCP is a Certified Professional, and is sort of a catch-all. Anyone that
has any MS certification (or has completed at least one test) is an MCP, but
you have to complete specific tests for specific certifications.
------------------------------
From: "Les Mikesell" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Crossposted-To: comp.os.linux.misc
Subject: Re: Is there a MS Word (or substitute) for Linux?
Date: Wed, 18 Oct 2000 03:59:27 GMT
"Nigel Feltham" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote in message
news:8sii9g$k8eii$[EMAIL PROTECTED]...
> >Yea, but at least it doesn't have that funny smell about it, and infect
> >itself into every nook and cranny it can.
> >
>
> It does replace whatever desktop you decide to use with something similar
to
> the one a lot of us came to linux to avoid usingr
But, since most window managers have multiple virtual desktops, you can
keep your normal desktop and drop SO in its own.
> - as soon as it is taken
> apart and rebuilt into separate applications which don't need as many
> resources and leave the desktop alone the better - this will be an example
> of the difference in quality between closed source (staroffice as it
> currently stands) and open source (staroffice 6.0 when it is rewritten).
Of
> course there will be plenty of competition from K office by then so they
> will have to be good to compete.
Yes, it will be an improvement when they are split.
Les Mikesell
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
------------------------------
From: John Lockwood <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Crossposted-To:
comp.os.ms-windows.nt.advocacy,comp.arch,alt.conspiracy.area51,comp.os.netware.misc,comp.protocols.tcp-ip,comp.lang.java.advocacy
Subject: Re: Why is MS copying Sun???
Date: Tue, 17 Oct 2000 21:03:38 -0700
On Tue, 17 Oct 2000 23:11:43 GMT, @..@ wrote:
>Netware??? What the hell does that have to do with area 51?
Where do you think networking comes from? Why do you think there was
such a push for CNEs ten or twelve years ago -- this was recruitment
for people to go to the home world to feed the alien overlords.
------------------------------
From: "Bobby D. Bryant" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: Re: Advocacy NGs == Trollvilles
Date: Tue, 17 Oct 2000 22:01:57 -0500
[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
> Corel Linux was brain damaged long before MS bought into the program
> and you know that full well.
I don't know that full well, because I've never tried it, nor even read
up on it. I know that some posters to Slashdot don't like it, but that
knowledge isn't really very informative, is it?
Bobby Bryant
Austin, Texas
------------------------------
Crossposted-To: comp.os.ms-windows.nt.advocacy,comp.lang.java.advocacy
Subject: Re: Why is MS copying Sun???
From: Darin Johnson <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Date: Wed, 18 Oct 2000 04:02:00 GMT
"Simon Cooke" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes:
> Reparse the sentence. He's saying that the groups weren't around then --
> not Usenet itself.
Well, that's certainly hard to prove if anecdotal evidence isn't
accepted. I certainly read amiga groups in 86, so why wouldn't they
exist in 85? (and PC advocates definately were saying things like
"the average user has no need for multitasking" in 86)
------------------------------
From: "Simon Cooke" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Crossposted-To:
comp.os.ms-windows.nt.advocacy,comp.arch,alt.conspiracy.area51,comp.os.netware.misc,comp.protocols.tcp-ip,comp.lang.java.advocacy
Subject: Re: Why is MS copying Sun???
Date: Tue, 17 Oct 2000 21:03:05 -0700
"T. Max Devlin" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote in message
news:[EMAIL PROTECTED]...
> Said Peter da Silva in comp.os.linux.advocacy;
> >In article <vSPE5.133$[EMAIL PROTECTED]>,
> >Erik Funkenbusch <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> >> Actually, Notepad is an app that should only take any decent developer
a few
> >> hours to write.
> >
> >I should hope so. You could write a Notepad clone in Tcl, sans printing,
in a
> >few minutes. The idea that it'd take a couple of weeks boggles me, as
does the
> >fact that Microsoft hasn't replaced it with a 32-bit application.
>
> Neither Tcl, nor a less-than-outrageously-pathetic text editor on
> Windows, provide sufficient debilitating crappiness to ensure that there
> will a) never be a convenient way to use both a competitive system and
> Microsoft crapware, and b) never be enough functionality easily
> available to the non-expert end user that they might become
> knowledgeable enough to understand how crappy Windows is.
*yawn* you're getting boring, Max.
BTW: Peter -- writing the same app in WFC/VJ++6 or Visual Basic -- or heck,
MFC, also takes only a few minutes. For an appropriate comparison to what we
were talking about, how long would it take you to write it in C talking
directly to X? That's the closest equivalent.
Or, perhaps GTK at a push.
Simon
------------------------------
From: "JS/PL" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Crossposted-To: comp.os.ms-windows.nt.advocacy,comp.lang.java.advocacy
Subject: Re: Why is MS copying Sun???
Date: Wed, 18 Oct 2000 00:03:26 -0400
Reply-To: "JS/PL" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
"T. Max Devlin" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote in message
news:[EMAIL PROTECTED]...
> Said JS/PL in comp.os.linux.advocacy;
> >"Weevil" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote in message
> [...]
> >> 8086 - $6
> >> 80286 - $10
> >> 80386 - $16
> >> 80486 - $16
> >>
> >> This came out to a weighted average of $8.22. At the time, Commodore
was
> >> paying $11, so this was a nice break for them. However, Microsoft then
> >> informed them that without the per processor agreement, they would be
> >> charged a flat $30 per copy, regardless of processor.
> >>
> >> Naturally, Commodore signed.
> >
> >$30.00 on a $2500.00 PC isn't exactly what I'd call a make or break
amount.
> >If what you say is true a $19.00 hike in what they were paying wouldn't
be a
> >burden of any consequence (8/10ths of a percent of the cost of a typical
> >system).
>
> Resisting with all my might the urge to point out the rather pathetic
> lack of reason you display (oops!), I will point out to those who may
> not notice it that it makes a hell of a difference when your
> competitor's system is $2490, and people buy on price, as we all know
> they do, particularly with a 'commodity' product such as a PC.
> Nevertheless, its interesting that what you previously insisted was a
> 20% increase is now a 270% increase, which you know feel compelled to
> compare to the price of the entire system in order to make it appear
> small.
Try reading more carefully, I never quoted 20% someone else did. And I still
stand by the statement that a 19 dollar increase on a complete system is
NOTHING . I can confidently say that no sale (less than 1 in a million) on a
$2500 computer system was lost over 19 bucks. You can try to make it SEEM
like a huge amount with your 270% bull, but it works out to about - less
than one days depreciation of the system sitting on the store shelf or about
a tenth of the fricking sales tax on the system.
Mr. Dell wouldn't be the richest man on earth under 40 if the profit margin
on OEM computers was as low as the anti-ms clan like to insinuate.
------------------------------
From: "Erik Funkenbusch" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Crossposted-To: comp.os.ms-windows.nt.advocacy
Subject: Re: Why is MS copying Sun???
Date: Tue, 17 Oct 2000 23:26:56 -0500
"T. Max Devlin" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote in message
news:[EMAIL PROTECTED]...
> Said Erik Funkenbusch in comp.os.linux.advocacy;
> >> Excuse me, but Windows 3.1 does not compete with DOS. That is
> >> important, whether you want to recognize it or not.
> >
> >And telephone equipment manufacturers don't compete with the phone
company
> >either, that doesn't stop them from putting disclaimers on the phones
that
> >warn them not to use the equipment in unsupported phone systems.
>
> I've never seen such a thing, and don't really understand what the hell
> you're talking about when you say 'unsupported phone systems'; all
> subscriber lines in the U.S. are standardized; a legacy of the 'Ma Bell'
> years, when AT&T was allowed to be a public utility. It certainly
> doesn't have anything to do with the fact that Windows 3.1 did not
> compete with DOS, and therefore Microsoft's refusal to support somebody
> else's DOS because they were a 'competitor' was blatantly and obviously
> anti-competitive, and illegal.
Who's talking about only the US? Phones can be brought across borders and
plugged into foreign phone systems, and can also be plugged into PBX's,
which can damage the phone (especially if it's a digital PBX).
I've seen plenty of warnings that come with phones from companies like
Lucent and Siemens that warn against attaching the equipment to non-support
phone systems.
------------------------------
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