Linux-Advocacy Digest #716, Volume #32 Fri, 9 Mar 01 05:13:03 EST
Contents:
Re: What Linux MUST DO! - Comments anyone? ("GreyCloud")
Re: The merits of the BSD license. ("GreyCloud")
Re: C# ("GreyCloud")
Re: Windows emulators ("GreyCloud")
Re: GPL, an open mind, options? ("GreyCloud")
Re: Windows emulators ("Nigel Feltham")
Microsoft's .NET Vision ("Adam Warner")
Re: Take an ATOM - Leave an ATOM (Donn Miller)
Re: Take an ATOM - Leave an ATOM (Donn Miller)
Re: Sometimes, when i run Windows ("Nigel Feltham")
Re: Computing Power to Peak SOON! (WAS: Moore's Law, continued...) ("GreyCloud")
Re: Another Linux "Oopsie"! (Karel Jansens)
Re: definition of "free" for N-millionth time (Stefaan A Eeckels)
----------------------------------------------------------------------------
From: "GreyCloud" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: Re: What Linux MUST DO! - Comments anyone?
Date: Fri, 9 Mar 2001 00:39:51 -0800
"Craig Kelley" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote in message
news:[EMAIL PROTECTED]...
> "Paolo Ciambotti" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes:
>
> > In article <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>, "Charlie Ebert"
> > <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> >
> > > http://www.netslaves.com/comments/983976069.shtml
> > >
> > > Charlie
> > >
> >
> > Slow news day, clueless journalist, rant mode switch stuck in the
> > "on" position.
>
> I thought it was a great article. Not terribly accurate, but it
> reflects the *perceptions* of those that use Windows all the time.
> They think Linux should be easy to install, and yet they have never
> installed Windows so they don't know how bad it really is.
>
> Her gripes about Word were pretty much all valid; us geek-types
> really hate those products anyway so we have zero interest in coding a
> replacement (to replace what, exactly? emacs? I hardly think anyone
> could pry it from me.). Corel's offering was... creative, to put it
> nicely.
>
> Many of her arguments are dated, which is a tribute to how far we've
> come in the last 2 years.
>
> The "beta" comments were amusing, considering that no large product
> ever leaves that state. Open Source developers are just more honest
> than commercial people. (when was the last Windows title you bought
> that didn't have an "update" or two or two dozen on the company's
> website -- how often did you have to buy a new version to fix the bugs
> [Adaptec Easy-CD 3 was horrible!]). If she really wants a happy
> dot-zero release number then use Windows, I suppose..
>
> Technical standards? Umm, let's see how standard Microsoft's
> "standards" are: bad unicode in HTML, MSDNS, MSDHCP, MSCHAP,
> MSKerberos, ActiveX, MSSOAP, etc. etc. etc.
>
Hmmm.... Technical standards?? Microsoft has been stealing ... or lets say
re-incorporating others'
standards into their lineup for sometime... let us look at billie-boys first
basic...
Looks like a rip-off from DEC's basic! SOOO many people have seen this so
often!
Ol' billy boy has been using the law to his advantage... down to the last
jot 'n tittle!
------------------------------
From: "GreyCloud" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: Re: The merits of the BSD license.
Date: Fri, 9 Mar 2001 00:48:43 -0800
"Craig Kelley" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote in message
news:[EMAIL PROTECTED]...
> "Matthew Gardiner" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes:
>
> > Mind you, If you look on the Solaris CDROM it has, "Portions may be
derived
> > from Berkley BSD Systems., licensed from U. of CA", it is quite
suprising
> > how SUN acknowledges the use of BSD code in its OS, however, Microsoft
> > doesn't, it clearly says something about Microsoft and its ethics.
>
> NT4, the NT Resource Kit and NT Services for UNIX all recognize the
> reagants of CA, Berkely in their licenses. I've hardly used 2000, so
> I can't comment on whether it does or not.
>
> --
> It won't be long before the CPU is a card in a PCI slot on your ATX
videoboard
> Craig Kelley -- [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> http://www.isu.edu/~kellcrai finger [EMAIL PROTECTED] for PGP block
Even Apple, back in 1979 used UCSD software! It was great back then. Sun
CEO Joy was a graduate
of Berkely if I recall right. He has a photo memory! So Sun OS is his, and
a very good os indeed. Sun accredits ATT&T, & BSD in some of their C header
files. OpenGl is accredited from SGI.
Now... Billy boy's C++ uses open Gl too. Also even gives a couple of header
files credit to SGI.
But some things, like sticky pins, .... well, lets just say billy's boys'
siphoned thin air!!
LOL!!!
------------------------------
From: "GreyCloud" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: Re: C#
Date: Fri, 9 Mar 2001 00:55:23 -0800
"Erik Funkenbusch" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote in message
news:Bf%p6.227$[EMAIL PROTECTED]...
> "." <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote in message
> news:988rdj$t8m$[EMAIL PROTECTED]...
> > > The Java bytecode was designed for the limitations of interpretation.
> Why
> >
> > Indeed. One must wonder why the same limitations are in C#, when it is
> > not interpreted.
>
> No, IL is optimized for compiling, not interpreting.
>
> > Oh yeah, its because microsoft pays their programmers 40K per year and
> > requires 55 hour workweeks.
>
> C# and much of the IL was designed by Anders Hejlsberg, the key architect
of
> Borland's Delphi.
>
I didn't know that! I like that kind of history. Want more!
------------------------------
From: "GreyCloud" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: Re: Windows emulators
Date: Fri, 9 Mar 2001 01:07:14 -0800
"Bloody Viking" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote in message
news:989g80$8aq$[EMAIL PROTECTED]...
>
> GreyCloud ([EMAIL PROTECTED]) wrote:
>
> : Don't suppose that when one runs windoze in a child window one will see
> : a blue screen a lot in that window??
>
> That's funny. Get the blue screen in a window, and just kill the window.
No
> muss, no fuss, no rebooting!
>
> Maybe we need to get back to basics (no, I don't mean that language!) and
go
> with more CLI stuff. For example, I unearthed a spreadsheet that is free
in
> price but is shareware for DOS but no registration is needed for Linux. I
> downloaded it and compiled it, and tested it.
>
> It's an ugly Lotus 123 clone for the CLI. A problem is that its executable
is
> named "mc" like our favourite file manager, Midnight Commander. So, after
a
> second compile, I named its executable "123". A real beauty of this
> "MacroCalc" is the file format: plain text. To find it, go to a search
engine
> and grep up on "spreadsheet" and "linux".
>
> To my delight, emacs I recently found out works on the CLI too. I'm going
to
> have to play with it. I always thought it was X-only. A cool thing would
be to
> port files to Postscript after putting tags in a document as you edit like
you
> do when making .HTML files.
>
> Now, for a real stretch, a definite for hacker types only: A graphic file
> maker/editor for the CLI. This gem would be a nightmare to use, as it
would
> make bitmaps after a fashion but the user edits hex. Yuck! I suppose it
could
> be like a hyper-spreadsheet with hex numbers in the cells. Gotta have
macros
> like crazy. I guess this is (way more than) a bit impractical.
>
> Given how GUIs are such resource hogs when they work - which isn't often
for
> some GUIs - and a pain to interface with other utilities, maybe it's time
we
> get back to the CLI. The GUI ended up giving us a maddening cornucopia of
> incompatible file formats thanks to commercial software.
>
> What would be nice would be a picture viewer that doesn't need X, like the
> ancient DOS picture viewers.
>
Hmmm... makes me hunger back to vms! You've got a good point tho! I honed
my teeth on text manipulations.
Most all of Point of Sales machines use text. Look at a Safeway LCD
screens. Its easy to read. Don't need fancy stuff. I suppose that guis'
are eye candy to promote the company's sales, but they sure look good!
Remember Visicalc?? It's what got the personal computer industry started
along with Electric Pencil! The rest is
history. ( For the price I still liked the Amiga's O/S! So short and
sweet!)
------------------------------
From: "GreyCloud" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: Re: GPL, an open mind, options?
Date: Fri, 9 Mar 2001 01:09:44 -0800
"mlw" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote in message
news:[EMAIL PROTECTED]...
> I have responded in more than a few threads threads about GPL. Let me
admit, up
> front, that in weighing the volume of very good points, I concede that I
was
> interpreting the GPL in a vacuum, and thus incompletely.
>
> It was clear from reading respondents that there is sufficient evidence
that a
> dry interpretation of the GPL is not necessarily enough to keep you out of
> court.
>
> RMS seems to have made it clear that, by his interpretation of the terms
of the
> GPL, that an unbiased, pure, interpretation of the GPL is not what he
intends,
> but more over, that his interpretation (which I do not feel the text of
the GPL
> 2.0 supports) makes it an all encompassing document.
>
> If one reads the GPL, in a vacuum of RMS comments, it seems pretty
reasonable
> and fair. It is when you apply his definitions of the various terms and
> comments that the effect is chilling.
>
> So, what do we do?
>
> I really like the idea of protecting free software. I think BSD does not
do
> this, it is too easy to take free software and capitalize on it and leave
the
> community uncompensated. But the degree with which RMS seems to take the
GPL
> seems way too extreme to be reasonable.
>
> Is there a sufficiently protective public license which both protects the
> rights of the individual developers but still allows a program to be used
in a
> non-free system?
>
Uh.. can someone define this RMS stuff?? I have a background in VMS and it
uses rms.
Its confusing!
------------------------------
From: "Nigel Feltham" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: Re: Windows emulators
Date: Fri, 9 Mar 2001 09:11:25 -0000
> Now, for a real stretch, a definite for hacker types only: A graphic file
> maker/editor for the CLI. This gem would be a nightmare to use, as it
would
> make bitmaps after a fashion but the user edits hex. Yuck! I suppose it
could
> be like a hyper-spreadsheet with hex numbers in the cells. Gotta have
macros
> like crazy. I guess this is (way more than) a bit impractical.
>
Why does a CLI graphics editor have to be text-only. It is possible to
produce
a bitmapped graphics editor for the CLI in unix/linux the same as we used to
use
under dos, maybe someone could write one based on SVGALIB or something
similar?
------------------------------
From: "Adam Warner" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: Microsoft's .NET Vision
Date: Fri, 09 Mar 2001 09:19:52 GMT
http://www.microsoft.com/presspass/press/2001/Feb01/ProdActFAQ.asp
Specifically:
Q: Does Microsoft Product Activation have something to do with the
Microsoft .NET strategy and ASP business?
A: Anti-piracy technologies, such as Microsoft Product Activation, balance
both the needs of consumers in acquiring the content they want, and the
rights of content owners to protect the distribution of their works. In a
.NET environment, where digital content and services are accessed on a
variety of devices that communicate with each other, the protection of
digital content must accompany the facilitation of Internet services. Such
a seamless interaction is at the heart of the Microsoft .NET intellectual
property protection vision.
---End Quote---
Reading that above blew me away. I believe this is a cynical though still
accurate "translation":
Microsoft's .NET technologies will allow producers of content to specify
exactly how that content may be used--including whether it may be viewed
one or x times, copied, printed, stored, etc. The consumer will have a lot
of choice in how they pay for that content. This is our idea of balance in
a world where fair use will become pratically irrelevant.
It is unacceptable that people can use the Internet without comprehensive
control over all content. This is why the protection of content must be a
component of Internet Service Provision. Microsoft has a vision where no
citizen will be able to access vast portions of the Internet without these
intellectual property controls applying. This vision is Microsoft .NET
(not to be confused with MSN, which was going to be bigger than the
Internet).
Regards,
Adam
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 09 Mar 2001 04:22:33 -0500
From: Donn Miller <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: Re: Take an ATOM - Leave an ATOM
Charlie Ebert wrote:
>
> http://www.eetimes.com/story/technology/OEG20010306S0061
Pretty soon wave packets will be the operating medium of choice. See,
electrons will be too big and fat for the super ultra high-density
microchips of the future. Optical computing is one such technology.
And to think at one time people thought the Audion (DeForest Tube) was a
technological breakthrough!
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------------------------------
Date: Fri, 09 Mar 2001 04:26:07 -0500
From: Donn Miller <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: Re: Take an ATOM - Leave an ATOM
Donn Miller wrote:
> And to think at one time people thought the Audion (DeForest Tube) was a
> technological breakthrough!
Click here to see Microsoft's idea of cutting-edge technology.
http://inventorsmuseum.com/deforestad.htm
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------------------------------
From: "Nigel Feltham" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: Re: Sometimes, when i run Windows
Date: Fri, 9 Mar 2001 09:34:36 -0000
> I am getting a bit better performance, 2 crashes a day running losedos2k,
> bug fix 1. Lookout and/or Access are usually involved. No BSOD, just
> freezes. Losedos could not even make it to a BSOD. My Linux computers
> are perfect. Only the lack of electricity threatens their stability.
> --
If you get a decent UPS or use a laptop from the mains with a good battery
installed even lack of electricity won't kill linux (at least while
batteries last).
------------------------------
From: "GreyCloud" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Crossposted-To:
alt.destroy.microsoft,alt.microsoft.sucks,comp.os.ms-windows.nt.advocacy
Subject: Re: Computing Power to Peak SOON! (WAS: Moore's Law, continued...)
Date: Fri, 9 Mar 2001 01:33:12 -0800
"Bloody Viking" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote in message
news:989jke$9b9$[EMAIL PROTECTED]...
>
> SoneoneElse (SomeoneElse) wrote:
>
> : Actually i think those overclockers actuyal use smething like liquid
> : nitrogen.
>
> Not yet at least. The wildest of the bunch use watercooled peltiers to
cool
> their overrevved CPUs. Check out alt.comp.hardware.overclocking for a good
> laugh. (:
>
I've read the whole thread. Now, has anybody seen the Discovery Channels
exposure of NSA's computer system, (with their permissions of course!) of
their liquid nitrogen cooling system of a bunch of Crays?
Cooling chips of certain types can be done using a thin strip of copper
underneath the chips. The copper strip is then coupled to an ice chilled
water cooling system. I know... it worked for the persian gulf war on the
tomahawk cruise missile system and the airborne systems. Its expensive of
course!
But... new semiconductor technologies are always around the corner. I look
forward to these new chips!
(It only gets better!)
------------------------------
From: Karel Jansens <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: Re: Another Linux "Oopsie"!
Date: Thu, 08 Mar 2001 23:18:48 +0100
Peter Hayes wrote:
>
> On Thu, 08 Mar 2001 20:32:04 GMT, Pete Goodwin
> <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>
> > In article <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>,
> > [EMAIL PROTECTED] says...
> >
> > > But if the standard Linux way of printing is to generate PostScript and
> > > modify the PostScript to suit the printer, why does it work sometimes and
> > > not others?
> > >
> > > Such that all the user should need to do is File -> Print.
> >
> > Which is precisely what I've been "whining" (so-called) about all along.
> > What escapes me is why they can't see it.
>
> Perhaps in RedHat or other distros things work as they should and it's only
> Mdk that's broken.
>
> Sadly, ISTM that there's something very weird going on in Mdk7.2 or maybe
> CUPS.
>
> All I wanted to do was to get LyX to print...
>
> Time to move on. Does Susie 7.1 come with KDE2, XFree402 and kernel 4.x ?
>
SuSE (or Susie, as you so affectionally call her <G>) usually comes with
everything _and_ the kitchen sink, but kernel 4.x ? I think that might
require a timewarp device thingie.
--
Regards,
Karel Jansens
==============================================================
"You're the weakest link. Goodb-No, wait! Stop! Noaaarrghh!!!"
==============================================================
------------------------------
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (Stefaan A Eeckels)
Subject: Re: definition of "free" for N-millionth time
Crossposted-To: gnu.misc.discuss,comp.os.ms-windows.advocacy,misc.int-property
Date: Fri, 9 Mar 2001 10:44:45 +0100
In article <MK%p6.278$[EMAIL PROTECTED]>,
"JD" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes:
Please keep your line length below 72 characters...
>
> By trying to cheapen 'programming', the GPL tends to weaken the
> already weak position of programmers in the marketplace, and tries
> to guarantee the access to code by the marketeers.
I'll never cease to be intrigued by the fact that those who
ascribe malicious intent to the GPL when "redefining free"
fall prey to exactly the same flaw. If the GPL "guarantees
the access to code by the marketeers", it is by happenstance,
not by design.
By using the same tactics you decry, you're weakening your
position.
You're obviously (too) passionate about the fact that the
GPL uses the copyright statutes to ensure that derivative
works are released under the GPL. You see this as "one
restriction too far", and that's your right, but also your
personal opinion. Please accept that those who don't feel
this way are not mindless idiots; the fact that you're
not convincing people is that your arguments and your
tone aren't convincing enough.
> There is only room for a few of the 'GPL consulting companies',
> and having been involved in Silicon valley, I have some stories
> to tell about the rather non-software quality based competition
> methodologies used. Such strategies make those 'support
> organizations' actually have no better behavior than they
> so-called great satan of software :-).
Dear John :-)
I've been involved with computer and consulting companies for
long enough to realize that what you describe is inherent in
"the professional approach to marketing", and not linked to
the license of a particular bit of software. If you're so inclined,
we can swap horror stories over a virtual beer.
What I like about the GPL is that it is friendly to individuals
providing software services. It isn't company-oriented, and it's
not a recipe for getting rich. If applied properly, it allows
you to provide quality services to a wide range of customers, and
to make a decent living doing so. Notice that BSDL, AL, MPL etc
offer similar opportunities. The "quid pro quo" approach of the
GPL strikes a chord with many management types, as it negates
most of the perceived advantages competitors would have through
the availability of the source code. The fact that it looks like
a commercial license (Ty Coon notwithstanding), and specifically
says that you can run and modify the code without restrictions
is a nice touch. Furthermore, because I have to GPL modifications
I made on behalf of my clients, they know they're not dependent
on _me_; the GPL keeps me "honest" towards my customers, and
(because they're in the business of being prudent) they appreciate
that. It's an advantage other free licenses don't have.
I'm not bothered by the fact that it restricts what I can do
with the code I derived from a GPLed work. The advantages outweigh
the disadvantages, or I wouldn't use the GPLed work as a basis.
Weighing pros and cons, making an informed decision, and then
living with the consequences of that decision without whining
are an important part of my philosophy.
--
Stefaan
--
How's it supposed to get the respect of management if you've got just
one guy working on the project? It's much more impressive to have a
battery of programmers slaving away. -- Jeffrey Hobbs (comp.lang.tcl)
------------------------------
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