Linux-Advocacy Digest #724, Volume #29 Wed, 18 Oct 00 09:13:04 EDT
Contents:
Re: KDE starting to stress out a little? (2:1)
Re: Astroturfing (Ben Bos)
Re: Why I do use Windows (2:1)
Re: KDE starting to stress out a little? (2:1)
Re: Why the Linonuts fear me (mlw)
Re: Astroturfing (Nick Condon)
Re: What is COLA? im in the dark on this one (Nick Condon)
RE: Why I do use Windows ("Gonzalo Pardo")
Re: Why I do use Windows ("Peter Stastny")
Re: Why is MS copying Sun??? ("Boris Dynin")
Re: Is there a MS Word (or substitute) for Linux? (Hartmann Schaffer)
Re: What is COLA? im in the dark on this one ("MH")
New easy to use firewall software (Chris Sherlock)
Re: Why I do use Windows ("MH")
----------------------------------------------------------------------------
From: 2:1 <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: Re: KDE starting to stress out a little?
Date: Wed, 18 Oct 2000 13:14:31 +0100
learn to snip.
-Ed
--
Edward Rosten
Engineer
u98ejr@
eng.ox.ac.uk
------------------------------
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (Ben Bos)
Crossposted-To: comp.os.ms-windows.nt.advocacy
Subject: Re: Astroturfing
Date: 18 Oct 2000 22:26:43 +1100
On Tue, 17 Oct 2000 13:49:18 GMT, Chad Myers
<[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>
>"Ben Bos" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote in message
>news:[EMAIL PROTECTED]...
>> On Mon, 16 Oct 2000 03:00:15 GMT, Chad Myers
>> <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>> >
>> >"Les Mikesell" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote in message
>> >news:8amG5.9426$[EMAIL PROTECTED]...
>> ><SNIP: other claiming Win2K is great>
>> >
>> >> If it were true that win2k integrated with standards you would not
>> >> have any problems using it as a client to standard LDAP
>> >
>> >Please cite specific, documented examples. Until then, I'll consider
>> >this an unknowledgable contrived statement.
>> >
>> >> and kerberos servers and you would lose no functionality compared
>> >> to having to run an active directory server.
>> >
>> >What functionality would you lose? Specifically?
>> >
>> >Here they are:
>> >a.) Group policy
>> >b.) Down-level NT authentication tokens
>> >c.) Group Membership
>> >
>> >Of these, which other OS or Kerberos server supports? You can use
>>
>> Novell's NDS and any X.500 directory (under which LDAP). And still, your
>> listing is _really_ limited.
>
>NDS supports Win2K Group policy? That's news to me. Perhaps you should go
>back and check your facts.
>
You mentioned group policy - not Win2K group policy.
>> >Win2K as a client to any other Kerberos server, but you can't take
>> >advantage of these features. Why not? Because they're Win2k -> Win2K
>> >specific. This would not benefit anyone in a Unix <-> Win2K situation,
>> >so your point is irrelevant.
>> >
>> >By the way, Win2K's implementation of Kerberos krbv5 is fully compliant.
>> >Don't let anyone tell you otherwise.
>> >
>> >> I don't think that is true at all. In fact I think it is like most
>> >> other Microsoft products that claim standards compliance yet really
>> >> refuse to interoperate with other vendors' products.
>> >
>> >More contrived statments.
>> >
>> >
>> >-Chad
>> >
>> >
>>
>> Anyway, I have not seen Win2K live yet. I hear that Active Directory
>> disappoints.
>
>I don't know where you heard that from. ADS is being rapidly adopted and
>rivels NDS in installation numbers. Many Fortune 2000 companies have
>already adopted it and are at the last stages of phasing out NT 4.0 or
>NT 3.51 in favor of ADS and Win2K.
>
>-Chad
>
>
Gartner group. A reference: http://www.vnunet.com/News/1109106
At some stage in the future, I will probably be migrating my company's servers
to Win2K. It will be nice to clean up a bit. But at the moment, we're
waiting.
Cheers,
Ben
--
Ben Bos
ICQ: 4285483
------------------------------
From: 2:1 <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: Re: Why I do use Windows
Date: Wed, 18 Oct 2000 13:33:20 +0100
> Okay, that's it; don't look disturbing anyone, just pointing that Linux
> is a good system,
> but that saying 1000 times that it has N applications, does not turn it to
> be true since
> I do not count vi, vim, emacs, joe, jed as 5 applications, just would say
> that Linux has a
> text editor (well, so does every OS, that's not remarkable).
> As an
> example of the millions Linux applications, let's take the GIMP, well ...
> ONE, while
> at Mac's or Windows world there are several of them apart from GIMP too :-)
So you count all of linux's text editors as 1 app, but all of windows
photo-editors as seperate apps.
Whatever.
I suppose that you count Word and word perfect as seperate apps, whilst
counting emacs and vi as 1 app?
> Linux is stable (undeniable, but to do what ?), but at
> the end, one can
> just configure, compile, install, and do administrator stuff on it (well,
> and some internetting,
> not browsing webs).
I do all y work on it. Which includes writing essays/reports,
calculations, making the odd time table and playing xevil.
> Linux desperatly needs a web browser as good or better
> than Internet
> Explorer (and it is being proved that it is not as easy to do it), a
> multimedia/gaming library and
I thing OPEN/GL is coming along quite nicely. The only thing I've heard
that it's missing is 3d sound.
> a decent mail and news client to be at least some useful to home user ...
I'm happy with netscape news. As for a mial client, I wouldn't give up
pine for the world.
> not to talk about
> applications, yeah, I mean applications, no tools or utilities programmed by
> non professionals.
So all the people working at RedHat are non professionals?
There are plenty of applications, but you seem unwilling to use them.
If there weren't applications, how would I do any useful work.
Here's a small list.
gcc is an application, but you seem not to want to count it as something
useful. Do you count VC++ and Borland C++ at al as applications?
LaTeX + (vi|emacs|pico|LyX) counts as an application. Do you count it?
if not, why not?
Staroffice is an app evnv if you don't like it (which I do.)
Wordprefect is an application
Abiword is an application
Koffice,
Applix,
LinuxCADs competitors (who's name I forget) are apps (LinuxCAD doesn't
count as a useful app, from the review I read).
MATLAB (which I have just got) is definitely an app.
GIMP (which you counted) is an app.
XV is an app
GNUPlot is an app
Many utilities perform the functions which the bigger apps don't need to
do (th apps don't do them because the utilities exist) but you won't
count them.
Etc. there are apps. You're just not interested in them.
> Even at the kernel list, there have been some discussions about the method
> Linus uses to develop (without any method at all), and he can do it 'cause
> he's
> a genious, but what when he become older ? What when someone that's not
> as genious and does not know the code as well as he does have to tweak it ?
> Well, to end this long troll-falming-post, let's talk about GNOME, for me,
> there is
> just one word : hypocrite (I just have used an English dictionary ... two
> clicks and ...).
WTF are you talking about?
Is GNOME a reason to use windows? If it is then you're very stupid,
since gnome is not necessary unser linux.
Troll.
-Ed
--
Konrad Zuse should recognised. He built the first | Edward Rosten
binary digital computer (Z1, with floating point) the | Engineer
first general purpose computer (the Z3) and the first | u98ejr@
commercial one (Z4). | eng.ox.ac.uk
------------------------------
From: 2:1 <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: Re: KDE starting to stress out a little?
Date: Wed, 18 Oct 2000 13:34:21 +0100
> Reading your sig, I assume that you're not familiar with the usenet
> rules?
> Your sig should be about 5 lines long, not 36........
This seems to be a recurrant conversation on cola.
-Ed
--
Konrad Zuse should recognised. He built the first | Edward Rosten
binary digital computer (Z1, with floating point) the | Engineer
first general purpose computer (the Z3) and the first | u98ejr@
commercial one (Z4). | eng.ox.ac.uk
------------------------------
From: mlw <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: Re: Why the Linonuts fear me
Date: Wed, 18 Oct 2000 07:45:57 -0400
[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
>
> Why do my posts generate so much hate and semi-intelligent insults
> from the Linux world?
>
> Because you fear me that's why.
You must think very highly of yourself, indeed, to think that you are to
be feared.
>
> Unlike the typical WinTroll, I actually use current versions of the
> software I am exposing. I have used every single distribution up to
> and including Mandrake 7.1 and with the exception of Slackware they
> all suck in one way or another.
> Sorry but it is true.
Again, you assume, incorrectly, that we do not have similar exposure to
other operating systems, only our opinions are different. Incidentally,
I get paid for my opinions.
>
> Why doesn't Slackware suck? Because it is not trying to be a half
> assed clone of Windows that's why. It is Linux, does not try to claim
> otherwise and stands on it's own for better or worse.
> I respect that. Slackware is Linux at it's best, like it or not, it is
> an honest attempt at the Linux philosophy and I like that.
This is an opinion, and for your opinion to mean something, you need the
respect of others. To get the respect of others .....
>
> You yo-yo's are so caught up in your own pile of bullshit that you
> have not a clue as to what the rest of the world wants, needs or is
> asking for.
The world I live in has small screams of frustration periodically as
Windows crashes. People want their systems to be like a VCR, turn it on,
and it works. Linux and the UNIX camps are closer to this than MS will
ever be.
>
> You think desktop users want Linux?
Many do.
>
> Think again. You can't even give it away.
This is either incorrect (on your part) or an outright lie.
>
> You think we want (taking Terry Porters list) Compilers, editors,
> schematic diagram thingies, flowchart programs? Think again.
Then don't use them. You remind me of these idiots who burn book. They
don't like them, so no one else should be allowed to read them. You are
saying "real people" (who ever that is) would never use them, so we
should not have them.
>
> Again you are a collective bunch of idiots with blinders on.
These programs exist for Windows too. (Only not as stable)
>
> Linux is free. Yet you can't even give it away.
You repeat yourself, same lie.
> Linux has had a LOT of positive press in the last year.
>
> Why is it not taking over the desktop?
All things take time. Perhaps another monopoly would not be a good
thing.
>
> Seems to me, we Windows users invest a lot of money in software and a
> free system would be a plus for us?
>
> So what's the deal?
The deal is the Windows monopoly.
>
> The deal is Linux sucks at 99 percent of what the average person wants
> or needs a computer to do.
Again, this is an opinion. 95% of what the end user wants from a
computer, Linux has. It is the last 5% that requires people writing a
lot of applications.
>
> You have half assed Windows clones that neither perfom as well nor
> have the features of the equivilant Windows programs. In some cases
> you don't have any equivilant at all (a decent browser).
How do you define a decent browser? Do you define one that is,
admittedly pretty, and frequently takes down the OS, or one which is
less pretty and does not.
>
> You fear me, because I have the facts, have used Linux and have come
> to the same conclusion that legions of others have come to. Linux is
> nice, but Windows is better. I just choose to expose this Linux scam
> for what it is. A scam.
No one fears you. Pity, perhaps, fear? No. You have opinions. Everyone
has opinions, only some of us forms ours out of experience.
>
> So, unlike Terry Porter who got pissed off back in 1997 at Windows,
Opinion
>I
> will continue to try current versions of Linux and Windows and maybe,
> just maybe, someday I will switch to Linux.
In this whole post you managed to string 20 words together that do not
form a ridiculous opinion.
This
>
> claire
--
http://www.mohawksoft.com
------------------------------
From: Nick Condon <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Crossposted-To: comp.os.ms-windows.nt.advocacy
Subject: Re: Astroturfing
Date: Wed, 18 Oct 2000 12:47:45 +0100
"Bobby D. Bryant" wrote:
> [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
>
> > The black helicopters are coming for you right now.
> >
> > claire
>
> Wow. Who'd've thought that yours would be the first name to pop up!
I'm tidying up my killfile today, does anyone have the canonical list of
Claire Lynn aliases?
------------------------------
From: Nick Condon <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: Re: What is COLA? im in the dark on this one
Date: Wed, 18 Oct 2000 12:48:27 +0100
[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
> I'll temper my fear with courage by asking this....
> Who or what is COLA?
Comp.Os.Linux.Advocacy
------------------------------
From: "Gonzalo Pardo" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: RE: Why I do use Windows
Date: Wed, 18 Oct 2000 12:00:11 GMT
> So you count all of linux's text editors as 1 app, but all of windows
> photo-editors as seperate apps.
I think you undestand me, by application I mean application not tool; I
do not even mean application at the style windows.
> Whatever.
> I suppose that you count Word and word perfect as seperate apps, whilst
> counting emacs and vi as 1 app?
I do not think I could count as applications my own scripts, could I ? I
think Wordperfect has some more code than vi does ...
> I thing OPEN/GL is coming along quite nicely. The only thing I've heard
> that it's missing is 3d sound.
Is coming does not mean is here ... so is coming Windows stability ...
> I'm happy with netscape news. As for a mial client, I wouldn't give up
> pine for the world.
Well, I find pine some limited, and even you could find by yourself some
of them ...
> So all the people working at RedHat are non professionals?
> There are plenty of applications, but you seem unwilling to use them.
How much of the GNU/Linux distribution has been developed by them ?
Do not mean recopilating and integrating together, just developed.
> gcc is an application, but you seem not to want to count it as something
> useful. Do you count VC++ and Borland C++ at al as applications?
I count it as a compiler (and I find it good one), but to be an
application it
would need some add-ons. Don't even mind if they are separated tools if
they integrate 100%.
> LaTeX + (vi|emacs|pico|LyX) counts as an application. Do you count it?
> if not, why not?
LaTeX is not an application, I found it more like a system or method, LyX
is an application, and it works fine for a lot of things. Sadly I can't open
the
documents I need with it ... I know, it is not Linux fault, but so are the
things ...
> Staroffice is an app evnv if you don't like it (which I do.)
I know it is an application, it counts at Windows world too.
> Wordprefect is an application
Sure, the same that Staroffice, but I do not like Corel approach of using
wine to run last version, do you count that one as a native application or
as
a Windows application running under Linux ?
> Abiword is an application
No. It is abandoned. And nowadays it is really alpha.
> Koffice
Haven't seen a final release, anyway, I count it as an application, even
a
bad one.
> Applix,
Application ... do you use it ? Do you feel is a good one ?
> LinuxCADs competitors (who's name I forget) are apps (LinuxCAD doesn't
> count as a useful app, from the review I read).
Again I count it as an application.
> MATLAB (which I have just got) is definitely an app.
I have it and Mathematica too, for both Windows and Linux.
> GIMP (which you counted) is an app.
> XV is an app
> GNUPlot is an app
Sure they are.
> Many utilities perform the functions which the bigger apps don't need to
> do (th apps don't do them because the utilities exist) but you won't
> count them.
We have to put a line between a miriad of tools used to do something
and an application.
> Etc. there are apps. You're just not interested in them.
They are just not as good as I expect (except some of them). Anyway,
always
talking about open source and bla bla bla, and most of the applications you
have
named are propietary ones, included Applix, MatLAB, Wordperfect, Staroffice
and LinuxCAD ... yeah, Staroffice is now open, let's see if it ends just
like the
long awaited Mozilla. What I mean is open source and willing to do a program
does not mean skills to do it, programming good things does need
professionals.
Where are Octave or scilab kind of MatLAB clones ? Years behind the
professional
one, and that's only an example.
> Is GNOME a reason to use windows? If it is then you're very stupid,
> since gnome is not necessary unser linux.
Those're obvious both of them. I am not stupid (otherwise I could not
understand you), and GNOME is not a duty to run Linux. But you have
to admit that there are always mentions to it when talking about a Linux
desktop to take the world, as if GNOME was the mankind salvation and
open source the only way to get saints.
------------------------------
From: "Peter Stastny" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: Re: Why I do use Windows
Date: Wed, 18 Oct 2000 14:01:38 -0400
Gonzalo Pardo <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote in message
news:u1fH5.90$[EMAIL PROTECTED]...
>
> I have both (and others) OS's on my machine (I mean Windows
> and Linux), and they both are configured to do what I need; that's
> what I have found :
>
> 1) Windows is by far more unstable (all of us knew that), but is
> pretty usable for home using (I switch it on and off every
> day, and there are even weeks where I do not see a blue
> screen).
>
> 2) On the other side, Linux is rock solid (we all knew this one too).
>
> 3) Windows without care is insecure to browse the web and staying
> connected a long time; I have avoided it by installing a free
> firewall
> on it (by far worse than ipchains). I share the modem connection
with
> Windows 98 SE.
>
> 4) With Linux I share the connection easier and more stable and have a
> rock solid system with no services running and a good firewall
> designed
> on to it.
>
> 5) With Windows I have got plenty of media players to play every
> available
> format in the market.
>
> 6) Linux can barely play every format, and a lot of them are performed
by
> beta software with a bad performance and too many bugs. One thing I
> should say, it plays TV with the AverMedia far better than Windows
> does.
>
> 7) In Windows I can use Office 2000 what I do not particularly like,
but
> helps me to read office work; one thing I like a lot is launching
> Word 2000
> in one second (if second time) or three seconds (if first time).
>
> 8) Neither Staroffice 5.2 nor Gnumeric or similars can be used by me
for
> the things I need. Staroffice is a pain that lasts for more than 20
> seconds
> to run ... I do not like Java at all.
>
> 9) At Windows I have a lot of games (in fact, all of them) and demos to
> play
> if I want to do it, as well as using encyclopedies, magazine
English
> courses,
> and such crappy stuff that I do not really mind, but I can do it.
>
> 10) On Linux I simply can't do it. Using an emulator is not the solution
> (at least
> in my case) because it goes slowly and the things I really would
like
> to be
> emulated (multimedia and games) are just the more CPU intensive
ones.
>
> 11) With Windows I have Internet Explorer, Netscape, Opera, Eudora,
> Pegasus,
> Outlook and Outlook Express and all internet tools I want, even
when
> they
> run slower than Linux ones.
>
> 12) At Linux I am stuck with Netscape, Opera is alpha state, there are a
> lot of mail
> clients (pine, mutt, kmail, xfmail, netscape, ...) that I use, but
I
> don't like them; to
> be honest, they are bad ones for me. The news are other story, I
have
> inn running
> and suck does feed it, then I read with tin and I like it, but find
> Outlook Express
> better by far.
>
> 13) To end, at Windows I have software to run, and some of it is really
> powerful, while
> other is just stupid, but it can be run.
>
> 14) Linux is wonderful, but X11 are crappy for me, and there are no
> applications around
> to be run, not to talk that the kernel 2.4 is lasting and some
> features are really needed
> now.
>
> Okay, that's it; don't look disturbing anyone, just pointing that Linux
> is a good system,
> but that saying 1000 times that it has N applications, does not turn it to
> be true since
> I do not count vi, vim, emacs, joe, jed as 5 applications, just would say
> that Linux has a
> text editor (well, so does every OS, that's not remarkable). In the end, I
> have to use
> Windows even when I would prefer Linux, just because there are no things
to
> be done
> at Linux apart from configuring the system and learning to be an
> administrator. As an
> example of the millions Linux applications, let's take the GIMP, well ...
> ONE, while
> at Mac's or Windows world there are several of them apart from GIMP too
:-)
> Besides
> all the work I have to do gets done faster on Windows than on Linux (even
> hanging some
> times). That's it, Microsoft is a shitty company (perhaps not as shitty as
> it is being said),
> Windows is an unstable OS (undeniable), but at the end, hell, one can
really
> work with
> it (even when it seems impossible). Linux is a open source OS (perhaps not
> as good as
> it is being said), Linux is stable (undeniable, but to do what ?), but at
> the end, one can
> just configure, compile, install, and do administrator stuff on it (well,
> and some internetting,
> not browsing webs). Linux desperatly needs a web browser as good or better
> than Internet
> Explorer (and it is being proved that it is not as easy to do it), a
> multimedia/gaming library and
> a decent mail and news client to be at least some useful to home user ...
> not to talk about
> applications, yeah, I mean applications, no tools or utilities programmed
by
> non professionals.
> Even at the kernel list, there have been some discussions about the method
> Linus uses to develop (without any method at all), and he can do it 'cause
> he's
> a genious, but what when he become older ? What when someone that's not
> as genious and does not know the code as well as he does have to tweak it
?
> Well, to end this long troll-falming-post, let's talk about GNOME, for me,
> there is
> just one word : hypocrite (I just have used an English dictionary ... two
> clicks and ...).
>
>
>
>
------------------------------
From: "Boris Dynin" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Crossposted-To:
comp.os.ms-windows.nt.advocacy,comp.arch,alt.conspiracy.area51,comp.os.netware.misc,comp.protocols.tcp-ip,comp.lang.java.advocacy
Subject: Re: Why is MS copying Sun???
Date: Wed, 18 Oct 2000 05:23:25 -0700
> I won't go into the issue of what is a "well architected" system and what
> isn't, it's irrelevant, the complexity of the Win32 API is obvious. It's
> far far more complex than the vt100 with decimal orders of magnitude more
> opportunity for weird undefined behaviour that has to be emulated, no
matter
> how good Microsoft might be at avoiding it.
I agree that emulating Win32 is a difficult undertaking. However, using it
isn't that hard.
The main problem is that lots of old stuff is included in order to provide
backward compatibility: for example, some networking calls are heritage of
MS Lan Manager (which was used >10 years ago), NetBIOS API (developed in
80s?), etc.
Generally, WIN32 API doesn't meet requirement of being "minimal" interface:
there are many ways to achieve same goal in WIN32. For example, networking
code involving sockets can be written by using:
1. Winsock-specific methods which use window messages to signal i/o events;
2. Unix-like select() call;
3. I/o completion ports (NT/W2k-specific asynch i/o).
You have to be able to chose APIs that are better suited for your specific
task. For example, I've see NT middleware written using WinSock calls which
employ window messages to report i/o completion. Those particular APIs go
back to Win3.1 and should't be used in application trying to achieve maximum
TCP/IP throughput on NT. Incidently, company which implemented that approach
was mostly Unix-oriented; those people didn't know NT/WIN32 very well.
Some Win32 calls only work on NT/W2k (not on Win9x).
However, after reading (looking through) 3-4 textbooks (like "Inside Windows
NT" /"Inside Windows 2000", etc.), one should be able to make sound
decisions on which mechanisms to use.
Boris
------------------------------
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (Hartmann Schaffer)
Crossposted-To: comp.os.linux.misc
Subject: Re: Is there a MS Word (or substitute) for Linux?
Date: 17 Oct 2000 22:22:17 -0400
In article <8shiq2$3fc$[EMAIL PROTECTED]>,
MH <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> ...
>Like it or not, the standard is Office. Spreading lies and FUD does not help
>Linux's cause. If you had said simply that "SO can open many standard office
this statement coming from an ms junkie must be the usenet joke of the
year
> ...
hs
------------------------------
From: "MH" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: Re: What is COLA? im in the dark on this one
Date: Wed, 18 Oct 2000 08:29:53 -0400
> [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
>
> I'll temper my fear with courage by asking this....
> Who or what is COLA?
(C)onstipated (O)verzealous (L)inux (A)dvocates
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 18 Oct 2000 23:29:46 +1000
From: Chris Sherlock <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: New easy to use firewall software
Hey all (especially Claire Lynn),
I have found this great piece of software that is very easy to configure
your Linux computer behind a firewall using Gnome 1.2 It even sees
portscans, etc.
It's called firestarter, and it looks brilliant. So brilliant in fact
that as soon as I get Debian up and running, I am going to run it!
Here is the URL: http://firestarter.sourceforge.net
Chris
------------------------------
From: "MH" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: Re: Why I do use Windows
Date: Wed, 18 Oct 2000 08:32:51 -0400
This is a terrible reply (argument) to what the poster said in his original
post.
Linux advocacy at its finest.
"2:1" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote in message news:[EMAIL PROTECTED]...
> > Okay, that's it; don't look disturbing anyone, just pointing that
Linux
> > is a good system,
> > but that saying 1000 times that it has N applications, does not turn it
to
> > be true since
> > I do not count vi, vim, emacs, joe, jed as 5 applications, just would
say
> > that Linux has a
> > text editor (well, so does every OS, that's not remarkable).
>
>
> > As an
> > example of the millions Linux applications, let's take the GIMP, well
...
> > ONE, while
> > at Mac's or Windows world there are several of them apart from GIMP too
:-)
>
> So you count all of linux's text editors as 1 app, but all of windows
> photo-editors as seperate apps.
>
> Whatever.
>
> I suppose that you count Word and word perfect as seperate apps, whilst
> counting emacs and vi as 1 app?
>
>
>
> > Linux is stable (undeniable, but to do what ?), but at
> > the end, one can
> > just configure, compile, install, and do administrator stuff on it
(well,
> > and some internetting,
> > not browsing webs).
>
> I do all y work on it. Which includes writing essays/reports,
> calculations, making the odd time table and playing xevil.
>
>
>
> > Linux desperatly needs a web browser as good or better
> > than Internet
> > Explorer (and it is being proved that it is not as easy to do it), a
> > multimedia/gaming library and
>
> I thing OPEN/GL is coming along quite nicely. The only thing I've heard
> that it's missing is 3d sound.
>
> > a decent mail and news client to be at least some useful to home user
...
>
> I'm happy with netscape news. As for a mial client, I wouldn't give up
> pine for the world.
>
>
> > not to talk about
> > applications, yeah, I mean applications, no tools or utilities
programmed by
> > non professionals.
>
> So all the people working at RedHat are non professionals?
> There are plenty of applications, but you seem unwilling to use them.
>
> If there weren't applications, how would I do any useful work.
>
> Here's a small list.
>
> gcc is an application, but you seem not to want to count it as something
> useful. Do you count VC++ and Borland C++ at al as applications?
>
> LaTeX + (vi|emacs|pico|LyX) counts as an application. Do you count it?
> if not, why not?
>
> Staroffice is an app evnv if you don't like it (which I do.)
>
> Wordprefect is an application
>
> Abiword is an application
>
> Koffice,
>
> Applix,
>
> LinuxCADs competitors (who's name I forget) are apps (LinuxCAD doesn't
> count as a useful app, from the review I read).
>
> MATLAB (which I have just got) is definitely an app.
>
> GIMP (which you counted) is an app.
>
> XV is an app
>
> GNUPlot is an app
>
> Many utilities perform the functions which the bigger apps don't need to
> do (th apps don't do them because the utilities exist) but you won't
> count them.
>
> Etc. there are apps. You're just not interested in them.
>
>
> > Even at the kernel list, there have been some discussions about the
method
> > Linus uses to develop (without any method at all), and he can do it
'cause
> > he's
> > a genious, but what when he become older ? What when someone that's not
> > as genious and does not know the code as well as he does have to tweak
it ?
>
>
>
> > Well, to end this long troll-falming-post, let's talk about GNOME, for
me,
> > there is
> > just one word : hypocrite (I just have used an English dictionary ...
two
> > clicks and ...).
>
>
> WTF are you talking about?
> Is GNOME a reason to use windows? If it is then you're very stupid,
> since gnome is not necessary unser linux.
>
> Troll.
>
>
> -Ed
>
>
> --
> Konrad Zuse should recognised. He built the first | Edward Rosten
> binary digital computer (Z1, with floating point) the | Engineer
> first general purpose computer (the Z3) and the first | u98ejr@
> commercial one (Z4). | eng.ox.ac.uk
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