Linux-Advocacy Digest #724, Volume #30 Thu, 7 Dec 00 23:13:03 EST
Contents:
Re: Windows 2000 sucks compared to linux ("Walton Simons")
Re: linux on a 486 ([EMAIL PROTECTED])
Re: Windows review (Adam Schuetze)
Re: linux on a 486 ([EMAIL PROTECTED])
Re: Linux for nitwits ([EMAIL PROTECTED])
Caulk Rocket gets SPNAKed!!! ("The PhantomAss")
Re: Windows 2000 sucks compared to linux ("Vann")
Re: Why is MS copying Sun??? ("Simon Cooke")
Re: Windows 2000 sucks compared to linux ("Adam Ruth")
Re: Why is MS copying Sun??? ("Simon Cooke")
Re: Linux Sux (kiwiunixman)
Segmentation fault (core dumped) ("news")
Uptimes ("Adam Ruth")
----------------------------------------------------------------------------
From: "Walton Simons" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Crossposted-To:
comp.os.ms-windows.nt.advocacy,comp.os.ms-windows.nt,comp.os.ms-windows.advocacy
Subject: Re: Windows 2000 sucks compared to linux
Date: Thu, 7 Dec 2000 22:16:48 -0500
If you want to have a decent, professional display and control over it, you
would get an SGI or a Mac. Windows provides no control over your display
whatsover, except for those pretty truetype fonts, which can be easily
installed under X in linux.
Chad Myers <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote in message
news:LdrX5.17272$[EMAIL PROTECTED]...
>
> "Vann" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote in message
> news:9feX5.4904$[EMAIL PROTECTED]...
> > In article <mt6X5.2408$[EMAIL PROTECTED]>, "Chad Myers"
> > <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> > >
> > > "Vann" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote in message
> > > news:eXVW5.4689$[EMAIL PROTECTED]...
> > >> In article <a3EW5.9418$[EMAIL PROTECTED]>, "Chad
Myers"
> > >> <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> > >> <snip my post>
> > >> >
> > >> > Or you can just get a real OS with a real windowing and display
> > >> > system that support advanced font rendering, color correction,
> > >> > aliasing or anti-, etc.
> > >> >
> > >> > -Chad
> > >> It infuriates me when I try to help a person and I receive a slap in
> > >> the face for it. You sir, disgust me.
> > >
> > > You weren't helping me. It appeared that someone was cracking on
Linux's
> > > poor display system and you, perhaps naievly, begain detailing the
> > > laborious process of attempting to get Linux to be a modern
> > > display-oriented OS.
> > >
> > > If you were sincerely trying to help him, then I apologize. However,
if
> > > you were really trying to help him get a better display, you would've
> > > told him to get a Mac or a Windows PC because Linux is years from
having
> > > a serious system for professional display and color correction.
> > >
> > > -Chad
> > Please don't put thought into my head. I am not one to question why he
> > was using linux. Maybe he likes being able to hack around with the
> > kernel. But, it is neither my position, nor yours, to claim he is
making
> > a mistake. The choice of what OS to use is an intimate one - one you
will
> > have to deal with every second the computer is used. If I demanded you
> > always buy a chevrolet instead of a ford because a chevrolet is
> > "technically superior", you'd probably chose to ignore me.
> > Personal computers are called such for a reason, you know.
>
> You can BS and wax philosophical all you want, but what it really comes
down
> to is, if you want to have a decent, professional display and control over
it,
> Linux would be the last choice.
>
> If you wanted to help him, you would've told him the truth.
>
> -Chad
>
>
------------------------------
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Subject: Re: linux on a 486
Date: Fri, 08 Dec 2000 03:08:16 GMT
In article <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>,
No-Spam wrote:
> On Thu, 30 Nov 2000 16:53:04 GMT,
> [EMAIL PROTECTED] <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> >In article <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>,
> > No-Spam wrote:
> >> On Tue, 28 Nov 2000 21:47:02 -0800, Micah Higgs
> >> <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> >> > is it possibul to put linux on a 486/66mhz with only
> >> > a floppy drive?
> >>
> >> Sure, I have it on my 386/sx25 mhz router right now.
> >>
> >> It boots from the floppy drive, and thats all it needs.
> >>
> >> On the other hand you may mean, 'can I install, Linux
> >> with only a floppy drive' ?
> >> The answer is yes to that as well.You can d/l a minimal
> >> floppy dist of Debian (www.debian.org) on 8 floppies
> >> (2.0.36 kernel), that will run on a 120 meg hdd,
> >> thats what Ive got on my spare which is an old 486/50.
> >
> >Yes, but what can be done with that minimal install?
> >Can you do more than edit files using vi?
>
> Yes I can telnet into a server :)
Oooooo!
> That router has only 8 megs of ram btw.
>
> > Frankly, Linux is a disk and memory hog when it
> > comes to the basic system requirements to be able
> > to do anything *with* Linux once you get it
> > installed. Sure, you can install it on just about
> > anything, but doing something with an install on
> > "just about anything" can be difficult.
>
> Ahh difficult is my middle name!
But not the middle name of a lot of newbie users...
> >> You can do just about anything with Linux
> >
> >No, the correct phrase is "you can install Linux on
> >just about anything. Whether you can do anything
> >with Linux on that system is another matter."
>
> Actually theyre BOTH correct.
>
> Forgive my enthuiasm, I have done many things with
> Linux boxes over the last three years, the last
> completed project was a generic eerom, microprocessor
> burner.
Your posting reminds me of something my mother-in-law
said (unlike the stereotype, we get along very well).
I had just been describing some technical problem I was
having on the home network, and she murmured to my wife
(who was standing nearby),
"I'd need ten years training just to start understanding
the problems he's having right now!"
Sent via Deja.com http://www.deja.com/
Before you buy.
------------------------------
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (Adam Schuetze)
Crossposted-To:
comp.os.ms-windows.advocacy,comp.os.ms-windows.nt.advocacy,comp.os.ms-windows.nt,comp.os.linux,comp.os.linux
Subject: Re: Windows review
Reply-To: adam at adam-schuetze dot org
Date: Fri, 08 Dec 2000 03:23:20 GMT
On Fri, 08 Dec 2000 03:14:57 GMT, Chris Ahlstrom <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>
> Naw... it is easy to type "ee filename.jpq" to view a JPEG file.
> In fact, "ee *.jpg" brings up a GUI with all the files ready for
> easy selection.
Hey cool! I didn't know about this. I have only ever done "ee
filename.jpg" and brought up a single window!
--
Adam Schuetze <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Get my pgp keys at http://www.adam-schuetze.org
- pgp fingerprints -
rsa: B8 80 DA D6 BB CA 80 5F C5 68 1C 08 FE 3E 65 1C
dss: 46 CB B3 C3 A1 C9 BA 57 7C B4 A1 6A BF 8F 2D 95 2B 7A 1D 77
------------------------------
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Subject: Re: linux on a 486
Date: Fri, 08 Dec 2000 03:19:27 GMT
In article <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>,
[EMAIL PROTECTED] (Marada C. Shradrakaii) wrote:
> > i have a 81 meg hard disk and only 2 megs of ram. i
> > would get more ram but it is the old 30 pin kind for
> > IBM type computers. dose anyone have this kind or know
> > how to get it cheap?
>
> That stuff I think is a PITA to get, and probably costs
> more than even the generic old-style memory, which is
> already pricey. I would tell you to go to junk stores--
> many of them will have a back end full of old x86 boxes.
> Careful selection can do you well. You may luck out and
> get a well-equipped 486 for under 10USD (as I did). I've
> even seen 486s with 8M of RAM and half-gig hard drives
> THROWN OUT.
I picked up three 100MHz Pentium machines with 16MB RAM,
800MB hard drives, and all the expansion cards, for about
$7.50US each at a local college surplus auction. Monitors
were a little more expensive, about $10-$15 each for five
15" monitors and a 17" monitor at $20 for my wife (she
plays SIMS in Windows all the time these days).
An important thing to remember when advising people with
older computers on how to upgrade is that some of the older
computers that use 30-pin SIMMS--and even some of the ones
which use 72-pin SIMMS--had BIOS limitations on the hard
drives you could put in them. An old 486 I installed Linux
on had a 1024 cylinder limit with no BIOS LBA mode. 1024
cylinders can really limit your hard drive capabilities.
Those old 386s make the process even harder, since they,
and even some 486s, have only one IDE channel. You can
get around this with SCSI (pricey, so not an option for
someone who can't upgrade to a 486 either), but the olden
day method was a proprietary CDROM drive plugged into its
own card or a soundcard. These are getting hard to find,
so what a 386 user might be limited to is one IDE channel
with a 500MB hard drive and whatever CDROM is plugged into
the slave part of the IDE channel. A bigger hard drive
system is possible with two hard drives, but only if the
spare desktop and network is present (see "user can't afford
to upgrade to a 486, above) so that a non-CDROM install can
be attempted.
Linux has great potential in the "giving computers to
the have-nots" area of the computer industry. Don't
automagically assume that people who have no money for
an upgrade "really don't care" about their computers.
Some of these people are willing to put in the work to
avoid having to wait months to finally afford a working
computer.
Sent via Deja.com http://www.deja.com/
Before you buy.
------------------------------
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Subject: Re: Linux for nitwits
Date: Fri, 08 Dec 2000 03:22:43 GMT
In article <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>,
bobh{at}haucks{dot}org wrote:
> On Sat, 02 Dec 2000 20:34:39 GMT, [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>
> >> Try blackbox,
> >
> >Blackbox has no background image capability, while
> >FVWM2/95 both have this option.
>
> In my other post I forgot to point out that this doesn't
> mean what you might think it means. All it means is that
> blackbox itself won't load a background image onto the root
> window and doesn't provide any tools to manage this. You
> can still use an external tool to do it though (e.g. xv or
> xsetroot). In fact, the majority of blackbox themes do
> seem to include a background image.
>
> I don't like background images myself, but I'm apparently
> a minority.
I happen to have a nifty one I used script-fu and GIMP to
create, to piss off a certain Linux teacher of mine this
semester. It says, in letters of burning fire,
VI VI VI
The Number Of
The Beast
Frankly, I've never really enjoyed a background image more
than this one. :)
Sent via Deja.com http://www.deja.com/
Before you buy.
------------------------------
From: "The PhantomAss" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Crossposted-To:
comp.os.ms-windows.nt.advocacy,comp.os.ms-windows.nt,comp.os.ms-windows,comp.os.ms-windows.advocacy,comp.os.linux,alt.timothy.sutter,alt.non.sequitur,alt.discordia,alt.slack,alt.satanism,alt.alien.vampire.flonk.flonk.flonk,alt.fan.k
Subject: Caulk Rocket gets SPNAKed!!!
Date: Thu, 7 Dec 2000 22:28:19 -0500
to moooooo!!! or not to moooooo!!!, this is the question.
blargh
------------------------------
From: "Vann" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: Re: Windows 2000 sucks compared to linux
Crossposted-To:
comp.os.ms-windows.nt.advocacy,comp.os.ms-windows.nt,comp.os.ms-windows.advocacy
Date: Fri, 08 Dec 2000 03:38:28 GMT
In article <LdrX5.17272$[EMAIL PROTECTED]>, "Chad Myers"
<[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>
> "Vann" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote in message
> news:9feX5.4904$[EMAIL PROTECTED]...
>> In article <mt6X5.2408$[EMAIL PROTECTED]>, "Chad Myers"
>> <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>> >
>> > "Vann" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote in message
>> > news:eXVW5.4689$[EMAIL PROTECTED]...
>> >> In article <a3EW5.9418$[EMAIL PROTECTED]>, "Chad
>> >> Myers"
>> >> <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>> >> <snip my post>
>> >> >
>> >> > Or you can just get a real OS with a real windowing and display
>> >> > system that support advanced font rendering, color correction,
>> >> > aliasing or anti-, etc.
>> >> >
>> >> > -Chad
>> >> It infuriates me when I try to help a person and I receive a slap in
>> >> the face for it. You sir, disgust me.
>> >
>> > You weren't helping me. It appeared that someone was cracking on
>> > Linux's poor display system and you, perhaps naievly, begain
>> > detailing the laborious process of attempting to get Linux to be a
>> > modern display-oriented OS.
>> >
>> > If you were sincerely trying to help him, then I apologize. However,
>> > if you were really trying to help him get a better display, you
>> > would've told him to get a Mac or a Windows PC because Linux is years
>> > from having a serious system for professional display and color
>> > correction.
>> >
>> > -Chad
>> Please don't put thought into my head. I am not one to question why he
>> was using linux. Maybe he likes being able to hack around with the
>> kernel. But, it is neither my position, nor yours, to claim he is
>> making a mistake. The choice of what OS to use is an intimate one -
>> one you will have to deal with every second the computer is used. If I
>> demanded you always buy a chevrolet instead of a ford because a
>> chevrolet is
>> "technically superior", you'd probably chose to ignore me.
>> Personal computers are called such for a reason, you know.
>
> You can BS and wax philosophical all you want, but what it really comes
> down to is, if you want to have a decent, professional display and
> control over it, Linux would be the last choice.
>
> If you wanted to help him, you would've told him the truth.
>
> -Chad
I probably shouldn't be responding to this, but oh well. I, personally,
can't stand Windows. I know over a dozen people who, in my village ( Yes,
village, about 1,000 people ), who use linux without a problem. I know
its weaknessess, but I also know its strengths. For me, PERSONALLY, the
strengths outweigh the weaknessess. Unlike you, I don't have the gall to
tell another person what his personal choice is. I don't give a rat's ass
if he uses Windows, Linux, FreeBSD, MacOS, QNX, whatever floats his boat.
He had problems with linux, I helped him with those problems. That's all
I did. You can mock his choice until the cows come up, but it is just
that, his choice. Stop trying to claim some sort of victory with such
subjective criteria.
------------------------------
From: "Simon Cooke" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Crossposted-To: comp.os.ms-windows.nt.advocacy,comp.lang.java.advocacy
Subject: Re: Why is MS copying Sun???
Date: Fri, 08 Dec 2000 03:41:22 GMT
"T. Max Devlin" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote in message
news:[EMAIL PROTECTED]...
> Said Simon Cooke in comp.os.linux.advocacy on Mon, 04 Dec 2000 11:17:12
> >"Ketil Z Malde" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote in message
> >news:[EMAIL PROTECTED]...
> >> "Chad C. Mulligan" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes:
> >>
> >> >>> Are you psychic or psychotic?
> >>
> >> >> You don't have to be either, just a bit less than dim-witted. If
you
> >> >> use e.g. SGML for your data format, it isn't very hard to be forward
> >> >> compatible.
> >>
> >> > But that isn't the case, and IIRC nobody is doing that.
> >>
> >> Yes, a lot of people use closed and proprietary data formats, since
> >> they then get an interface they're used to. Not everybody,though.
> >>
> >> It's not a technical problem, though, the lack of forward
> >> compatibility is either due to
> >>
> >> a) incompetence and short-sightedness
> >> b) wishing to lock in users and force software upgrades
> >> c) malice
> >>
> >> In most cases, I'd be inclined to suggest a). Feel free to make up
> >> your own mind.
> >
> >You forgot:
> >
> >d) business, time-to-market and cost constraints.
>
> While 'a' is second-guessing, and 'c' is double-checking, 'b' is a
> certainty and an anticompetitive (and thus illegal) mechanism. Simon's
> 'd', obviously, is an empty charade to mask 'b', when intentionally used
> to monopolize.
We've had this argument before, and you still plainly don't understand the
business side of software development, so stop making a fool of yourself.
Simoin
------------------------------
From: "Adam Ruth" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Crossposted-To:
comp.os.ms-windows.nt.advocacy,comp.os.ms-windows.nt,comp.os.ms-windows,comp.os.ms-windows.advocacy
Subject: Re: Windows 2000 sucks compared to linux
Date: Thu, 7 Dec 2000 20:40:05 -0700
Strange, Microsoft consultants built them....
"Mike V." <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote in message
news:[EMAIL PROTECTED]...
> On Thu, 7 Dec 2000 13:17:25 -0700, "Adam Ruth" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> posted :
>
> >You should have read the whole thread, I'll repeat:
> >
> >>>>>>>>>>>>> Original Post
> >I've been involved with the set up of more than 200 NT Servers, about 5
2000
> >Servers, and 5 Linux Servers. Most of the NT Servers were at a bank (I
was
> >on their Y2K project).
> >
> >Not 1 of the NT Servers was up more than 6 weeks.
>
> They weren't built right.
------------------------------
From: "Simon Cooke" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Crossposted-To: comp.os.ms-windows.nt.advocacy,comp.lang.java.advocacy
Subject: Re: Why is MS copying Sun???
Date: Fri, 08 Dec 2000 03:42:44 GMT
"T. Max Devlin" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote in message
news:[EMAIL PROTECTED]...
> >This would be true even if
> >that company did nothing wrong yet. In 1903, the Wright Brothers
> >were monopolists becuase they built 100% of the working flying
> >machines in the world, at least according to your definition.
>
> "The Wright Brothers" wasn't a profit-seeking company, precisely. Try
> to stick to the real world, please.
Try Netscape then. They gave their browser away for free, and then started
charging for it after they'd already built up their monopoly.
Simon
------------------------------
From: kiwiunixman <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: Re: Linux Sux
Date: Fri, 08 Dec 2000 03:43:46 GMT
Wazoo is a colloquial word meaning, bottom (or in the US, Fanny), hence,
it (Swango) is trying to say Linux sux the big ass, question is what ass?
kiwiunixman
JM wrote:
> On Thu, 07 Dec 2000 09:01:07 GMT, in comp.os.linux.advocacy,
> ("Tom Wilson" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>) wrote:
>
>
>> That's the only time it ever goes down though <g>
>>
>>
>> "Swango" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote in message
>> news:[EMAIL PROTECTED]...
>>
>>> Linux Sux the big wazoo......Linux Sux the big wazoo......Linux Sux
>>> the big wazoo......Linux Sux the big wazoo......Linux Sux the big
>>> wazoo......Linux Sux the big wazoo......Linux Sux the big
>>
>
> What the fuck's "the big wazoo"?
>
> And why does everyone responding quote the entire thing?
------------------------------
From: "news" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: Segmentation fault (core dumped)
Date: Fri, 8 Dec 2000 12:25:59 +0900
While working on a project ( which I thought to be quite small ) I have
received this message:
Segmentation fault (core dumped)
Everything compiled okay. This happened as a result of a.out
I was wondering if someone could point out to me what I should be looking
for that might cause such a message.
Thanks in advance.
Joarder
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
------------------------------
From: "Adam Ruth" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Crossposted-To: comp.os.ms-windows.advocacy,comp.os.ms-windows.nt.advocacy
Subject: Uptimes
Date: Thu, 7 Dec 2000 20:51:33 -0700
Where can I find some hard numbers about the best and mena uptimes of NT and
Linux? I have my own experience, which I'm sure varies from others. I have
Netcraft numbers which don't show NT 4 and W2K hasn't been around long
enough fro some good numbers.
I keep seeing this debate and they always end up with someone saying, "My
machine has been up for x months!". Which someone promptly replies,
"B.S.!". So has there been any research in this area?
Adam Ruth
------------------------------
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